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UK Health Care: Babies Born in Corridors

hey, and how 'bout them canucks?

IMPLODING?

NOT SUSTAINABLE?

CUTTING six thousand surgeries?

CLOSING a quarter of their facilities?

ELIMINATING 24% of their services?

those are some rather UGLY incomplete sentences, don't y'all think?

and just check out those SOURCES!

Yet the still manage to have higher life expectancies and lower infant morality rates than we do.

By the way, are you capable of writing an actual paragraph?
 
Yet the still manage to have higher life expectancies and lower infant morality rates than we do.

1. They have a higher life expectancy BECAUSE of our higher infant mortality rates. When someone dies at that young an age, it has a profound effect on the average.

2. The Truth About Health Care and Infant Mortality: Lack of access to health care does not explain America's infant mortality rate - Reason Magazine
No one denies the problem. Our infant mortality rate is double that of Japan or Sweden. But we live different lives, on average, than people in those places. We suffer more obesity (about 10 times as much as the Japanese), and we have more births to teenagers (seven times more than the Swedes). Nearly 40 percent of American babies are born to unwed mothers.

Factors like these are linked to low birth weight in babies, which is a dangerous thing. In a 2007 study for the National Bureau of Economic Research, economists June O'Neill and Dave O'Neill noted that "a multitude of behaviors unrelated to the health care system such as substance abuse, smoking and obesity" are connected "to the low birth weight and preterm births that underlie the infant death syndrome."

So why does our infant mortality rate exceed that of, say, Canada, where health care is free at the point of service? One reason is that we have a lot more tiny newborns. But underweight babies don't fare worse here than in Canada—quite the contrary.

The NBER paper points out that among the smallest infants, survival rates are better on this side of the border. What that suggests is that if we lived under the Canadian health care system, we would not have a lower rate of infant mortality. We would have a higher one.
 
Yet the still manage to have higher life expectancies and lower infant morality rates than we do.

By the way, are you capable of writing an actual paragraph?
As I have often been told you Americans record your infant morality different and that disadvantages you somewhat. And well let's not forget the lifestyle effects on life expectancies, America is not known for its slim waistlines so to speak.;)
 
hey, and how 'bout them canucks?

IMPLODING?

NOT SUSTAINABLE?

CUTTING six thousand surgeries?

CLOSING a quarter of their facilities?

ELIMINATING 24% of their services?

those are some rather UGLY incomplete sentences, don't y'all think?

and just check out those SOURCES!

The Canadian health system is not "imploding" nor does it have the severe problems of the American system.

It is simply not true.

I find it highly ironic that Dr.Doig would never advocate anything close to a fundamental move away from Canada's curent system.

Yet here you are, using her criticisms to pimp your warped agenda to block a public option.
 
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1. They have a higher life expectancy BECAUSE of our higher infant mortality rates. When someone dies at that young an age, it has a profound effect on the average.

2. The Truth About Health Care and Infant Mortality: Lack of access to health care does not explain America's infant mortality rate - Reason Magazine

Says an editorial columnist for the Chicago Tribune.

Mr. Chapman is not a serious voice, that much is clear.

He is, what he is.

A hyper partisan hack pretending to be a health policy expert.
 
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Wessex, if you want decentralized healthcare, Sweden has the best in the world. They actually have healthcare at a county level. Funding comes from taxes administered locally.
 
The Canadian health system is not "imploding" nor does it have the severe problems of the American system.

It is simply not true.

I find it highly ironic that Dr.Doig would never advocate anything close to a fundamental move away from Canada's curent system.

Yet here you are, using her criticisms to pimp your warped agenda to block a public option.

he finds it ironic

LOLOL!

as if anyone could conceivably care

Dr Doig: "We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize."

Dr Doig, continued: "(Canadians) have to understand that the system that we have right now - if it keeps on going without change - is not sustainable."

NO ONE cares what the limit thinks (except his mom, maybe)

the limit meanwhile preoccupies himself with the personal opinions of The powerful and prescient Prof

EVERYONE, on the other hand, dignifies the ideas of DEAR dr doig

why, SHE's the DIVINER!

LOLOLOL!
 
Infant mortality rates by Country.

Look at all the Countries outranking the USA!

They all have Universal Health care including the UK. Cuba even does better than we do.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate]List of countries by infant mortality rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]



That's where the rubber hits the road....That's where right wing bullsht ends.


You can believe the OP's scary story hoping to convince you that UHC sucks or you can think for yourself and look at the data that puts our health system to shame.
 
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i didn't write any stephen king novel

dr doig did

LOL!
 
As I said the US is famous for using a method that overrates its infant morality relative to other nations.

Bernadine Healy, M.D.: Behind the baby count - US News and World Report

it's shaky ground to compare U.S. infant mortality with reports from other countries. The United States counts all births as live if they show any sign of life, regardless of prematurity or size. This includes what many other countries report as stillbirths. In Austria and Germany, fetal weight must be at least 500 grams (1 pound) to count as a live birth; in other parts of Europe, such as Switzerland, the fetus must be at least 30 centimeters (12 inches) long. In Belgium and France, births at less than 26 weeks of pregnancy are registered as lifeless. And some countries don't reliably register babies who die within the first 24 hours of birth. Thus, the United States is sure to report higher infant mortality rates. For this very reason, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which collects the European numbers, warns of head-to-head comparisons by country.
 
As I said the US is famous for using a method that overrates its infant morality relative to other nations.

Bernadine Healy, M.D.: Behind the baby count - US News and World Report

it's shaky ground to compare U.S. infant mortality with reports from other countries. The United States counts all births as live if they show any sign of life, regardless of prematurity or size. This includes what many other countries report as stillbirths. In Austria and Germany, fetal weight must be at least 500 grams (1 pound) to count as a live birth; in other parts of Europe, such as Switzerland, the fetus must be at least 30 centimeters (12 inches) long. In Belgium and France, births at less than 26 weeks of pregnancy are registered as lifeless. And some countries don't reliably register babies who die within the first 24 hours of birth. Thus, the United States is sure to report higher infant mortality rates. For this very reason, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which collects the European numbers, warns of head-to-head comparisons by country.

Your own source says Iceland has the same standards as the US does and has the best infant mortality rates in the World. Thanks for making my case.
 
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Iceland!

LOLOLOL!
 
Your own source says Iceland has the same standards as the US does and has the best infant mortality rates in the World. Thanks for making my case.

My source says this actually:

Mystery. Look at Iceland. It uses the same standards as we do. But it also has a population under 300,000 that is 94 percent homogenous, a mixture of Norse and Celts. Similarly, Finland and Japan do not have the ethnic and cultural diversity of our 300 million citizens. Even factoring in education and income, Chinese-American mothers have lower rates, and African-Americans higher, than the U.S. average. Environment matters as well. Lower infant mortality tracks with fewer teen pregnancies, married as opposed to single mothers, less obesity and smoking, more education, and moms pregnant with babies that they are utterly intent on having. Yet, there are still biological factors that we don't understand that lead to spontaneous premature delivery. It's a mysterious happening when a seemingly healthy pregnant woman suddenly goes into labor and delivers at six or seven months or has to face the shock and sadness of being confined to bed, hoping to hold on for another week, another month.

It hardly seems to support your point.

Also you missed this:

the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which collects the European numbers, warns of head-to-head comparisons by country.


Such a contentious area is hardly one to make statements like this about;

That's where the rubber hits the road....That's where right wing bullsht ends
 
Says an editorial columnist for the Chicago Tribune.

Mr. Chapman is not a serious voice, that much is clear.

He is, what he is.

A hyper partisan hack pretending to be a health policy expert.

So you're willing to overlook the actual facts presented in the article because the author disagrees with you?
 
My source says this actually:

Mystery. Look at Iceland. It uses the same standards as we do. But it also has a population under 300,000 that is 94 percent homogenous, a mixture of Norse and Celts. Similarly, Finland and Japan do not have the ethnic and cultural diversity of our 300 million citizens. Even factoring in education and income, Chinese-American mothers have lower rates, and African-Americans higher, than the U.S. average. Environment matters as well. Lower infant mortality tracks with fewer teen pregnancies, married as opposed to single mothers, less obesity and smoking, more education, and moms pregnant with babies that they are utterly intent on having. Yet, there are still biological factors that we don't understand that lead to spontaneous premature delivery. It's a mysterious happening when a seemingly healthy pregnant woman suddenly goes into labor and delivers at six or seven months or has to face the shock and sadness of being confined to bed, hoping to hold on for another week, another month.

It hardly seems to support your point.

Also you missed this:

the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which collects the European numbers, warns of head-to-head comparisons by country.


Such a contentious area is hardly one to make statements like this about;

That's where the rubber hits the road....That's where right wing bullsht ends


What is your point? That the USA is too brown (wink) (wink) Unlike lilly white Iceland?

Tell me how does Cuba with all those brown and black people you can't stand manage to out do the USA in infant mortality?
 
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What is your point? That the USA is too brown (wink) (wink) Unlike lilly white Iceland?

Tell me how does Cuba with all those brown and black people you can't stand manage to out do the USA in infant mortality?

I

It doesn't. Cuban statistics are a lie. My aunt actually went there and met a woman whose daughter died and was not counted in official statistics.

As for U.S. infant mortality rates, see my earlier post. There is reason to believe that under socialized health care, they might actually go up.
 
It doesn't. Cuban statistics are a lie. My aunt actually went there and met a woman whose daughter died and was not counted in official statistics.

As for U.S. infant mortality rates, see my earlier post. There is reason to believe that under socialized health care, they might actually go up.

Ah so your anectodal tale proves this? You even have knowledge that the Cuban authorities did not count her death!.....Ha! ...LOL!
 
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What is your point? That the USA is too brown (wink) (wink) Unlike lilly white Iceland?
Her point is the sensationalist you made is not very accurate or useful.

Tell me how does Cuba with all those brown and black people you can't stand manage to out do the USA in infant mortality?
Cuba uses a different method of determining infant mortality and as the article says:


the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which collects the European numbers, warns of head-to-head comparisons by country.
 
Ah so your anectodal tale proves this? You even have knowledge that the Cuban authorities did not count her death!.....Ha! ...LOL!

Can we just look at any country except Cuba please? All I'm saying is that I find it VERY difficult to actually trust Cuban statistics.
 
cuba!

LOLOLOL!
 
So you're willing to overlook the actual facts presented in the article because the author disagrees with you?


They are not "facts" in any sense of the word. They are bizarre extrapolations taken from partisan sources such as the American Enterprise Institute and interpreted by a non-expert columnist.

Take note: "Nicholas Eberstadt, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, also attributes the gap largely to conduct."

Isn't that wonderful? A right-wing 'scholar,' from a right-wing think tank agreeing with a right-wing author concerning a right-wing talking point.

Eberstadt's motto is well known in the scholarly community: If one does not like the data he or she sees, keep changing the metrics until you find something that makes them appear far better than they are.

Changing the measurements by which experts measure infant mortality until Chapman likes what he sees is not a postulation that will ever be taken seriously by academics in the field of health policy.

No respectable expert would ever forward such a vacuous, arrogant claim.

Then again, neither Mr. Eberstadt, nor Mr. Chapman are hardly experts.

Eberstadt should stick to doing what he does best - cheerleading for John Bolton and his ultra hawkish viewpoints on North Korea.
 
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Her point is the sensationalist you made is not very accurate or useful.

Cuba uses a different method of determining infant mortality and as the article says:


the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which collects the European numbers, warns of head-to-head comparisons by country.

The World Health Organization ranks Cuba's Health Care system right up with the USA's despite it spending a small fraction of what the US spends. You have no idea why their infant mortality rates are so low. Other than your ideology which guides you to believe brown people can't have good healthcare.

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting
 
They are not "facts" in any sense of the word. They are bizarre extrapolations taken from partisan sources such as the American Enterprise Institute.

Take note: "Nicholas Eberstadt, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, also attributes the gap largely to conduct."

Isn't that wonderful? A right-wing 'scholar,' from a right-wing think tank agreeing with a right wing author concerning a right-wing talking point.

No respectable expert in the health policy field would ever forward such a vacuous, arrogant claim.

Then again, neither Mr. Eberstadt, nor Mr. Chapman are experts in the health policy field.

Eberstadt should stick to doing what he does best - cheerleading for John Bolton and his ultra hawkish viewpoints on North Korea.

So are you denying that:
-We are 10 times more obese than Japan
-We have 7 times the teen pregnancy rates of Sweden
-We have relatively high drug use rates
-We have high rates of underweight infants- probably because of the above
-Still, our underweight infant survival rates are actually higher than those in Canada.

These are not things to be argued for or against. They are FACTS.
 
So are you denying that:
-We are 10 times more obese than Japan
-We have 7 times the teen pregnancy rates of Sweden
-We have relatively high drug use rates
-We have high rates of underweight infants- probably because of the above
-Still, our underweight infant survival rates are actually higher than those in Canada.

These are not things to be argued for or against. They are FACTS.

Did you even read the Chapman article?

My guess is that you did not, otherwise you would not be asking "So are you denying that..."
 
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