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Tories "will scrap hunting ban"

Laila said:
Oh have you really?
Economic side for who exactly?
The landowners i am sure.
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This is not showing how we have made it a class issue. Even if you are correct and it is mostly done by toffs that doesn't make it a class issue necessarily. To make it a class issue is to base your arguments on class lines, like you are doing.

It has been changed to prevent that violence.
I accepted fox hunting as dogs were forbidden to join in and the people hunting must kill the foxes themselves.
Now the damn tories wish to repeal what Labour did and bring it back to unnecessary violence.
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And about time too. A little violence to a menace is worth the restoration of the custom in my book.

So then the country shouldn't get no say over London and other cities right? Because it only affects us ....
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I'm a decentralist, I agree with that when it is appropriate.
 
Laila said:
The fox hunting debate brings out the emotion in me.
I hate the idea of blood sports at all.
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I see little wrong with them as long as they are within reason and a traditional practice; part of the ritual of a region or country. Humans hunt animals, I see no need to change that for a few middle-class urbanites. Fox-hunting is an extremely traditional practice and has a very important place in many country communities, I place that far above the little bit of violence to a few foxes.
 
Wessexman said:
I place that far above the little bit of violence to a few foxes.
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I do not which is why we differ on this issue Wessex and there is little chance of us changing each others mind.
 
Laila said:
Absolute rubbish.
It is because you are blind to it because you are pro fox hunting.
I can admit it is a class issue for both sides, can you?

So then all the sports listed above should also be legal right? Great.
Cause i have always wanted to go to a dog fight and place bets :doh

Torturing a animal for fun is disgusting. It is barbaric and it should be illegal.
You can kill a fox without getting all dressed, getting drunk and setting the dogs loose to tear it apart.

I do not care if it has been around for hundreds of years. The world changes. Adapt to it and accept it.

Why should a minority of countryside people hold the say over the majority of urbanites?
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I'm not "pro-fox hunting," I'm just against laws that have no hope of working. It's as if the government decided to outlaw stepping on the cracks in concrete. It's silly, won't be followed, will merely inconvenience a few - while causing people to unnecessarily resent their government. It's just a perfect example of bad logic, poor execution.

A class-issue? I need too pick a side? Sorry, this isn't dodgeball - it's called Life.

Dog-fighting, **** fighting, all another debate for another time. If this law sought to repeal them, then sure - why not discuss them? As it is, I think I'll avoid this useless side track by definition.

Disgusting should not, can not, be a definition of law. "Eww, homeless people are just disgusting, don't you think?"

You may not care, but apparently - quite a few people do.

"Hold sway?" You're doing it again, throwing out those eccentric bombshells. We aren't talking about feudal manors here, we're talking about a law that will affect only rural people - why, even, urbanites get a say is just counterintuitive.
 
Laila said:
I do not which is why we differ on this issue Wessex and there is little chance of us changing each others mind.
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However, and no offence, but I do not consider it your business as I believe you reside in London.

And you didn't answer my question. Do you eat halal? Some would consider that a needlessly violent or painful practice that is a extremely traditional.
 
Wessexman said:
However, and no offence, but I do not consider it your business as I believe you reside in London.

And you didn't answer my question. Do you eat halal? Some would consider that a needlessly violent or painful practice that is a extremely traditional.
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I already stated no. I do not eat it in London.

It is my business tyvm. Animal welfare is always a issue for the Govt. and RSPCA.
 
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Come on. Tradition before the environment? For Christ sakes Wessexman, there is a boundary to preserving and engaging our culture.
 
Fox hunting is an ancient British country pursuit .
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Well yeah, but so is that whole serf and lord thing but we don't do that any more either.:mrgreen:

I think I may have a rather unique perspective to share about this one. I came from a socialist background in a city in 70's Britain till age 14, then onto a very country lifestyle from then onwards. So anyway, I can tell you that the foxhunt was a bloody nightmare for those who weren't part of it. They once totally destroyed our veggie garden by simply riding through it after a fox. I've got lots of little anecdotes like that, if you'd like to hear them. Conversely, I don't know if that makes it a class issue or not but someone apparently gave them the idea that it was ok to just ride their horses across someones work.:confused:
FWIW, they didn't catch it AND they lost their pack of hounds when the fox swam across one of the UK's largest rivers.:mrgreen:

It seems to me that the greatest "thrill" of foxhunting is the chase. It can't be the pest control and I say that knowing that any animals we lost to foxes were just the rhythm of life in the country. All that "damage" and stuff they speak of was really minimal when you're talking about a chicken farm or whatever. After one "attack", the best way to minimise damage is beef up the security. I don't see why they can't get the thrill without chasing some creature hell for leather for very little in the way of real pest control.
 
kaya'08 said:
So when the foxes run out then what? :doh
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They'd probably have to regulate it like hunting in the US. Honestly, if some people want to go out and shoot foxes in reasonable numbers that don't threaten their population, why is this the government's business?

BTW Laila, the one making this a "class issue" is you.
 
kaya'08 said:
Come on. Tradition before the environment? For Christ sakes Wessexman, there is a boundary to preserving and engaging our culture.
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This has little to do with the environment and anyway Foxes are often a nuisance and need to be culled.

Fox-hunting is very much an important part of rural British culture and tradition. As I mentioned Quintin Hogg once called it a religion among conservatives. The boundary sure as hell isn't at giving in to middle-class, liberal urbanites over such an ancient tradition in many communities.
 
Ennyone said:
Well yeah, but so is that whole serf and lord thing but we don't do that any more either.:mrgreen:

I think I may have a rather unique perspective to share about this one. I came from a socialist background in a city in 70's Britain till age 14, then onto a very country lifestyle from then onwards. So anyway, I can tell you that the foxhunt was a bloody nightmare for those who weren't part of it. They once totally destroyed our veggie garden by simply riding through it after a fox. I've got lots of little anecdotes like that, if you'd like to hear them. Conversely, I don't know if that makes it a class issue or not but someone apparently gave them the idea that it was ok to just ride their horses across someones work.:confused:
FWIW, they didn't catch it AND they lost their pack of hounds when the fox swam across one of the UK's largest rivers.:mrgreen:

It seems to me that the greatest "thrill" of foxhunting is the chase. It can't be the pest control and I say that knowing that any animals we lost to foxes were just the rhythm of life in the country. All that "damage" and stuff they speak of was really minimal when you're talking about a chicken farm or whatever. After one "attack", the best way to minimise damage is beef up the security. I don't see why they can't get the thrill without chasing some creature hell for leather for very little in the way of real pest control.
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In some ways I agree but I like most conservatrive countryfolk are not about to cowed by some wet urbanites. That sort of thing simply makes people stubborn and dig in. I'd like to see as little harm come to the fox as possible without destroying the tradition and without it being forced upon us by people with little concern in the matter.
 
Laila said:
I already stated no. I do not eat it in London.
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You might be willing to give up on your culture, I certainly am not.

It is my business tyvm. Animal welfare is always a issue for the Govt. and RSPCA.
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Rubbish, a bit of violence to foxes is not the business of people who have little contact with the entire area.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
BTW Laila, the one making this a "class issue" is you.
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'Shoot foxes'? I beg your pardon?
Do you know how their 'culling' happens?
They get dressed up, drink wine. Then let loose a pack of dogs to chase teh fox until it is exhausted then kill it and/or tear it apart.

They do not do it for culling. They do it for sport. Difference.
It is one thing killing to protect farm animals, go ahead. Bullet to the head.
There are other methods of killing a animal.

And at least i have the good grace to be honest about it. Wessex seems in denial when he says there is no class issue undertones for both sides.
 
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Wessexman said:
You might be willing to give up on your culture, I certainly am not.

Rubbish, a bit of violence to foxes is not the business of people who have little contact with the entire area.
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Killing a animal in a painful way is no way in my culture.
I do not think animals should be slaughtered like that.
 
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Wessexman said:
In some ways I agree but I like most conservatrive countryfolk are not about to cowed by some wet urbanites.
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Who holds the most monopoly?

Don't lie and say it is for protection of other animals. There are no doubt more effective and less bloody ways to put a fox to sleep. It is done for fun, just admit it.
 
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Wessexman said:
This has little to do with the environment and anyway Foxes are often a nuisance and need to be culled.
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This statement just goes to show you are yet to study what an ecosystem is and how every animal and its numbers play a significant role in the enviournment.

Fox-hunting is very much an important part of rural British culture and tradition. As I mentioned Quintin Hogg once called it a religion among conservatives. The boundary sure as hell isn't at giving in to middle-class, liberal urbanites over such an ancient tradition in many communities.
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I don't care. This hunting is causing excessive loss of numbers in the fox population and its harming every other natural balance in the countryside. Just because your odd upper class English folk likes to jump on Daddy's horse and kill foxes for the sake of killing foxes, doesn't make it right and your also not justifying it by telling me its part of British tradition.

DrunkenAsparagus said:
They'd probably have to regulate it like hunting in the US. Honestly, if some people want to go out and shoot foxes in reasonable numbers that don't threaten their population, why is this the government's business?
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The numbers are being threatened thats the whole point.

BTW Laila, the one making this a "class issue" is you.
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Lol, well, i for one wont deny the upper crust in society tend to engage in this sport more.
 
Laila said:
Tories "will scrap hunting ban" - Telegraph

Nice to see Tories still know how to make this a class issue and where their priority lies.
What the hell? Only toffs go gallivanting off to tear a fox apart in a red suit all done up :/
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Exactly. They claim it's essential for keeping the fox population under control, but there's a lot more efficient and cost effective ways of doing so then getting dressed up in your Sunday best and prancing around on horses. The ban should be kept in place. Fox hunting of this kind is a deeply cruel and unnecessary practice.

And I'm not saying this as some "big city" type ignorant of the way of life in the country side: I live in a farming valley. My school had a tractor-driving club, for god sake. I think most farmers would agree that their are far kinder and cost effective was to deal with the fox problem.
 
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Metternich said:
"Face the law?" you must be confused with "face a frivolous fine!" These aren't criminals, they're just a growing population of people interested in a old traditional practice that happens to be quite fun. Chasing down the fox is fun ? Strikes me a very strange; but then, I am on the pond's other side, where be hunt deer.. The deer are destructive, we are their only predator..

I'm all for supporting the Rule of Law, but when so-called 'law' extends itself into harmless recreation one has too take a step back and wonder if creating a law that makes so many criminals overnight, without even affecting the actual practice, is really the best use of resources.
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Are the fox destructive ?
I do agree, of course, that a law(such as ours against marijuana) that creates a criminal is, in itself criminal..
 
When I was young we lived in a farming area, my Mum kept chickens, ducks and geese.

The nearest Hunt was 40 mls away, if we had problems with a fox we tracked it and shot it, if the neighboring farm had problems with dogs worrying sheep we tracked them and shot them.

The reason we did not have a hunt was, the farmers near us were not tenant's, they could resist the pressure and refuse this activity to happen.

It is far harder for the tenant of a landowner to resist.

My brother owned 5 acres of wood next to his house nr Frencham Ponds Surrey.

We fenced it, the Hunt wrote and asked for permission to hunt on it, he refused, it lead to a confrontation, they were prosecuted for trespass and criminal damage. The police advised us as newcomers to drop the case and live a peaceful life, we did not.
 
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Laila said:
Killing a animal in a painful way is no way in my culture.
I do not think animals should be slaughtered like that.
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Just curious, would you ban fishing?

How about preparing lobster by throwing it, while still living, into a boiling pot?

.
 
kaya'08 said:
This statement just goes to show you are yet to study what an ecosystem is and how every animal and its numbers play a significant role in the enviournment.
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Including man.....



I don't care
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I do.

This hunting is causing excessive loss of numbers in the fox population
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No it isn't.
and its harming every other natural balance in the countryside.
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No it isn't.
Just because your odd upper class English folk likes to jump on Daddy's horse and kill foxes for the sake of killing foxes, doesn't make it right and your also not justifying it by telling me its part of British tradition.
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No offense but I don't think you know much about fox hunting or its place in the countryside.



The numbers are being threatened thats the whole point.
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No it isn't. The point is a few liberal urbanites don't like foxes being hunted.


Lol, well, i for one wont deny the upper crust in society tend to engage in this sport more.
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So?
 
B L Zeebub said:
When I was young we lived in a farming area, my Mum kept chickens, ducks and geese.

The nearest Hunt was 40 mls away, if we had problems with a fox we tracked it and shot it, if the neighboring farm had problems with dogs worrying sheep we tracked them and shot them.

The reason we did not have a hunt was, the farmers near us were not tenant's, they could resist the pressure and refuse this activity to happen.

It is far harder for the tenant of a landowner to resist.

My brother owned 5 acres of wood next to his house nr Frencham Ponds Surrey.

We fenced it, the Hunt wrote and asked for permission to hunt on it, he refused, it lead to a confrontation, they were prosecuted for trespass and criminal damage. The police advised us as newcomers to drop the case and live a peaceful life, we did not.
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Yes and ramblers like to roam all over other people's property, that is a different discussion. I find it ironic a supporter of Wedgewood Benn is taking up a pro-private property argument.
 
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