• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Teen Fears Honor Killing by Muslim Father

Better blind than ignorant, at least I can hear and feel... and smell a troll from a distance

What is a troll in your opinion?
 
Before that happens there will be fighting and strife such as in all the Muslim countries where fundies fight for greater power.

So are we going to tag team with the hispanics to reign supreme over US?

I CALL NEW YORK!
My territory.
 
I think you are ignorant and slightly amusing.

I'm glad to amuse you but I'm sincere in my fear of what I perceive Islam's goals to be.
 
So are we going to tag team with the hispanics to reign supreme over US?

I CALL NEW YORK!
My territory.

Need I point out the difference between Islam and Hispanics?

The perfect Hispanic does not wish to overthrow our system of government.
 
I'm glad to amuse you but I'm sincere in my fear of what I perceive Islam's goals to be.

To take over the United States of America and to feed fertilisers to the remaining Indians.
 
Last edited:
Except for Agnapostate, that is. Have you met my friend El Cid? I think you two shall be bosom buddies.

We are dependent on the majority of Muslims being imperfect Muslims in order for them to be benign to us Kaffirs. We hope that our culture will be sufficiently corrosive to fundamental Islamic culture and religion to protect us from their 'excess baggage'.
 
To take over the United States of America and to feed fertilisers to the remaining Indians.

The steps that occur toward that end are predictable and unpleasant.
 
We are dependent on the majority of Muslims being imperfect Muslims in order for them to be benign to us Kaffirs. We hope that our culture will be sufficiently corrosive to fundamental Islamic culture and religion to protect us from their 'excess baggage'.

You're in deep trouble, they come with their excess baggage and some baklava too
 
The steps that occur toward that end are predictable and unpleasant.

Well, my advice to you is, better choose to convert to Shamanism than Islam. The feathers are much more fun.
 
I was trying to find the verses referenced by SgtRock.

I assume when he was quoting "Quran 4:90" or "4:91" that he was referring to the fourth Sura, which is Surah an-Nisa yes?

4:90 and 4:91...

90. Except those who join a group, between you and whom there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with their breasts restraining from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. Had Allâh willed, indeed He would have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they withdraw from you, and fight not against you, and offer you peace, then Allâh has opened no way for you against them.

91. You will find others that wish to have security from you and security from their people. Every time they are sent back to temptation, they yield thereto. If they withdraw not from you, nor offer you peace, nor restrain their hands, take (hold) of them and kill them wherever you find them. In their case, We have provided you with a clear warrant against them.


Neither of which appears to be what he was quoting, even accounting for a different translation.

However, 4:88-89 (Surah an-Nisa 88-89) are much closer:

88. Then what is the matter with you that you are divided into two parties about the hypocrites? Allâh has cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they have earned. Do you want to guide him whom Allâh has made to go astray? And he whom Allâh has made to go astray, you will never find for him any way (of guidance).

89. They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected (Faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Auliyâ' (protectors or friends) from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allâh (to Muhammad ). But if they turn back (from Islâm), take (hold) of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither Auliyâ' (protectors or friends) nor helpers from them.


That does seem to be saying that those who leave Islam should be killed. However, I don't claim to be an expert on the Quran, though I have read a lot of it and about it; if someone has an alternate interpretation, I'm listening.

The Holy Quran online


G.
 
Well, my advice to you is, better choose to convert to Shamanism than Islam. The feathers are much more fun.

Funny thing is that there are only a few things I don't like about Islam.

The traditional enmity toward, Gays, Jews and Kaffirs, the cultural honor killings, the domination of women, death sentences for apostasy and the edict requiring they gain mastery over all mankind through non-violent or violent Jihad.
 
I was trying to find the verses referenced by SgtRock.

I assume when he was quoting "Quran 4:90" or "4:91" that he was referring to the fourth Sura, which is Surah an-Nisa yes?

4:90 and 4:91...




Neither of which appears to be what he was quoting, even accounting for a different translation.

However, 4:88-89 (Surah an-Nisa 88-89) are much closer:




That does seem to be saying that those who leave Islam should be killed. However, I don't claim to be an expert on the Quran, though I have read a lot of it and about it; if someone has an alternate interpretation, I'm listening.

The Holy Quran online


G.

Sorry to be doing this Goshin, but here's my earlier post again. Hope this helps.

----
It is true that Islamic countries need alot of reform but the majority of Muslims do not apply what's in the book word by word.

In Islam, the only 3 reasons given for killing another Muslim is, adultary, killing another human (eye for an eye...) and abandoning Islam. However, it is also said that a person shall only be killed after being judged. Also, and this is important to know, there is no Islamic law that permits a person to take the authority of a judge in his own hands. A person cannot try another person and condemn him to death, only a court can. Therefore the term "honour killings" in Islam in basically utter tosh.

Now, I'm not saying that these laws are not shocking, they are and that is why I started this post by saying that Islamic countries need reform and as I've said many times, the Koran was written in another time and another context. What seemed fair at that time, looks shocking in our time.

That said, there is no proof that the father threatend his daughter, but yes, even if there is a minor chance that she might get killed or hurt, she should not be returned to her family because these crimes, due to IGNORANCE, do exist.
----
 
As to Islam regarding other religion, there is one Surat in the Koran which is memorised by Muslims and repeated all the time

Say: Unbelievers, I do not serve what you worship, nor do you serve what I worship. I shall never serve what you worship, nor will you ever serve what I worship. You have your own religion and I have mine.

In Arabic, Lakom Dinukum wa li Dini.
 
I'm probably 20 pages too late, but did anybody mention God telling Abraham to kill his own son? Perhaps this scenario would be pretty similar (except, oh no- it's not a Christian).
 
Funny thing is that there are only a few things I don't like about Islam.

The traditional enmity toward, Gays, Jews and Kaffirs, the cultural honor killings, the domination of women, death sentences for apostasy and the edict requiring they gain mastery over all mankind through non-violent or violent Jihad.

Gays: not exclussive to Islam or to religion

Jews: Wasn't it the Christians who deprived the Jews from land ownership because they didn't accept Christ as the son of God but rather as the king of the Jesws ?

Kafirs: in Arabic Kafer, see my post above

Honour kiliings: see me second post above

Women: Women are very highly respected in the Koran. The part that seem shocking is the beating. It appears in only one verse which I will gladly copy. It sounds shocking to me as well

Death sentence: 3 cases only in the Koran. Adultary, killing of another human and abandoning Islam. Different age different context. Shocking to me as well.

Jihad: 2 kinds of Jihad Jihad al Akbar (greater Jihad)- the inward jihad, the aim of each Muslim to become a better human being
Jihad al-Asghar (lesser Jihad) self preservation and self defence. Do you know any people who doesn't defend itself ?

All of that said and since you said that you dislike only a few things about Islma, so tell us, what is it that you like and admire ?
 
Last edited:
I'm probably 20 pages too late, but did anybody mention God telling Abraham to kill his own son? Perhaps this scenario would be pretty similar (except, oh no- it's not a Christian).

Not quite as relevant when you consider that God stopped Abram (Abraham) from sacrificing his son before it was actually done. It was a test of his loyalty and devotion that stopped short of actually killing the young man.

So no, not quite the same thing.
 
Not quite as relevant when you consider that God stopped Abram (Abraham) from sacrificing his son before it was actually done. It was a test of his loyalty and devotion that stopped short of actually killing the young man.

So no, not quite the same thing.

God was slightly heartless to test someones faith using their child

I'd choose my child over anyone else
 
Funny thing is that there are only a few things I don't like about Islam.

The traditional enmity toward, Gays, Jews and Kaffirs, the cultural honor killings, the domination of women, death sentences for apostasy and the edict requiring they gain mastery over all mankind through non-violent or violent Jihad.

If women were truly treated as badly as some of you claim with us being battered around and treated like filth, made to cover up (lol)

I wouldn't be a Muslim.

So what do you like about Islam now that we know what you dislike.
 
Last edited:
God was slightly heartless to test someones faith using their child

I'd choose my child over anyone else

The Bible is full of symbols Laila.
 
What symbol is that then?
Sacrifice?

To put God's will above all else. The ultimate test. He slaughtered a sheep instead. poor sheep :(

Now you see (the other postres) when the Muslims slaughter a sheep on Eid al Adha, it is to be distributed to the needy.
 
To put God's will above all else. The ultimate test. He slaughtered a sheep instead. poor sheep :(

Now you see (the other postres) when the Muslims slaughter a sheep on Eid al Adha, it is to be distributed to the needy.

I can't.
I'm in UK where such things are not allowed :(

I have to settle with just giving money and time to the poor.
 
I can't.
I'm in UK where such things are not allowed :(

I have to settle with just giving money and time to the poor.

By the way laila, tell me if this is true. Someone told me that in some Muslim traditions, when a member of the family dies, the missing person's portion of food is still prepared but given to a needy person. Have you heard of such a thing ?
 
Back
Top Bottom