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Obama scraps Bush-era missile defense for new plan

Goobieman said:
These questions proceed from a false premise -- that a threat must actually exist before the defense for tha threat can be developed and/or deployed.
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So then we should also prepare and defend against the space aliens? Or the Mole people?
 
winston53660 said:
So then we should also prepare and defend against the space aliens? Or the Mole people?
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Unless you can show that we know space aliens are presently working on weapons systems that can threaten us and/or our allies, your question is a non-sequitur -- and a really sad attempt to refute the irrefutable.
 
75Greeno said:
have you been playing mech quest a little to much?;)
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No such thing. And hey, if you were on the battle field and saw a ginormous mech walking at you, wouldn't you run away? Less I was on Team Dia Gurren, I'd be running; that's for sure.
 
Goobieman said:
Unless you can show that we know space aliens are presently working on weapons systems that can threaten us and/or our allies, your question is a non-sequitur -- and a really sad attempt to refute the irrefutable.
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So what weapon systems that Iran is working threaten us? I think they are a long way from ICBMs
 
Ikari said:
Pffft, it's still inferior to my plan...which has mechs.
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A couple o' BattleMasters on the border would cause anyone to think twice.
 
PogueMoran said:
Information and material being two different things. They may have the information but thus far we haven't seen anything to show that they have been successful in making weapons grade fission material
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So because we don't have physical proof that they have completed such a task already, that means that there is no likelihood that they will complete such a task at any point in the future?

Personally, I think a confirmation from the IAEA that they have the capability to develop it and are seeking to develop the necessary missile delivery program should be indications that they're not being exactly aboveboard on this one.
 
winston53660 said:
So what weapon systems that Iran is working threaten us? I think they are a long way from ICBMs
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I said "threaten ur or our allies", and as such they need not have to have a true ICBM, just one that can reach Europe.

That is, after all, the subject under discussion here - missile defense in Europe.

And, like I mentioned before, given the damage potential of the weapons in question, prudence demands that you stay ahead of the capabilities of your foe -- and so, the weapons they have NOW doesnt mean anything.
 
RightinNYC said:
So because we don't have physical proof that they have completed such a task already, that means that there is no likelihood that they will complete such a task at any point in the future?

Personally, I think a confirmation from the IAEA that they have the capability to develop it and are seeking to develop the necessary missile delivery program should be indications that they're not being exactly aboveboard on this one.
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Any kid on the internet could find the information to make a dirty bomb but the question is do they have the expertise and materials to make it. Also the IAEA hasn't confirmed they have any delivery capabilities as of yet.
 
Its no secret that Iran continues to develop longer and longer range missile technology. Its also no secret that they are succeeding.
 
PogueMoran said:
Any kid on the internet could find the information to make a dirty bomb
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Who said anything about dirty bombs?? Another red-herring from you.

but the question is do they have the expertise and materials to make it.
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YES. You've been given the links to it. 6 months to a few years and they would have a bomb. And that's assuming that aren't already researching and developing now

Also the IAEA hasn't confirmed they have any delivery capabilities as of yet.
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source? Is this an argument from silence?
 
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scourge99 said:
Who said anything about dirty bombs?? Another red-herring from you.

YES. You've been given the links to it. 6 months to a few years.

source?
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It was a comparison. Having information and knowing how to use it are two different things.
It was on Right's source saying they haven't been able to confirm if they have delivery capabilities. There's also information that the documents about Iran's "nuclear program" are forged.
 
RightinNYC said:
So because we don't have physical proof that they have completed such a task already, that means that there is no likelihood that they will complete such a task at any point in the future?

Personally, I think a confirmation from the IAEA that they have the capability to develop it and are seeking to develop the necessary missile delivery program should be indications that they're not being exactly aboveboard on this one.
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No, no... you need to wait until there is a smoking radioactive crater where a Western city once stood before you can even begin to argue that you need to build defenses.
 
We need to elect a republican president in 2012, just to undo crap like this.

.
 
scourge99 said:
red herring. Nuclear power plants do not make weapons grade material when generating electricity. No one claimed they did. Theproblem is Iran is enriching its own material even though they were given international guarantees of being provided nuclear fuel if they would not produce it themselves. They refused. Ever wonder why?

you are dead wrong. They have every ability to make it if they choose
IAEA Chief: Iran Could Make Nuke In 6 Months - wcbstv.com
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No one claimed they did? So it was your twin that said this on the first page?

"they have a nuclear power plant that is capable of producing weapons grade material"

scourge99 said:
And their are many open questions about why highly enriched particles were found:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-5-13-iran-nuclear_x.htm
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Link doesn't open

scourge99 said:
cry me a river, build me a bridge, and get over it.
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I don't need to cry I'm not the one trembling in fear about mushroom clouds
 
PogueMoran said:
Any kid on the internet could find the information to make a dirty bomb but the question is do they have the expertise and materials to make it. Also the IAEA hasn't confirmed they have any delivery capabilities as of yet.
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Yes, I'm sure that the IAEA is there because they're concerned that they might download the instructions for how to make a dirty bomb off the internet. There can't possibly be anything else there that's concerning, nor can they be farther along than that.
 
RightinNYC said:
Yes, I'm sure that the IAEA is there because they're concerned that they might download the instructions for how to make a dirty bomb off the internet. There can't possibly be anything else there that's concerning, nor can they be farther along than that.
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Did you read your article. It clearly stated they had the information but I didn't hear much in regards to materials, expertise, etc. Also no delivery capability that they could confirm. They're a while off. Besides Israel can't seem to make up their mind about Iran and they're neighbors. Saying anywhere from 5 years to a few months to them having no capability
 
It really does continue to amaze me the lengths to which people will go give brutal dictatorships a pass in order to make their partisan side look better.

PogueMoran, be honest. Do you think they're not actually working on a bomb and a means to deliver it? Honestly?
 
PogueMoran said:
It was on Right's source saying they haven't been able to confirm if they have delivery capabilities.
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nor can they deny.

There's also information that the documents about Iran's "nuclear program" are forged.
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which documents? All you have is bald faced assertions.
 
Harshaw said:
It really does continue to amaze me the lengths to which people will go give brutal dictatorships a pass in order to make their partisan side look better.

PogueMoran, be honest. Do you think they're not actually working on a bomb and a means to deliver it? Honestly?
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I'll bet $5:

"Absent any direct evidence, the only honest opinion I can have is that I do not know".

Takers?
 
Goobieman said:
I'll bet $5:

"Absent any direct evidence, the only honest opinion I can have is that I do not know".

Takers?
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Well, obviously, that won't be his answer now.

It never ceases to amaze me, though, that people who say this kind of thing also take it for granted that Israel has nukes.
 
Harshaw said:
It really does continue to amaze me the lengths to which people will go give brutal dictatorships a pass in order to make their partisan side look better.

PogueMoran, be honest. Do you think they're not actually working on a bomb and a means to deliver it? Honestly?
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Honestly, I think we should worry more about the people who recently acquired them than Iran. Most people think their president is crazy, and he is, but he holds no power. With Israel next door with Nukes they're pretty kept in check. Also they're less of a threat than say China who could strike our western seaboard. Iran is years off and doesn't have ICBM capabilities.
 
Goobieman said:
I'll bet $5:

"Absent any direct evidence, the only honest opinion I can have is that I do not know".

Takers?
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You should try not guessing what other people say after the other debate where you totally stopped talking after creating a logical fallacy. We're talking about what's realistic here and what is realistic is they do not have the long range capabilities or the nukes to threaten the US
 
PogueMoran said:
Honestly, I think we should worry more about the people who recently acquired them than Iran. Most people think their president is crazy, and he is, but he holds no power. With Israel next door with Nukes they're pretty kept in check. Also they're less of a threat than say China who could strike our western seaboard. Iran is years off and doesn't have ICBM capabilities.
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So, that's a yes, they are working on it?
 
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