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Tories "will scrap hunting ban"

Laila said:
'Shoot foxes'? I beg your pardon?
Do you know how their 'culling' happens?
They get dressed up, drink wine. Then let loose a pack of dogs to chase teh fox until it is exhausted then kill it and/or tear it apart.
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Are you asking for genuine information? Because it sure as hell seems like you have little knowledge of fox hunting.

No doubt they eat caviar and beat their servants before hand as well.....

And at least i have the good grace to be honest about it. Wessex seems in denial when he says there is no class issue undertones for both sides.
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You seem confused on what a class issue is. Even if we accept it is more practiced by the rich than the rest of countryfolk it does not make it a class issue. A class issue is when you start attacking people on class lines for it. Only you have done that.

And actually as I have highlighted the opposition tends to come from middle class urbanites anyway. These people are hardly part of the lumpen proletariat.
 
Laila said:
Oh but it is.
Welcome to the real world where politics has no limit on its reach.
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A sentiment worthy of Rousseau himself. Conservatives think rather differently. Liberty requires limits to gov't power and a necessary amount of subsidiarity and also limits to the very reach of politics in its more overt forms.
 
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Wessexman said:
Are you asking for genuine information? Because it sure as hell seems like you have little knowledge of fox hunting.
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Actually LBC (radio station) Jeni did a whole 2 hours on this topic with someone from countryside alliance there answering questions.
 
Wessexman said:
Including man.....
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Yes, good thing mans survival isn't dependant among Fox hunting.


I do.
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You care because you wish to see the continuation of an inhumane practice. As much as you'd like to, you cant ignore animal rights.

No it isn't.
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Yes it is.


No it isn't.
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The fox is part of the countrysides ecosystem. Even a small decline in numbers can put everything out of balance.

No offense but I don't think you know much about fox hunting or its place in the countryside.
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You've gathered that from me being against it...how?


So?
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I just quoted someone saying Laila is making it into a class issue though she isn't exactly wrong for saying your posh folk from the countryside tend to engage in the sport more.
 
Laila said:
Actually LBC (radio station) Jeni did a whole 2 hours on this topic with someone from countryside alliance there answering questions.
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Were they drunk as well? Did they beat their servants during the interview or merely come from such a past time.

This kind of stuff isn't worthy of even the most vulgar Soviet propaganda.
 
Wessexman said:
Were they drunk as well? Did they beat their servants during the interview or merely come from such a past time.

This kind of stuff isn't worthy of even the most vulgar Soviet propaganda.
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Who beat their servant?
Dude. No one mentioned servants here lol

And no they were ... nice, really nice.
But ofc i would be too if i was trying to influence the thinking of hundreds of thousands of londoners who listen to LBC.
 
Wessexman said:
Yes and ramblers like to roam all over other people's property, that is a different discussion. I find it ironic a supporter of Wedgewood Benn is taking up a pro-private property argument.
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Why, no public foot path ran through my brothers land. I support the laws of the land.
 
kaya'08 said:
Yes, good thing mans survival isn't dependant among Fox hunting.
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Indeed.



You care because you wish to see the continuation of an inhumane practice. As much as you'd like to, you cant ignore animal rights.
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Foxes aren't humans, so the term inhumane is somewhat out of place. The anthropomorphizing of animals is a problem with liberal urbanites and their lack of understanding of such topics. Hence the rise of vegetarianism, a pretty much urban phenomenon.


Yes it is.
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I thought it was banned?:confused:



The fox is part of the countrysides ecosystem. Even a small decline in numbers can put everything out of balance
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And yet the countryside has survived for centuries. If you want to have these kinds of discussions then fox hunting is the least of our worries.


You've gathered that from me being against it...how?
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Because of the out of place class war rhetoric being used.

It is part of country tradition. It has long been an important part of life in many rural communities and though I support lessening the violence done to foxes I still support the practice because of its important place and because of the inaccurate and authoritarian attacks being made against it. If the critics were more informed and more reasonable then no doubt a compromise would be a lot easier but this crude propaganda and class war rhetoric simply leads many of us to dig our heals in.

I just quoted someone saying Laila is making it into a class issue though she isn't exactly wrong for saying your posh folk from the countryside tend to engage in the sport more.
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So? That doesn't make it a class issue. A class issue only becomes one when an attack is made based on class or at least a class is being disadvantaged.
 
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Laila said:
Who beat their servant?
Dude. No one mentioned servants here lol
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I was caricaturing your argument.

And no they were ... nice, really nice.
But ofc i would be too if i was trying to influence the thinking of hundreds of thousands of londoners who listen to LBC.
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Hmm that's an idea, maybe we could hunt Londoners instead...although the fox is smart, I would draw the line at dumb beasts:2razz:
 
Wessexman said:
Indeed.
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So why mention that?


Foxes aren't humans, so the term inhumane is somewhat out of place. The anthropomorphizing of animals is a problem with liberal urbanites and their lack of understanding of such topics. Hence the rise of vegetarianism, a pretty much urban phenomenon.
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The word inhumane is used to describe someone who engages in an act that is wrong or evil. We're hunting the foxes, they're not hunting us.


I thought it was banned?:confused:
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It is. Im talking about the scenario before hand, however.



And yet the countryside has survived for centuries. If you want to have these kinds of discussions then fox hunting is the least of our worries.
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Yes, and thats why we are in the **** now. Because we've been killing these animals for centuries.



Because of the out of place class war rhetoric being used.

It is part of country tradition. It has long been an important part of life in many rural communities and though I support lessening the violence done to foxes I still support the practice because of its important place and because of the inaccurate and authoritarian attacks being made against it.
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If its an important part of your life to kill an animal then you have no life. How is fox hunting, its cruelty aside, important? Your just making it up now. Its a silly, viscous practice and the only argument you country boys have is "its an important part of our lives!!".


If the critics were more informed and more reasonable then no doubt a compromise would be a lot easier but this crude propaganda and class war rhetoric simply lead many of us to dig our heals in.
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Your violating animal rights. Its a set of laws in this country. With or without the ban, the practice is technically illegal. For as long as we have animal rights, the ban should be in place.

So? That doesn't make it a class issue. A class issue only becomes one when an attack is made based on class or at least a class is being disadvantaged.
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Im not saying its a class issue i just made the statement.
 
Wessexman said:
I was caricaturing your argument.

Hmm that's an idea, maybe we could hunt Londoners instead...although the fox is smart, I would draw the line at dumb beasts:2razz:
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:rofl

Oh that got a chuckle out of me.

Also funny seeing London is the powerhouse of UK, where is the financial centre again? In the country? Oh no. That is where people who inherited wealth live. ;)
 
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Wessexman said:
Hmm that's an idea, maybe we could hunt Londoners instead...although the fox is smart, I would draw the line at dumb beasts:2razz:
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...did that comment just come from a country boy?

Last time i checked, London was the center of financial commerce and English civilization.
 
Wessexman said:
And irrelevant arguments....

If you don't support foxes being hunted on your land then they should not be.
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Why not they were there before me, we had a badger set as well, it was great, the local primary school and the scouts and guides used to love to camp on it, we also placed Tit boxes on the trees and sowed many pounds of woodland flower seeds, my brothers kids, along with many other adults and children loved the place, it was so tranquil.
 
Laila said:
:rofl

Oh that got a chuckle out of me.

Also funny seeing London is the powerhouse of UK, where is the financial centre again? In the country? Oh no. That is where people who inherited wealth live. ;)
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Well, leaving aside the inconsistency of your class war rhetoric and celebration of the city, you are talking to a distributist. Corporate-capitalism is not my ideal.
 
Wessexman said:
That is Wessex I'll have you know. You guys would be speaking Danish if it wasn't for us:2razz:.
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:rofl

... Damn we need to think of a comeback :(
 
Wessexman said:
That is Wessex I'll have you know. You guys would be speaking Danish if it wasn't for us:2razz:.
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As far as Wessex goes, lets just say you have the beauty and we have the brains. ;)
 
Laila said:
What is your ideal?
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From what i gather of Wessexman, a descentralized government, more regionalized governments, an independent British sovereign. Basically what most of your standard England loving folks want, like me.
 
kaya'08 said:
From what i gather of Wessexman, a descentralized government, more regionalized governments, an independent British sovereign. Basically what most of your standard England loving folks want, like me.
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So a US type federal system?
So boroughs get power or areas?
SE or Bromley for example.

And independent as in removed entirely from EU?
 
kaya'08 said:
So why mention that?
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Because you were getting perilously close to an argument that could have been classed as primitivist.

I'm quite the ecologist but I do believe man will always have to make quite a lot of an impact on the environment for his needs. Also this argument of yours is inconsistent with the championship of the city. Hell it is inconsistent with such a megatroplis as what is now London.




The word inhumane is used to describe someone who engages in an act that is wrong or evil. We're hunting the foxes, they're not hunting us.
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I hunt deer and rabbits as well(well I don't personally hunt foxes anyway.). We recognise different sets of behaviour between humans and humans and animals, or most of us do.



It is. Im talking about the scenario before hand, however.
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Proof? Foxes have often been culled, I can't imagine fox hunting making up for anywhere near the level of a proper cull.


Yes, and thats why we are in the **** now. Because we've been killing these animals for centuries.
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They seem to be thriving to me.



If its an important part of your life to kill an animal then you have no life. How is fox hunting, its cruelty aside, important?
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Its place within the community as a past-time and ritual.


Your just making it up now. Its a silly, viscous practice and the only argument you country boys have is "its an important part of our lives!!".
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I'm certainly not making it up. I understand the history of fox-hunting unlike most of those on the anti-side. As Quintin Hogg said 60 years ago, fox-hunting was a form of religion to many conservatives, it certainly had a very important ritual and communal place.




Your violating animal rights. Its a set of laws in this country. With or without the ban, the practice is technically illegal. For as long as we have animal rights, the ban should be in place.
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I disagree. A little bit of violence towards Foxes seems fine to me in the circumstances and we are discussing the Tory's pledge to rightfully remove the ban.


Im not saying its a class issue i just made the statement.
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The only people making it a class issue are the antis.
 
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Laila said:
So a US type federal system?
So boroughs get power or areas?
SE or Bromley for example.
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I believe in giving power to the historic regions of England but most importantly I believe in social conservatism, decentralised gov't and society and a decentalised, distirbutist economy.

And independent as in removed entirely from EU?
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That goes with saying. Like most Brits I'm eurosceptic.
 
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