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Must-know figures could change for Texas students

OxymoronP said:
Most of the education should happen at home.

When I gradute and become a teacher, I will base my approach on home reading and research and lively debate, role playing, and speeches during class. If Kids show that they are reading and researching I will lay of the tests.
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Oh yeah, the best teachers I had in history had extensive lists of books to read on subjects to get the context we could not get into in class. If I ever had the chance to go back to college, History is one of the two subjects I would be interested in studying.

The problem of course is that not many students actually do that kind of reading, which is too bad. Those without a real interest will always do the minimum necessary to get by.
 
Redress said:
You sir, are not supposed to agree with me...
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Sorry! Just can't help it this time...:2wave:

There's just no room in a secondary school history classes for people. There's only room for events.
 
Redress said:
The problem of course is that not many students actually do that kind of reading, which is too bad. Those without a real interest will always do the minimum necessary to get by.
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I agree that this is true, and that's also why I believe such "students" should be failed. Too many slip through the cracks these days... the fact is that college degrees are handed out too easy. People who are unwilling to actually put any real effort into learning should go on to do something else (for both their own good & every one else's). I really don't see that happening as much as it should these days.

Like much else these days, it seems that people expect a reward without any real effort, and our society now encourages this more than ever.
 
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apdst said:
Sorry! Just can't help it this time...:2wave:

There's just no room in a secondary school history classes for people. There's only room for events.
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People make events. I cannot imagine teaching US history without Washington, or Jefferson, or Lincoln, or Roosevelt, or even Reagan. And that is just presidents. There are a ton of people important enough to be an integral part of a public education class.
 
other said:
I agree that this is true, and that's also why I believe such "students" should be failed. Too many slip through the cracks these days... the fact is that college degrees are handed out too easy. People who are unwilling to actually put any real effort into learning should go on to do something else (for both their own good & every one else's). I really don't see that happening as much as it should these days.
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College degrees I do not know about, since I dropped out after one year of college, but I do think that it would be worth it to increase High School graduation requirements.
 
Redress said:
College degrees I do not know about, since I dropped out after one year of college, but I do think that it would be worth it to increase High School graduation requirements.
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I think it would help if they simply made college degrees less easy to obtain without actually putting forth serious effort. (not that you didn't, I don't want you to misinterpret what I'm saying...I don't know your particular circumstances)

This would make college degrees more of a commodity, and actually increase the value of high school diplomas as well. And vocational training, which is just as vital.

Sometimes I get the suspicion that the current system's become a racket to make state-run colleges more income. More quantity, less quality. These days, I don't think that level of education has anything at all to do with level or intelligence or capability.
 
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Redress said:
People make events. I cannot imagine teaching US history without Washington, or Jefferson, or Lincoln, or Roosevelt, or even Reagan. And that is just presidents. There are a ton of people important enough to be an integral part of a public education class.
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People are connected to those events and are worth mention, along with teaching students what those events are and, mor importantly, why those events are important.

Of course, when mentionaing the authoring the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson's name will undoubtedly come into the mix, the same with Abe Lincoln, when talking about the Civil War and Andrew Volstead, when talking about Prohibition. However, people who weren't connect with historically significant events don't rate a mention.
 
apdst said:
People are connected to those events and are worth mention, along with teaching students what those events are and, mor importantly, why those events are important.

Of course, when mentionaing the authoring the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson's name will undoubtedly come into the mix, the same with Abe Lincoln, when talking about the Civil War and Andrew Volstead, when talking about Prohibition. However, people who weren't connect with historically significant events don't rate a mention.
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I think the difference between us here is that I see people driving events, while you see events driving people.
 
Redress said:
I think the difference between us here is that I see people driving events, while you see events driving people.
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Events do drive people. Lincoln didn't start the Civil War. He would have never dreamed of issueing the Emancipation Proclamation, had it not been for the war. He probably wouldn't have been assassinated, if not for the war. American citizens would have never been subjected to harsh military rule, if not for Lincoln's assassination. You can talk about Lincoln being the president when the Civil War started and issueing the Emancipation Proclamation till the cows come home, but it doesn't address why these events are important historical mile-stones.
 
apdst said:
Events do drive people. Lincoln didn't start the Civil War. He would have never dreamed of issueing the Emancipation Proclamation, had it not been for the war. He probably wouldn't have been assassinated, if not for the war. American citizens would have never been subjected to harsh military rule, if not for Lincoln's assassination. You can talk about Lincoln being the president when the Civil War started and issueing the Emancipation Proclamation till the cows come home, but it doesn't address why these events are important historical mile-stones.
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This is getting off topic, but the Civil war happened because of the actions of people. The Civil War was won because of the actions of Lincoln, and Grant, and numerous others.

Both points of view are valid in their way, they are just different ways of looking at history.
 
Redress said:
This is getting off topic, but the Civil war happened because of the actions of people. The Civil War was won because of the actions of Lincoln, and Grant, and numerous others.

Both points of view are valid in their way, they are just different ways of looking at history.
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Yes, but not because of the actions of Abraham Lincoln. When talking about the Civil War, no one even knows of John Breckinridge
 
Redress said:
I worry for this country when deciding who should be in history and social study books becomes a partisan issue.
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I think must know figures other than historical figures should include those that represent them starting with their city counselors all the way up to their governor and then senator, congressmen, vice president and president and maybe the line of succession.
 
apdst said:
Yes, but not because of the actions of Abraham Lincoln. When talking about the Civil War, no one even knows of John Breckinridge
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I knew John Breckinridge.
 
Eh, Texas do your worst. American history is taught so badly as it is in this country that it will be hard for them to make it any worse.

And as I suspected:

The distinction has no impact on classroom time because teachers make their own plans, but teachers are guided by the board's standards, so could emphasize or de-emphasize historical figures in class depending on what the board says.
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Must-know figures could change for Texas students - Kansas City Star

It's like Kansas.
 
Redress said:
I worry for this country when deciding who should be in history and social study books becomes a partisan issue.
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As long as they focus on Conservatives and learn the Conservative message it's OK.

If/when they have to learn the Liberal message I'll have a problem with such changes.
 
Jerry said:
As long as they focus on Conservatives and learn the Conservative message it's OK.

If/when they have to learn the Liberal message I'll have a problem with such changes.
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Ever thought maybe to let them choose themselves instead of indoctrinating them?

Seriously, it was not long ago.. in fact a week ago, that conservatives were all up in arms for Obama trying to "indoctrinate" their children with his values, and yet here you have 2 states that are forcing right wing indoctrination down the throats of children and young people, instead of letting these young people decide for themselves..

talk about hypocrisy.... gezzz
 
PeteEU said:
Ever thought maybe to let them choose themselves instead of indoctrinating them?

Seriously, it was not long ago.. in fact a week ago, that conservatives were all up in arms for Obama trying to "indoctrinate" their children with his values, and yet here you have 2 states that are forcing right wing indoctrination down the throats of children and young people, instead of letting these young people decide for themselves..

talk about hypocrisy.... gezzz
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:rofl "Right wing indoctrination"

You really have no clue what you're talking about.
 
PeteEU said:
Ever thought maybe to let them choose themselves instead of indoctrinating them?

Seriously, it was not long ago.. in fact a week ago, that conservatives were all up in arms for Obama trying to "indoctrinate" their children with his values, and yet here you have 2 states that are forcing right wing indoctrination down the throats of children and young people, instead of letting these young people decide for themselves..

talk about hypocrisy.... gezzz
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I would rather teach them the historical facts; ones that actually exist, not the ones that revisionist Libbo historians have chosen.
 
Redress said:
I worry for this country when deciding who should be in history and social study books becomes a partisan issue.
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So, you've been worring about it for the last 40 years or so - right?

Can anyone tell me what wrong with describing the US as a republic rather than a democracy?
 
PeteEU said:
Ever thought maybe to let them choose themselves instead of indoctrinating them?
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I have, and I think liberalism should be all but eradicated. We will still need a few token kooks so that we never forget why we avoid liberalism, but other than that liberalism should be put down like a dog.

PeteEU said:
Seriously, it was not long ago.. in fact a week ago, that conservatives were all up in arms for Obama trying to "indoctrinate" their children with his values, and yet here you have 2 states that are forcing right wing indoctrination down the throats of children and young people, instead of letting these young people decide for themselves.
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You're confusing "conservative" with "republican".

Liberal republicans want religion taught in the classroom.

Liberal democrats want how-to sex-ed in kindergarten.

It is always conservative democrats and conservative republicans who compromise the fastest and come to the most reasonable agreements.
 
apdst said:
I would rather teach them the historical facts; ones that actually exist, not the ones that revisionist Libbo historians have chosen.
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Only liberals try to revise history.
 
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