• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Conservatives want serious health debate

you mean the american people who are on medicare? those people, who are against a public option?

most americans are NOT INFORMED on this issue. if they were, reform would be in the bag.
 
dragondad said:
How true! Sure, there are are small measures that could be taken but they are "band-aids" in comparison to the public option.

The public option if enacted would lead big cost savings down the road. The Government could leverage their buying power to extract concessions from drug companies and medical providers. Administrative costs are lower. It puts pressure on insurance companies to compete.

It's simple really. There are five players in this game. The patient, the medical provider, the drug company, the insurance company, and the tax payer.

The public option puts pressure on the insurance company, the medical providers and the insurance companies to obtain real cost savings.

Band-aids do none of this...Only a right wing lemming would oppose the public option.
Click to expand...




I guess most of the American population then are "right wing lemmings".... Sucks for you.
 
apdst said:
Oh, it's going to be free for the welfare class. You can bet on that. You don't actually believe that the government is going to suddenly start charging people for health care that have been getting everything for free for three generations, do you? All thos illegal aliens aren't going to be stuck with a bill when they go to American hospitals.
Click to expand...
it already is free for the "welfare class". and there is a provision in the bill that deals with illegals. keep in mind it's not a finished product.
 
liblady said:
you mean the american people who are on medicare? those people, who are against a public option?
Click to expand...


Hmm are you going to offer an anecdotal as evidence of "most Americans" Thats a non starter. :lol:

most americans are NOT INFORMED on this issue. if they were, reform would be in the bag.
Click to expand...



I am very informed, I am against it. liberal elitism is an ugly thing, We disagree with you, because we believe in Freedom. not forced healthcare at others expense.
 
we need reform. most people agree on that. who else will bring about that reform?
Click to expand...
Preferbly, the state governments. But it's the type of reform that bothers me most though. Reform is good, but not government-healthcare.
 
liblady said:
you mean the american people who are on medicare? those people, who are against a public option?

most americans are NOT INFORMED on this issue. if they were, reform would be in the bag.
Click to expand...

Right now you see the drug companies and the insurance companies paying out Millions to oppose the public option.

You would think that might give the right wing lemmings pause to think?

Why am I on the side of the drug companies and insurance companies with respect to the public option?

[ But this just gets back to my old point. These people in general have low IQ's and don't have the mental sophistication to vote in their own self interest.]
 
Last edited:
dragondad said:
Right now you see the drug companies and the insurance companies paying out Millions to oppose the public option.

You would think that might give the right wing lemmings pause to think?

Why am I on the side of the drug companies and insurance companies with respect to the public option?

[ But this just gets back to my old point. These people in general have low IQ's and don't have the mental sophistication to vote in their own self interest.]
Click to expand...
logic isn't a part of this debate, it seems.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Hmm are you going to offer an anecdotal as evidence of "most Americans" Thats a non starter. :lol:





I am very informed, I am against it. liberal elitism is an ugly thing, We disagree with you, because we believe in Freedom. not forced healthcare at others expense.
Click to expand...
you're right, it's my opinion. i fail to see how a public option infringes upon YOUR freedom.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
Preferbly, the state governments. But it's the type of reform that bothers me most though. Reform is good, but not government-healthcare.
Click to expand...
why not? what's your issue with a public option?
 
liblady said:
why not? what's your issue with a public option?
Click to expand...

Public option, private option. The system can be reformed to be less costly. That's the ticket--along with health promotion services. That would save a lot of money.

I don't care whether it's private or public as long as it's some form of universal coverage that brings down the overall cost.

There are systems in the country that work to do that. We need to study them and pick the best one.
 
liblady said:
it already is free for the "welfare class". and there is a provision in the bill that deals with illegals. keep in mind it's not a finished product.
Click to expand...

Hospitals are going to just turn people away? Yeah, right.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
Had the libs stayed clear of the public option, this never would have happened.
Click to expand...

You have got to be kidding me. You honestly think that liberals proposing a public health insurance option excuses offensive lies, demagoguery, and hate mongering on the right?

I guess your right, had the liberals not proposed a public insurance option:

Sarah Palin would not have shamelessly whored out her special needs son claiming that the Democrats would establish death panels and thus would have killed him.

Limbaugh and other talk radio narcissists would not be making the offensive and absurd comparisons between what the Democrats are proposing in their health care bills and National Socialism, thus prompting their nut job listeners to hit the town halls accusing Democrats, even Jewish ones, of "supporting Nazi Policies".

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8"]YouTube - Barney Frank Confronts Woman At Townhall Comparing Obama To Hitler[/ame]

We would not have the RNC sending out "surveys" implying that the Democratic Plans would identify Republicans by their voter registration and thus deny care to them.

The Washington Independent Obtained: The RNC’s Health Care Survey

We would not have hypocrites on Medicare in town halls screaming "We don't want socialized medicine, keep your damn government out of my Medicare!"

We would not have ignorant hate mongering piles of sh*t in town halls shouting down disabled people in wheel chairs when they try to speak.

Wheelchair-Bound Woman Shouted Down At New Jersey Health Care Town Hall (VIDEO)

Even if the Public Option is ultimately a bad idea, a bad idea did not create this. This is the result of years of hate mongering, culture war demagoguery, and watering of the crazy tree on the part of the radical right. They have watered the crazy tree for so long that now they can't even control it enough to have a rational debate even if they want to. Go ahead and excuse it though if you really want to align yourself with people that accuse those that disagree with them as being Nazis and shout down the disabled.
 
liblady said:
they don't now, do they? what is your real issue with a public option?
Click to expand...

My real issue with the whole thing is that I'm going to have to pay for this debacle. My other issue, is the fairy tale that claims costs will go down. When has government run programs been cheaper?
 
liblady said:
you're right, it's my opinion. i fail to see how a public option infringes upon YOUR freedom.
Click to expand...




I have the best health insurance available, I give my employees hard cold cash instead of a health plan...


When you raise my taxes to pay for an idiotic public option, guess who loses said cash and thier freedom to get thier own healt care.
 
apdst said:
My real issue with the whole thing is that I'm going to have to pay for this debacle. My other issue, is the fairy tale that claims costs will go down. When has government run programs been cheaper?
Click to expand...


No you're not going to pay for it. As all the tax revenue needed to pay for it is coming from household income above $250K per year.

You don't understand even the most simplest of facts about the bill.
 
apdst said:
My real issue with the whole thing is that I'm going to have to pay for this debacle. My other issue, is the fairy tale that claims costs will go down. When has government run programs been cheaper?
Click to expand...
fair enough. although i don't make over 250k, i assume my taxes might go up anyway. i'm okay with that. the working poor need access to healthcare. they already cost us in terms of higher healthcare costs passed on from hospitals that absorb the cost of their care, so it just might be a wash.

and i believe insurance costs WILL go down with competition. that's how competition works.
 
dragondad said:
No you're not going to pay for it. As all the tax revenue needed to pay for it is coming from household income above $250K per year.

You don't understand even the most simplest of facts about the bill.
Click to expand...




Show me in the bill where it will be paid for entirely by those making over 250k a year...



What page and paragraph please, I'd hate for you to look like you are making it up to mask ignorance! :thumbs:
 
dragondad said:
No you're not going to pay for it. As all the tax revenue needed to pay for it is coming from household income above $250K per year.

You don't understand even the most simplest of facts about the bill.
Click to expand...

Like hell I'm not! The bill clearly states that employers are coming up with some jack, either in fines or not providing healthcare, or for paying for employee health care. Don't lie, saying that we're not coming out of our pockets to pay for this BS.
 
apdst said:
Like hell I'm not! The bill clearly states that employers are coming up with some jack, either in fines or not providing healthcare, or for paying for employee health care. Don't lie, saying that we're not coming out of our pockets to pay for this BS.
Click to expand...
with payrolls over 400k. i'm sorry you are forced to do the right thing.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
I have the best health insurance available, I give my employees hard cold cash instead of a health plan...


When you raise my taxes to pay for an idiotic public option, guess who loses said cash and thier freedom to get thier own healt care.
Click to expand...

Ohhh please don't lower your employee's wages...Massa...Massa please?!

LOL!..........What a tool!

Your pissant "company" can't afford to pay insurance to it's employees.

This program would actually help them by providing lowered premiums for those workers who have low incomes.
 
dragondad said:
Ohhh please don't lower your employee's wages...Massa...Massa please?!
Click to expand...


That's offensive.


I pay extra so they can get thier own insurance. It's called "Freedom", sorry that frightens you into making racist overtures towards me.

FAIL

LOL!..........What a tool!
Click to expand...

Hmm reduced to name calling, how intellectual of you. :roll:


Your pissant "company" can't afford to pay insurance to it's employees.
Click to expand...


This is a lie based on ignorance. We pay our employees more than the going rate in return they are expected to deal with thie own health care plans...

Most opt into the one we actually have, but they have the freedom to opt out in lie of cash..


Please, at least get the facts first before you open your mouth.


This program would actually help them by providing lowered premiums for those workers who have low incomes.
Click to expand...



Most of my employees make over 100k. Sorry. They can afford thier own insurance...



How will them being paid less and forced onto a government health plan "help" them?

FAIL
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom