Tories "will scrap hunting ban"

[Laila]

The controversial scheme will include the creation of a Hunt Regulatory Authority (HRA) to police the behaviour of hunts and was drawn up by senior lawyers along with the Countryside Alliance

The plans have the backing of influential Tories including William Hague and Edward Garnier, the shadow justice minister and could lead to the reintroduction of hunting with dogs across the British countryside

Tories "will scrap hunting ban" - Telegraph

Nice to see Tories still know how to make this a class issue and where their priority lies.
What the hell? Only toffs go gallivanting off to tear a fox apart in a red suit all done up :/

 

[Metternich]

This is a good move because the hunts will go on with or without the law. Then if that is the case, then surely it must be better for the well being of the nation, the psychological development of the people, if legislatures make sure that their laws at least have a chance at being followed. Their laws make not too many criminals, too routinely.

 

[Laila]

The hunts shouldn't go on if it is illegal and they should face the law.

If they are law abiding citizens that is, if they are not. Then fine them and/or jail.

 

[Wessexman]

Tories "will scrap hunting ban" - Telegraph

Nice to see Tories still know how to make this a class issue and where their priority lies.
What the hell? Only toffs go gallivanting off to tear a fox apart in a red suit all done up :/

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to be you who are making it a class issue. Aside from being a somewhat false stereotype about fox-hunting it is not a positive step to use such class-hatred as an argument.

This is a very good decision. Fox hunting is an ancient British country pursuit and that a bunch of middle-class, liberal urbanites should ban it was a great over-extension of gov't power. It is a matter for country people. An unusually positive step by Cameron.

 

[Laila]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to be you who are making it a class issue. Aside from being a somewhat false stereotype about fox-hunting it is not a positive step to use such class-hatred as an argument.

This is a very good decision. Fox hunting is an ancient British country pursuit and that a bunch of middle-class, liberal urbanites should ban it was a great over-extension of gov't power. It is a matter for country people. An unusually positive step by Cameron.

You'd have to be blind to see this hasn't been a class issue from the beginning.

So?
**** fighting was a tradition.
As was dog fighting.
Oh oh! Badger baiting.

Legalize all or none.

Stupidest thing i have heard and if this is on the agenda then i do not wish to consider Cameron
Screw NHS, Education, Economy. Oh no, we must make sure we can once again tear apart foxes with hounds

 

[Wessexman]

The hunts shouldn't go on if it is illegal and they should face the law.

If they are law abiding citizens that is, if they are not. Then fine them and/or jail.

But it shouldn't be illegal and whether it should be should not be up to a middle-class urbanites.

You are correct that laws should be respected generally, although not necessarily always.

 

[Metternich]

The hunts shouldn't go on if it is illegal and they should face the law.

If they are law abiding citizens that is, if they are not. Then fine them and/or jail.

"Face the law?" you must be confused with "face a frivolous fine!" These aren't criminals, they're just a growing population of people interested in a old traditional practice that happens to be quite fun.

I'm all for supporting the Rule of Law, but when so-called 'law' extends itself into harmless recreation one has too take a step back and wonder if creating a law that makes so many criminals overnight, without even affecting the actual practice, is really the best use of resources.

 

[Laila]

I'm all for supporting the Rule of Law.

Then this is a non issue.

The law is the law. If you wish to change it, lobby your politicans but until then follow it.
If they do not follow it, face the consequences. Simple concept.

 

[Laila]

You are correct that laws should be respected generally, although not necessarily always.

But this is one of the times where it should be respected.

 

[Wessexman]

You'd have to be blind to see this hasn't been a class issue from the beginning.

Indeed, it was a class issue for the left. We're just lucky that more foxes aren't lesbians.

So?
**** fighting was a tradition.
As was dog fighting.
Oh oh! Badger baiting.

Legalize all or none.

Fox hunting is far more of a tradition in country England. I have never been to a badger baiting or **** fight nor even heard of one being held.

Stupidest thing i have heard and if this is on the agenda then i do not wish to consider Cameron
Screw NHS, Education, Economy. Oh no, we must make sure we can once again tear apart foxes with hounds

You clearly no nothing of fox hunting. This is why middle-class, urban liberals should not have a voice in such matters. The fox is a menace.

 

[Laila]

Indeed, it was a class issue for the left. We're just lucky that more foxes aren't lesbians.

Fox hunting is far more of a tradition in country England. I have never been to a badger baiting or **** fight nor even heard of one being held.

You clearly no nothing of fox hunting. This is why middle-class, urban liberals should not have a voice in such matters. The fox is a menace.

It was a class issue for the right as well.

Because it is now illegal. As is fox hunting and rightly so.

Oh yeah, the poor fluffy things are going to dive for my throat! What a menace! We must get the dogs to tear them apart slowly whilst i am on a horse in a red jumpsuit. with a glass of wine in my hand.

Its called a bullet. USE IT.

 

[Wessexman]

But this is one of the times where it should be respected.

Well it is an egregious overbearing and silly move by the legislature but I agree it is not such an imposition of tyranny as to warrant active resistance.

 

[Laila]

Well it is an egregious overbearing and silly move by the legislature but I agree it is not such an imposition of tyranny as to warrant active resistance.

How tyrannical.

The countryside can no longer make a sport out of killing a animal.
How horrific.

Best thing Labour did tbh. That and the minimum wage .... and devolution ... oh and reform of House of Lords and N Ireland ofc

 

[Wessexman]

It was a class issue for the right as well.

I have never heard it made such. I only ever here liberals and leftists talk about class.

Because it is now illegal. As is fox hunting and rightly so.

It should not be illegal and certainly shouldn't be up to middle class, liberal urbanites.

Oh yeah, the poor fluffy things are going to dive for my throat! What a menace! We must get the dogs to tear them apart slowly whilst i am on a horse in a red jumpsuit.

Its called a bullet. USE IT.

Foxes kill poultry and make a general nuisance of themselves. So the sport is more violent than it possibly could be? That is how it has always been done and I see little reason to change it just to assuage the consciences of those who aren't even involved, hell don't even live within many miles of the event. It just isn't that bad.

 

[Metternich]

Then this is a non issue.

The law is the law. If you wish to change it, lobby your politicans but until then follow it.
If they do not follow it, face the consequences. Simple concept.

"Face the consequences?" please, we were having such a nice debate then you keep lobbing shells in like "the consequences," this is "the law" and "to jail!" Who do you think your punishing? Criminals? Get real, these terms mean something - honor, justice, Rule of Law, punishment, these are the backbones to our judicial system. You can't just throw those concepts out there like a punchline!

They mean to preserve society, enable stability, facilitate growth and yet, how does "banning" (I put quotation marks there to reflect how "effective" that banning has been, by which I mean the actual increase in the number of hunts) fox hunting do any of that?

Laws are not to be followed blindly, you must think critically and you must understand what the underlying context is - law never made a man a whit more just but it can make man a much more unjust.

 

[Goshin]

Foxes are pretty animals, but they are often a problem. Attacking domestic animals, including both fowl and pets. Not to mention, getting rabies and attacking humans.

My son was attacked by a rabid fox when he was eight or nine. Fortunately he was quick and wasn't bitten, and I was equally quick and shot Mr. Fox dead.

I've had a certain lack of sympathy for foxes since then.

 

[Wessexman]

How tyrannical.

Well that's New Labour for you.

The countryside can no longer make a sport out of killing a animal.

Just watch us.

Do you eat halal btw?

Best thing Labour did tbh. That and the minimum wage .... and devolution ... oh and reform of House of Lords and N Ireland ofc

New Labour has got precious little right, this was simple tyranny, the house of lords was a fiasco. Only devolution was a positive and they'd didn't quite get that right.

 

[Laila]

I have never heard it made such. I only ever here liberals and leftists talk about class.

It should not be illegal and certainly shouldn't be up to middle class, liberal urbanites.

Foxes kill poultry and make a general nuisance of themselves. So the sport is more violent than it possibly could be? That is how it has always been done and I see little reason to change it just to assuage the consciences of those who aren't even involved, hell don't even live within many miles of the event. It just isn't that bad.

Absolute rubbish.
It is because you are blind to it because you are pro fox hunting.
I can admit it is a class issue for both sides, can you?

So then all the sports listed above should also be legal right? Great.
Cause i have always wanted to go to a dog fight and place bets :doh

Torturing a animal for fun is disgusting. It is barbaric and it should be illegal.
You can kill a fox without getting all dressed, getting drunk and setting the dogs loose to tear it apart.

I do not care if it has been around for hundreds of years. The world changes. Adapt to it and accept it.

Why should a minority of countryside people hold the say over the majority of urbanites?

 

[Laila]

Laws are not to be followed blindly, you must think critically and you must understand what the underlying context is - law never made a man a whit more just but it can make man a much more unjust.

Laws are not to be followed blindly.
But this is one of the times where it should be followed.

No ones civil liberties are at stake here, no one is being tortured and/or killed. No need to carry arms against the Govt.

 

[Laila]

Well that's New Labour for you.

Just watch us.

Do you eat halal btw?

New Labour has got precious little right, this was simple tyranny, the house of lords was a fiasco. Only devolution was a positive and they'd didn't quite get that right.

No but i have a idea of where you would be going with it if i was.

Yep ... and i shall also watch fox hunting law be repealed the second Labour gets back into power.
Enjoy a Conservative reign ... whilst it lasts

 

[Laila]

Foxes are pretty animals, but they are often a problem. Attacking domestic animals, including both fowl and pets. Not to mention, getting rabies and attacking humans.

My son was attacked by a rabid fox when he was eight or nine. Fortunately he was quick and wasn't bitten, and I was equally quick and shot Mr. Fox dead.

I've had a certain lack of sympathy for foxes since then.

I understand that Goshin.

But do you not think a bullet and a gun can do as well a job as getting on horses and being drunk and tracking it through teh woods until the poor thing is exhausted and then siccing the dogs on it.

 

[Wessexman]

Absolute rubbish.
It is because you are blind to it because you are pro fox hunting.
I can admit it is a class issue for both sides, can you?

How is it a class-issue for the pro-side? Please explain this? If anything they have been stressing the more ecumenical side of fox-hunting.

So then all the sports listed above should also be legal right? Great.
Cause i have always wanted to go to a dog fight and place bets :doh

Nope, those are a lot more violent and not traditional practices.

I remember reading an essay by Quintin Hogg(or was it Kenneth Pickthorn?) on Fox-hunting and Conservatism. It was written just after the war, it compares conservatism to other ideologies and talks about how the conservative unlike the rest doesn't think politics is everything, he prefers the ancient religion of fox-hunting. A sad day when he doesn't even have that left.

Torturing a animal for fun is disgusting. It is barbaric and it should be illegal.
You can kill a fox without getting all dressed, getting drunk and setting the dogs loose to tear it apart.

It is not torture, don't be melodramatic. It is a little more violence than necessary but changing that is not worth the destruction to the custom.

I do not care if it has been around for hundreds of years. The world changes. Adapt to it and accept it.

No, I think not.

Why should a minority of countryside people hold the say over the majority of urbanites?

Because it only effects us. Why should you get to decide what school your children go to? Or when you get married. It is an overbearing imposition by the legislature fueled by people with small concern in the matter and smaller common sense.

 

[Wessexman]

But do you not think a bullet and a gun can do as well a job as getting on horses and being drunk and tracking it through teh woods until the poor thing is exhausted and then siccing the dogs on it.

I think you've lost quite a bit of credibility here(well a lot went with the Toff remarks already.).

 

[Laila]

Because it only effects us. Why should you get to decide what school your children go to? Or when you get married. It is an overbearing imposition by the legislature fueled by people with small concern in the matter and smaller common sense.

Oh have you really?
Economic side for who exactly?
The landowners i am sure.

It has been changed to prevent that violence.
I accepted fox hunting as dogs were forbidden to join in and the people hunting must kill the foxes themselves.
Now the damn tories wish to repeal what Labour did and bring it back to unnecessary violence.

So then the country shouldn't get no say over London and other cities right? Because it only affects us ....

 

[Laila]

I think you've lost quite a bit of credibility here(well a lot went with the Toff remarks already.).

The fox hunting debate brings out the emotion in me.
I hate the idea of blood sports at all.