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Presidential Address

akyron said:
That assessment is a bit premature. Time will certainly tell though.
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It's not premature, Joe Garbage did not acknowledge that he was wrong. Only for spewing in an inappropriate setting.


And, he was wrong.
 
jackalope said:
It's not premature, Joe Garbage did not acknowledge that he was wrong. Only for spewing in an inappropriate setting.


And, he was wrong.
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We dont know he was wrong because the bill has not yet been implemented.
Time will tell.

Congressional Research Service: Illegal Aliens Can Receive Benefits Under House Health Care Bill

"Treatment of Noncitizens in H.R. 3200, states definitively, "H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitizens - whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently - participating in the Exchange." H.R. 3200 establishes a Health Insurance Exchange which would provide individuals and small businesses with access to health care plans, including the "public option" to be managed by the government."
 
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jackalope said:
It's not premature, Joe Garbage did not acknowledge that he was wrong. Only for spewing in an inappropriate setting.


And, he was wrong.
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How is he wrong? Can you link us to Obama's plan and show us where it clearly states that illegals aren't covered?
 
Taylor said:
How is he wrong? Can you link us to Obama's plan and show us where it clearly states that illegals aren't covered?
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Can't show in the bill where space aliens are not covered either, but I bet they aren't.
 
Redress said:
Can't show in the bill where space aliens are not covered either, but I bet they aren't.
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That makes no sense.

If it's a health care bill, it better state who qualifies.
 
Taylor said:
That makes no sense.

If it's a health care bill, it better state who qualifies.
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You are starting to confuse people with that common sense. Take it easy.
 
Cilogy said:
Obama was talking about how illegal immigrants would not be insured and some idiot said "You lie!"

Gotta love those confused conservatives.
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Kinda funny that the guy who yelled "you lie"....was the biggest friggin liar of them all. North Carolina should hold this LIAR to task for being the liar that he is.

N.C. Republican Rep.-turned-heckler Joe Wilson who loudly yelled "You lie!" after the president said health care reform wouldn't cover illegal immigrants. The moment threw Obama off track, if briefly. Michelle Obama was reported to have shaken her head in dismay from her seat.Wilson quickly apologized in a statement to CNN, saying, "I let my emotions get the best of me


You can't simply be a LIAR and then apologize and all is forgiven. Joe Wilson is a Liar and should be voted out by North Carolina for being the liar that he isl.
 
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akyron said:
We dont know he was wrong because the bill has not yet been implemented.
Time will tell.

Congressional Research Service: Illegal Aliens Can Receive Benefits Under House Health Care Bill

"Treatment of Noncitizens in H.R. 3200, states definitively, "H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitizens - whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently - participating in the Exchange." H.R. 3200 establishes a Health Insurance Exchange which would provide individuals and small businesses with access to health care plans, including the "public option" to be managed by the government."
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Taylor said:
How is he wrong? Can you link us to Obama's plan and show us where it clearly states that illegals aren't covered?
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Taylor said:
That makes no sense.

If it's a health care bill, it better state who qualifies.
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MISREPRESENTATION TWO: Illegal Immigrants Will Receive Free Health Insurance, Paid for by Taxpayers.
FACT CHECK: Absolutely False - Illegal Immigrants Will NOT Get Free Coverage.
􀀹
“Pants on Fire” From PolitiFact.com. This one gets another “pants on fire” rating from Politifact.com. FactCheck.org confirms there will be “no federal subsidies for you if you’re in the country illegally.” The independent organization goes on to note that “illegal immigrants aren’t eligible for federal health programs under current law.” [Politifact.com, 7/28/09; FactCheck.org, 7/23/09]
􀀹
Both House and Senate Health Insurance Reform Explicitly Ban Coverage for Illegal Immigrants. Page 143 of the House bill explicitly prohibits federal payments for “undocumented aliens.” Specifically, the bill states, “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.” Page 111 of the HELP bill defines those who are eligible for premium credits as “a citizen or national of the United States or an alien lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence or an alien lawfully present in the United States.” [H.R. 3200; Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions bill]

http://dpc.senate.gov/reform/reform-factcheck-081409.pdf



Yes, it is wrong. Republicans need to quit lying.
 
disneydude said:
Kinda funny that the guy who yelled "you lie"....was the biggest friggin liar of them all. North Carolina should hold this LIAR to task for being the liar that he is.

N.C. Republican Rep.-turned-heckler Joe Wilson who loudly yelled "You lie!" after the president said health care reform wouldn't cover illegal immigrants. The moment threw Obama off track, if briefly. Michelle Obama was reported to have shaken her head in dismay from her seat.Wilson quickly apologized in a statement to CNN, saying, "I let my emotions get the best of me


You can't simply be a LIAR and then apologize and all is forgiven. Joe Wilson is a Liar and should be voted out by North Carolina for being the liar that he isl.
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South Carolina .... home of Mark Sanford and Jim Demint and Eric Cantor ;)
I think he'll be re=elected.


oops, scratch that, not Eric Cantor
 
jackalope said:
MISREPRESENTATION TWO: Illegal Immigrants Will Receive Free Health Insurance, Paid for by Taxpayers.
FACT CHECK: Absolutely False - Illegal Immigrants Will NOT Get Free Coverage.

“Pants on Fire” From PolitiFact.com. This one gets another “pants on fire” rating from Politifact.com. FactCheck.org confirms there will be “no federal subsidies for you if you’re in the country illegally.” The independent organization goes on to note that “illegal immigrants aren’t eligible for federal health programs under current law.” [Politifact.com, 7/28/09; FactCheck.org, 7/23/09]

Both House and Senate Health Insurance Reform Explicitly Ban Coverage for Illegal Immigrants. Page 143 of the House bill explicitly prohibits federal payments for “undocumented aliens.” Specifically, the bill states, “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.” Page 111 of the HELP bill defines those who are eligible for premium credits as “a citizen or national of the United States or an alien lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence or an alien lawfully present in the United States.” [H.R. 3200; Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions bill]

http://dpc.senate.gov/reform/reform-factcheck-081409.pdf

Yes, it is wrong. Republicans need to quit lying.
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CRS analysis

"The CRS analysis comes after weeks of denials by Members of Congress that illegal aliens could receive benefits under the House bill. These denials were echoed by countless media and health care "experts" who dismissed public concerns as myths, or as politically orchestrated attacks.


"Case closed. Illegal aliens will be eligible to participate in the health care program offered by the House bill unless Congress acts to amend the bill," stated Dan Stein, president of FAIR. "The loopholes and omissions in the House bill are not there by accident," continued Stein. "These loopholes were intended to extend benefits to illegal aliens while allowing Members of Congress to deny those facts to the American people.""


Maybe we are all just using different definitions for the same words.
 
obama tonite envisioned extended care to THIRTY MILLION CITIZENS

bizarre

not 47 million americans

but 30 million citizens

how do you explain this radical new departure in wording?

very revealing

no credibility

rangel's ways and means stripped the heller amendment (e-verify) outta 3200 on friday, july 17

i remember these things

hr3200 as of right now is almost certainly gonna lose

sorry

the below was compiled by The Hill, it in no way can pretend to be a 100% accurate predictor, but it is a frightening foreboding of what's coming for 3200

and remember, for a bill to have real life upstairs it has to get thru pelosi's place, y'know, strong, with momentum at its back

not limping

WHIP COUNT: DEMS LACK THE VOTES
Wed Sep 09 2009 17:03:37 ET

At least 44 more moderate Members of the Democrat Caucus have gone on the record in opposition to the current health care bill in the House, a Hill source claims. Likewise, at least 57 liberal Members of the Democrat Caucus have gone on the record saying they will vote against a health care bill without a strong public option.

Unless multiple Democrats flip on their stated position on health care, Speaker Pelosi lacks the votes to pass a bill through the House on the strength of Democrat votes alone.

WHIP COUNT

44 Democrats Opposed

1. Rep. Altmire
2. Rep. Adler
3. Rep. Barrow
4. Rep. Boren
5. Rep. Boucher
6. Rep. Boyd
7. Rep. Bright
8. Rep. Carney
9. Rep. Childers
11. Rep. Cleaver
12. Rep. Cooper
13. Rep. Costello
14. Rep. Cuellar
15. Rep. Dahlkamper
16. Rep. Davis
17. Rep. Driehaus
18. Rep. Ellsworth
19. Rep. Gordon
20. Rep. Griffith
21. Rep. Halvorson
22. Rep. Hill
23. Rep. Holden
24. Rep. Kanjorski
25. Rep. Kaptur
26. Rep. F Kratovil
27. Rep. Marshall
28. Rep. Massa
29. Rep. Melancon
30. Rep. McIntyre
31. Rep. Minnick
32. Rep. Murtha
33. Rep. Oberstar
34. Rep. Ortiz
35. Rep. Perriello
36. Rep. Peterson
37. Rep. Polis
38. Rep. Pomeroy
39. Rep. Ross
40. Rep. Shuler
41. Rep. Stupak
42. Rep. Tanner
43. Rep. Taylor
44. Rep. Titus

57 Liberal Democrats to vote no on a bill without a strong public option

On July 31, 2009, the Congressional Progressive Caucus sent a letter to Speaker Pelosi expressing their opposition to a weakening of the public option. The letter on behalf of 57 Progressive Democrats concludes, “In short, this agreement will result in the public, both as insurance purchasers and as taxpayers, paying ever higher rates to insurance companies. We simply cannot vote for such a proposal.” The text can be read here: http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/uploads/57 member letter to PelosiWaxman 7 30 09.pdf

1) Rep. Woolsey
2) Rep. Grijalva
3) Rep. Kilpatrick
4) Rep. Nadler
5) Rep. Hare
6) Rep. Roybal-Allard
7) Rep. Ellison
8) Rep. Blumenauer
9) Rep. Watts
10) Rep. Edwards
11) Rep. Olver
12) Rep. Kucinich
13) Rep. Richardson
14) Rep. Waters
15) Rep. Conyers
16) Rep. Chu
17) Rep. Hinchey
18) Rep. Johnson
19) Rep. Watson
20) Rep. Spier
21) Rep. Pascrell
22) Rep. Doggett
23) Rep. Kaptur
24) Rep. Hirono
25) Rep. Filner
26) Rep. Sanchez
27) Rep. Fudge
28) Rep. Lee
29) Rep. Carson
30) Rep. Jackson Lee
31) Rep. Honda
32) Rep. McDermott
33) Rep. Clay
34) Rep. McGovern
35) Rep. Clarke
36) Rep. Massa
37) Rep. Pingree
38) Rep. Jackson, Jr.
39) Rep. Cummings
40) Rep. Thompson
41) Rep. Moore
42) Rep. Payne
43) Rep. Stark
44) Rep. Towns
45) Rep. Brown
46) Rep. Hastings
47) Rep. Valezquez
48) Rep. Gutierrez
49) Rep. Napolitano
50) Rep. Sires
51) Rep. Tierney
52) Rep. Capuano
53) Rep. Fattah
54) Rep. Serrano
55) Rep. Farr
56) Rep. Delahunt
57) Rep. Johnson

DRUDGE REPORT: WHIP COUNT: DEMS LACK THE VOTES 2009®

the 57 are mostly bluffing, they'd vote for a wesley clark, so long as he wore a D

the 44, however, generally mean business
 
akyron said:
CRS analysis

"The CRS analysis comes after weeks of denials by Members of Congress that illegal aliens could receive benefits under the House bill. These denials were echoed by countless media and health care "experts" who dismissed public concerns as myths, or as politically orchestrated attacks.


"Case closed. Illegal aliens will be eligible to participate in the health care program offered by the House bill unless Congress acts to amend the bill," stated Dan Stein, president of FAIR. "The loopholes and omissions in the House bill are not there by accident," continued Stein. "These loopholes were intended to extend benefits to illegal aliens while allowing Members of Congress to deny those facts to the American people.""


Maybe we are all just using different definitions for the same words.
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You are getting spun. You are not linking to the Congressional News Service, you are linking to a press service of FAIR, an Immigration Reform group, and quoting the president of that group.


Illegal Aliens are not eligible to receive any moneys under any of these bills. They are specifically excluded from doing so.

They are not excluded from paying full freight and purchasing insurance, but then neither are they now excluded from purchasing health insurance or health care services now.

It is a flat out lie that illegal aliens will be eligible for free, or even subsidized insurance under any of the bills in Congress, or proposed by Pres Obama.
 
jackalope said:
It is a flat out lie that illegal aliens will be eligible for free, or even subsidized insurance under any of the bills in Congress, or proposed by Pres Obama.
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Joe Wilson is a liar and a disgrace to the state of South Carolina. I would be deeply ashamed if he were my congressman.
 
akyron said:
Maybe we are all just using different definitions for the same words.
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From your link:

About FAIR

Founded in 1979, FAIR is the country's largest immigration reform group. With over 250,000 members nationwide, FAIR fights for immigration policies that serve national interests, not special interests. FAIR believes that immigration reform must enhance national security, improve the economy, protect jobs, preserve our environment, and establish a rule of law that is recognized and enforced.


SOURCE FAIR
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Seems they have a bit of an agenda
 
The Prof said:
DRUDGE REPORT: WHIP COUNT: DEMS LACK THE VOTES 2009®[/COLOR]

the 57 are mostly bluffing, they'd vote for a wesley clark, so long as he wore a D

the 44, however, generally mean business
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Stop believing the lies .... it's so silly.



7:59 PM [Nate]: BTW, the story on Drudge right now about Dems' "whip count" on health care is, of course, total crap. That list lumps together liberal and conservative objections, people like Jared Polis who voted against the bill in committee but will vote for final passage, and basically any Democrat who raised any uncertainties about the health care bill whatsoever. Obviously, there are votes on the right -- and the left -- which are at risk, and passage through the House is hardly assured. But Drudge's list is nevertheless total crap.

FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: State-of-the-Healthcare Speech: Final Thoughts
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jackalope said:
Stop believing the lies .... it's so silly.
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you presume to tell your neighbors what to believe and what not to believe

cuzza silliness?

LOLOL!

tell it to The Hill

and you never answered the one question posed

how do you explain the change in wording, at this late hour, from extending coverage to 47 million americans to providing insurance for 30 million CITIZENS?
 
The Prof said:
you presume to tell your neighbors what to believe and what not to believe

cuzza silliness?

LOLOL!

tell it to The Hill

and you never answered the one question posed

how do you explain the change in wording, at this late hour, from extending coverage to 47 million americans to providing insurance for 30 million CITIZENS?
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You presume to think a republican-circulated 'democratic whip count list' has any credibility at all

LOLOL !!!


Post it if you must, but suffer the mockery as a result. :rofl


edit - ps, I never saw any question posed, and only saw your comment now b/c your post was mercifully short. Buy yourself a paragraph. And a sentence with a period. And some proper capitalization. Maybe I'll read your thoughts next time :)
 
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jackalope said:
You are getting spun. You are not linking to the Congressional News Service, you are linking to a press service of FAIR, an Immigration Reform group, and quoting the president of that group.


Illegal Aliens are not eligible to receive any moneys under any of these bills. They are specifically excluded from doing so.

They are not excluded from paying full freight and purchasing insurance, but then neither are they now excluded from purchasing health insurance or health care services now.

It is a flat out lie that illegal aliens will be eligible for free, or even subsidized insurance under any of the bills in Congress, or proposed by Pres Obama.
Click to expand...


Treatment of Noncitizens in H.R. 3200



"Exchange
Under H.R. 3200, a “Health Insurance Exchange” would begin operation in 2013 and would offer
private plans alongside a public option. The Exchange would not be an insurer; it would provide
eligible individuals and small businesses with access to insurers’ plans, including the public
option, in a comparable way. Individuals would only be eligible to enroll in an Exchange plan if
they were not enrolled in other acceptable coverage (for example, from an employer, Medicare
and generally Medicaid).26 H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether
legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in
the Exchange.27 However, as discussed above, H.R. 3200 would only mandate that resident aliens
would be required to have health insurance."


pdfs ugh
 
jackalope said:
Stop believing the lies .... it's so silly.
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by the way, jackalope, i know those 44 a whole lot better than most around here do, i've been following their every move from the beginning

we can't predict exactly how some of them will go, you're right

but it really does look very bad, your own source indicates as much

the source i cited isn't drudge, as has already been pointed out, it was the hill

no one watches congress at the district by district level closer than the hill

watch cspan

indeed, the way the wind is blowing, it's gonna be MORE than 44 who bolt

sorry
 
akyron said:
Treatment of Noncitizens in H.R. 3200



"Exchange
Under H.R. 3200, a “Health Insurance Exchange” would begin operation in 2013 and would offer
private plans alongside a public option. The Exchange would not be an insurer; it would provide
eligible individuals and small businesses with access to insurers’ plans, including the public
option, in a comparable way. Individuals would only be eligible to enroll in an Exchange plan if
they were not enrolled in other acceptable coverage (for example, from an employer, Medicare
and generally Medicaid).26 H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether
legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in
the Exchange.27 However, as discussed above, H.R. 3200 would only mandate that resident aliens
would be required to have health insurance."


pdfs ugh
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Akyron, they are lying to you. HR3200 contains explicit exclusions for illegal aliens and specifies that they are not eligible for any money under the legislation. The gov link I posted gives the page in the legislation that you can go to, to read the section.

The bill does not allow free, or subsidized, health insurance coverage. Full stop.
 
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