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Guns allowed in Arizona bars starting Wednesday

Ikari said:
I really wish people would stop using this. That's not a restriction. I don't need to get a permit to say "fire". Yelling fire in a crowded theater is illegal because it directly leads to a panic in which people can be injured. You are therefore infringing upon their rights. That being illegal is not a restriction on free speech, but rather a demonstration of the one limit to our rights; we may not infringe upon the rights of others.
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So would waving a gun around in a bar be okay even though it scares the **** out patrons?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
How so? Your position makes no sense.
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Because cops can stop ANYONE they think that has been drinking from a bar and check to see if they have a concealed weapon on them even when they don't. If you can't understand that, noone can help you.
 
ewm90 said:
Its not going to be fun for the bar keeper sweeping bodies from the bar and patching up built holes in the walls.

People are barded from driving drunk. but not for having a gun wile drunk grate plain.

Another day for liberty over logic.
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People are not barred from having a six pack on the passenger seat.



Emotionalism is really not a good debate style. :shrug:
 
TheNextEra said:
Because cops can stop ANYONE they think that has been drinking from a bar and check to see if they have a concealed weapon on them even when they don't. If you can't understand that, noone can help you.
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They can already, the gun is irrellevant.
 
ewm90 said:
Its not going to be fun for the bar keeper sweeping bodies from the bar and patching up built holes in the walls.

People are barded from driving drunk. but not for having a gun wile drunk grate plain.

Another day for liberty over logic.
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Jesus tap dancing Christ. This is as bad as the terrorist arguments for expansion of the government. Allow people to set the rules on their property and all of a sudden bar tenders will be sweeping bodies from the bar and patching up holes! Run everybody, run for your lives; we're allowing people to exercise their rights!!!!!! Everybody FREAK OUT! Quick before someone says anything sensible!
 
Goobieman said:
Where did this nonsense that we can, somehow, pre-empt crime by assuming that everyone will commit a crime come from?
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it's not nonsense. how many gun deaths does japan record?
 
winston53660 said:
So would waving a gun around in a bar be okay even though it scares the **** out patrons?
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You're not waving a gun around. It's concealed. For the love of Christ people.
 
liblady said:
it's not nonsense. how many gun deaths does japan record?
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How many suicides does it have? I mean, why cherry pick stats here. Japan can do as they like, that's their government and their problem to deal with. In America we've based our Republic on the rights and liberties of the individual which include but are not limited to the right to keep and bear arms.
 
liblady said:
it's not nonsense. how many gun deaths does japan record?
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It -is- nonsense.
Assuming that everyone will commit a crime and acting accordingly quashes liberty and creates a police state.

Here, its called "prior restraint"
 
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Ikari said:
How many suicides does it have? I mean, why cherry pick stats here. Japan can do as they like, that's their government and their problem to deal with. In America we've based our Republic on the rights and liberties of the individual which include but are not limited to the right to keep and bear arms.
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i'm not cherry picking. we can discuss any nation that has strict gun laws, which to me assumes a certain number of people will commit gun crimes if they are allowed to carry guns, hence the strict gun laws.

why do you need a gun in a bar?
 
winston53660 said:
What law is to stop someone from doing that?
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Well ****! I can incite to riot, so let's just make people get permits for what they are going to say. I mean, we don't want riots right? And well people can conceal drugs on their person or property so let's just get rid of this protection against unreasonable searches and seizure. I mean, maybe they have guns too. Guns are bad right, search search search. Slander and libel, all speeches and articles must first be reviewed and edited by a government censor...how's that one?

So long as we're doing stupid hypotheticals, let's just go ahead and get them all out there. Someone may wave a gun around. Well then that guy is in trouble. If you threaten people with a gun, that's not within the boundaries of the law. Can we think things through before we post?
 
you can't say how it would have been any different if people carried guns.
 
liblady said:
i'm not cherry picking. we can discuss any nation that has strict gun laws, which to me assumes a certain number of people will commit gun crimes if they are allowed to carry guns, hence the strict gun laws.

why do you need a gun in a bar?
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Why is it your business? If the owner of the property wishes to allow people to carry guns if they wish, what business is it of yours? Don't go to the bar if you are scared.
 
Ikari said:
Well ****! I can incite to riot, so let's just make people get permits for what they are going to say. I mean, we don't want riots right? And well people can conceal drugs on their person or property so let's just get rid of this protection against unreasonable searches and seizure. I mean, maybe they have guns too. Guns are bad right, search search search. Slander and libel, all speeches and articles must first be reviewed and edited by a government censor...how's that one?

So long as we're doing stupid hypotheticals, let's just go ahead and get them all out there. Someone may wave a gun around. Well then that guy is in trouble. If you threaten people with a gun, that's not within the boundaries of the law. Can we think things through before we post?
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I guess you have never been a bartender and seen how stupid people are when they are drunk.
 
winston53660 said:
I guess you have never been a bartender and seen how stupid people are when they are drunk.
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And if they're drunk, waving a gun around...Well first, there could be someone sober to stop them. Second, they're in serious ****.
 
liblady said:
i'm not cherry picking. we can discuss any nation that has strict gun laws, which to me assumes a certain number of people will commit gun crimes if they are allowed to carry guns, hence the strict gun laws.
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What % of CCW holders commit gun-related crimes?
 
Ikari said:
And if they're drunk, waving a gun around...Well first, there could be someone sober to stop them. Second, they're in serious ****.
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I would advocate mandatory searches for any one entering my bar in the absence of a no carry law. Just another pain in the ass for me while I try to conduct business.
 
winston53660 said:
I would advocate mandatory searches for any one entering my bar in the absence of a no carry law. Just another pain in the ass for me while I try to conduct business.
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I would to, but only for the hot chicks.... I will take this on personally. :thumbs:
 
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