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Finger bitten off during California health protest

If this is truly the case and not a logical fallacy on your part why is it that we have more gun related violence per capita while those with stricter gunlaws have less?

I'd assume you're talking about Europe and Australia?

Care to look at their violent crime statistics?

It would seem that getting rid of guns only cut down on "gun crime"... not actual violent crime.

Funny you should mention that.
 
Thank god the old dude had Medicare...

:mrgreen::lol:
 
Gun violence isn't the only type of violence in our schools.

Where I went to school there were a few stabbings as well.

Making an entire case to disarm anyone who could protect / serve to protect a group of people who you already disarmed.. based on "incredibly low numbers" seems dishonest at best as well.

Statistics prove that CCW holders account for less than 1% of violent crime. Why is it that you guys are so against a responsible faculty member being able to protect their children?

I can't count all the red herrings, personal experiences on your post. But I will try anyways. 1,2,3,4 fi- I'm done count. Oh my. Okay here we go.

You first argument :

1.
Gun violence isn't the only type of violence in our schools.

Where I went to school there were a few stabbings as well.

That is the first red herring. The percentage of school stabbings, shoots, etc. are minuscule compared to weaponless violence in our schools. If anything you'd be better off just banning kids from school all together.

2000 Annual Report on School Safety, Department of Education and Department of Justice, 2000

Physical attacks without a weapon, theft or larceny, and vandalism are much more common in schools than are the more serious incidents. Forty-four percent to forty-nine percent of all schools reported crimes of these types to the authorities. (2000 Annual Report on School Safety, Department of Education and Department of Justice, 2000)

What would stabbings, which come in just as few numbers as gun attacks have to do with your perception that arming teachers would somehow stop violence in our schools even though the overall percentage is in the decimal numbers and you're several times more likely to get into a fist fight then you are to get into a knife fight at school? Nothing.

2.
Making an entire case to disarm anyone who could protect / serve to protect a group of people who you already disarmed.. based on "incredibly low numbers" seems dishonest at best as well.

The way I see it is simple. Teachers are people. The same people who are overworked, underpaid and stressed to the last nerve are the people we ask to protect kids and make life and death decisions in the ridiculously small chance there might be a psychopathic 16 year old killing people? I personally don't see a reason for it and see it as just an ego trip. It is like wearing two condoms when your chances of getting laid are close to nil.

3.
Statistics prove that CCW holders account for less than 1% of violent crime. Why is it that you guys are so against a responsible faculty member being able to protect their children?

This is exactly where I wanted you to fall.

Statistics also show the chances of your kid being in a school shooting are in the 0.000X%. Did you just make my argument for me? I think you did. I'll explain how. Even though CCW holders are responsible for less then 1% of all violent crime then it would be PERFECTLY reasonable for us to ban all guns because there is still a possibility that it might happen. It seems to me highly illogical that you would advocate doing away with gun free zones because they fail less then 1% of the time but not doing away with CCWs even though they are involved in less then 1% of gun crime.

The rest of your argument is an emotional plea and I will not address it.
 
I'd assume you're talking about Europe and Australia?

Care to look at their violent crime statistics?

It would seem that getting rid of guns only cut down on "gun crime"... not actual violent crime.

Funny you should mention that.

Well we are talking about guns right? Weren't you implying being armed would cut down on actual gun crime and because people weren't armed that somehow there was more gun crime?
 
This is exactly where I wanted you to fall.

Statistics also show the chances of your kid being in a school shooting are in the 0.000X%. Did you just make my argument for me? I think you did. I'll explain how. Even though CCW holders are responsible for less then 1% of all violent crime then it would be PERFECTLY reasonable for us to ban all guns because there is still a possibility that it might happen. It seems to me highly illogical that you would advocate doing away with gun free zones because they fail less then 1% of the time but not doing away with CCWs even though they are involved in less then 1% of gun crime.

The rest of your argument is an emotional plea and I will not address it.


Because you could yell fire in a crowded theater we should limit your rights to free speech.

Funny how that works, right?

I was under the impression that the United States legal system still worked under the premise innocent until proven guilty?

gee.


btw, the same argument you're using about people being stressed and all of that jive was the same one they used in AZ to fight us becoming a shall issue state.

Let me see if I can recant what was said.. "There would be blood in the streets, and ordinary traffic incidents would become shootouts!".

Funny, it's been quite a while and none of that has happened. :roll:


Well we are talking about guns right? Weren't you implying being armed would cut down on actual gun crime and because people weren't armed that somehow there was more gun crime?

My point is this:

Historically places where people are forcibly disarmed by law.. are places where they are most susceptible to violent crime / murder.

This has been proven in "No gun zones" and places such as New York City, and ****cago, Illinois... They have the most draconian gun laws on the books and still suffer from violent crime that includes weapons...

Proving, that gun control.. and "gun free zones" are a farce.
 
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Because you could yell fire in a crowded theater we should limit your rights to free speech.

Funny how that works, right?

I was under the impression that the United States legal system still worked under the premise innocent until proven guilty?

gee.


btw, the same argument you're using about people being stressed and all of that jive was the same one they used in AZ to fight us becoming a shall issue state.

Let me see if I can recant what was said.. "There would be blood in the streets, and ordinary traffic incidents would become shootouts!".

Funny, it's been quite a while and none of that has happened. :roll:




My point is this:

Historically places where people are forcibly disarmed by law.. are places where they are most susceptible to violent crime / murder.

This has been proven in "No gun zones" and places such as New York City, and ****cago, Illinois... They have the most draconian gun laws on the books and still suffer from violent crime that includes weapons...

Proving, that gun control.. and "gun free zones" are a farce.

Historically? Do you have the statistics and information to show that somehow the two are related? Big cities that are crowded often have higher crime rates thats just common sense.
 
Because you could yell fire in a crowded theater we should limit your rights to free speech.

Funny how that works, right?

I was under the impression that the United States legal system still worked under the premise innocent until proven guilty?

More emotional pleas and irrelevant arguments. Just because you have the right to bear arms doesn't mean you get to walk into the white house with a gun either even though technically it's publicly owned and the people there are public servants. You simply do not understand that no matter how you twist it and how many emotional pleas you make THE LEVEL OF VIOLENCE BY GUN RELATED MURDERS, STABBINGS, FIGHTS ETC. IN OUR SCHOOLS DOES NOT JUSTIFY ARMING TEACHERS. I typed that really slowly slow. Did it help?

gee.

btw, the same argument you're using about people being stressed and all of that jive was the same one they used in AZ to fight us becoming a shall issue state.

Let me see if I can recant what was said.. "There would be blood in the streets, and ordinary traffic incidents would become shootouts!".

Funny, it's been quite a while and none of that has happened. :roll:

.....Okay. What? Please keep it coherent.
 
Historically? Do you have the statistics and information to show that somehow the two are related? Big cities that are crowded often have higher crime rates thats just common sense.

No, it's not.


Top 50 Cities in the U.S. by Population and Rank — Infoplease.com

There are quite a few large cities on that list who are in Shall Issue states and states which are not draconian in their gun laws.

They have very low violent crime numbers in comparison to other cities where there gun laws are draconian and their citizens are forcibly disarmed.

Crime Rate by State, 2006 — Infoplease.com <-- Look at the numbers, they're quite telling.
 
funny, i thought the person doing the shooting was responsble for those deaths. and for the record, i'm not anti-gun.

i don't feel they have a place in SCHOOLS, however.

and you certainly can't prove your post, so it's just your opinion, right?

On October 16, 1991, Hennard drove his 1987 Ford Ranger pickup truck through the front window of a Luby's Cafeteria at 1705 East Central Texas Expressway in Killeen, yelled "This is what Bell County has done to me!", then opened fire on the restaurant's patrons and staff with a Glock 17 pistol and later a Ruger P89. He stalked, shot, and killed 23 people and wounded another 20 before committing suicide. About 80 people were in the restaurant at the time. The first victim was local veterinarian Dr. Michael Griffith, who ran up to the driver's side of the pickup truck to offer assistance after the truck came through the window. During the shooting, Hennard approached Suzanna Gratia Hupp and her parents. Hupp had actually brought a handgun to the Luby's Cafeteria that day but had left it in her vehicle because laws in force at the time forbade citizens from carrying firearms. According to her later testimony in favor of Missouri's HB-1720 bill[1] and in general [2][3], after she realized that her firearm was not in her purse but "a hundred feet away in [her] car," her father charged at Hennard in an attempt to subdue him but was gunned down; a short time later, Hupp's mother was also shot and killed. Hupp later expressed regret for abiding by the law in question by leaving her firearm in her car rather than keeping it on her person[1].



What good are these laws when by definition only law abiding citizens follow them.?
 
More emotional pleas and irrelevant arguments. Just because you have the right to bear arms doesn't mean you get to walk into the white house with a gun either even though technically it's publicly owned and the people there are public servants. You simply do not understand that no matter how you twist it and how many emotional pleas you make THE LEVEL OF VIOLENCE BY GUN RELATED MURDERS, STABBINGS, FIGHTS ETC. IN OUR SCHOOLS DOES NOT JUSTIFY ARMING TEACHERS. I typed that really slowly slow. Did it help?



.....Okay. What? Please keep it coherent.

I was using schools as an example as to why Gun Free Zones are bad.

Nowhere have I stated it's solely my purpose to arm teachers.

I was giving examples of situations where something could have been done if there had been an armed response.

Reducing incidents to numbers and saying.. "look it's not all that bad" doesn't change the fact that people are still becoming victims of violent crime in these "gun free zones".

Nor does it change the significance that poses.
 
No, it's not.


Top 50 Cities in the U.S. by Population and Rank — Infoplease.com

There are quite a few large cities on that list who are in Shall Issue states and states which are not draconian in their gun laws.

They have very low violent crime numbers in comparison to other cities where there gun laws are draconian and their citizens are forcibly disarmed.

Crime Rate by State, 2006 — Infoplease.com <-- Look at the numbers, they're quite telling.


Okay you showed me a list of cities by population and then another list of violent crimes by states but didn't show the correlations by city. Do you have a violent crimes by cities list? Also you need show how one is caused by the other.
 
Okay you showed me a list of cities by population and then another list of violent crimes by states but didn't show the correlations by city. Do you have a violent crimes by cities list? Also you need show how one is caused by the other.

I am out of time and unable to spoon feed you anymore data today.


If you're serious about your queries in correlations and have an open mind about the problem at hand...


read this book: Interview with John Lott, author of More Guns, Less Crime
 
I was using schools as an example as to why Gun Free Zones are bad.

And I asked you to provide evidence as to why. You couldn't. When I showed you information as to why they work 99% of the time you went on an emotional rant. Yes. Thank you for this very informative session on how your style of debate works. Make a claim. Have it destroyed and then cry.

Nowhere have I stated it's solely my purpose to arm teachers.

I was giving examples of situations where something could have been done if there had been an armed response.

Reducing incidents to numbers and saying.. "look it's not all that bad" doesn't change the fact that people are still becoming victims of violent crime in these "gun free zones".

Nor does it change the significance that poses.

Coulda,shoulda,woulda. If I had wheels I'd be a bike. But I don't. See how that works? Quantum physics is amazing. The reality is that unless you're in an universe where every single human being has nothing but good thoughts going through his head 100% of the time, violence is unavoidable. When you claim that violence has reached a point where you can claim that gun free zones are failures then it's up to you to support this claim. You haven't. I've waited for 2 pages of this evidence but all you can show is the times it hasn't worked. 0000.0X% of the time. It is still no reason to arm teachers or arm whomever it is you want to arm.
 
I am out of time and unable to spoon feed you anymore data today.


If you're serious about your queries in correlations and have an open mind about the problem at hand...


read this book: Interview with John Lott, author of More Guns, Less Crime

Spoonfed? You haven't given any correlating data. Instead you talked about cities then showed me states couldn't show causation now you want me to read a book. If you make a point prove it
 
I think the title of this thread should read "Does liberalism result in Zombie Transformation?" :lol:

No, in all seriousness, thats crazy. I wonder if limb dismemberment by angry protestors is covered in the helthcare bill :rofl
 
That's great. Care to at least even make it look like you are trying to address the topic? :roll:

He addressing the topic. Read between the lines he is telling you hoe boh sides do bad things. He could have added the Holacaust Museum muderer to the mix.
 
Uh oh... With all the left wing threads recently about shouting down a wheelchair bound woman at a town hall meeting. I am curious as to thier position of one of thier own, biting off the finger of an town hall protester?


:mrgreen:

And their response is, "the Righties do it"...:rofl
 
Uh oh... With all the left wing threads recently about shouting down a wheelchair bound woman at a town hall meeting. I am curious as to thier position of one of thier own, biting off the finger of an town hall protester?
:mrgreen:

As the old adage goes one wrong does not make a right. Except with the right wing.
 
April 2009 Right winger kills three cops after posting Glenn Beck and NRA videos about "FEMA Camps" and Obama wanting to take his guns away.

Poplawski bought into the SHTF/TEOTWAKI conspiracy theories hook, line and sinker, even posting a link to Stormfront of a YouTube video featuring talk show host Glenn Beck talking about FEMA camps with Congressman Ron Paul

Richard Poplawski: The Making of a Lone Wolf

July 2008 Rightwinger walks into a Tennessee Church in shoots dead two "liberals"

A four-page letter found in Jim D. Adkisson's small SUV indicated he intentionally targeted the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church because, the police chief said, "he hated the liberal movement" and was upset with "liberals in general as well as gays


Police: Killer targeted liberal church - Crime & courts- msnbc.com

May 2009 Right winger kills yet another abortion doctor


Suspect held in slaying of Kan. abortion doctor* - Crime & courts- msnbc.com

OK lets add it up.

7 politically motivated assasinations/ambushes by right wingers over the last year.

Versus

One finger bitten off in a brawl.

you are an incredibly sad little person, aren't you?
 
The good news is that the poor guy with the partially bitten off finger is covered by that Socialist Health care plan - MEDICARE. Any care to bet that he will use his public option or already has !!!
 
Granted the guy that got his finger bit off hit the other guy first, but I think its pretty much a given that its pretty low to bite the finger off of a 65 year old man in a fight.

You seem to have changed your tune from earlier...:rofl

I love it!
 
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