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FACT CHECK: White House ignores health concession

Just read page 245 and while I don't understand all of it there's nothing there that would lead me to believe ALL drs. regardless of specialty are going to be paid the same. Perhaps all will be paid the same for the same procedure code? Makes sense. Private insurers do this. There's a dx book and a procedural code book. All drs. who contract to accept a certain insurance agree to the procedural price sheet. The insurance company tell them this is what we pay for this procedure. That's normal. It's that way now.
 
I'd be happy to. Check the actual pages if you think this is just fear mongering.


• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.

Wherever you copied and pasted your list from, they are lying to you. I only needed get this far before I found one I know is a lie.

Source: Seven Falsehoods About Health Care | FactCheck.org

quote from actual bill:

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

In other words, illegal aliens are not covered.

It is always a good idea to fact check before assuming a source is honest. It too me less than 5 minutes to discover that your list is not nearly accurate.
 
Wherever you copied and pasted your list from, they are lying to you. I only needed get this far before I found one I know is a lie.

Source: Seven Falsehoods About Health Care | FactCheck.org

quote from actual bill:



In other words, illegal aliens are not covered.

It is always a good idea to fact check before assuming a source is honest. It too me less than 5 minutes to discover that your list is not nearly accurate.
Yeah so for 4 of the 5 things I decided to go check out were false. :roll:
 
Yeah so for 4 of the 5 things I decided to go check out were false. :roll:

It makes it really hard to discuss the bill, since people are shouting out so many falsehoods. I find it shameful what politics is like in this country these days. Why cannot politicians try something old fashioned like, you know, honesty.
 
I'd be happy to. Check the actual pages if you think this is just fear mongering.

• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure
Correct...to ensure the health care policies they provide to their employees meet the minimum mandated standards as adopted by the Health Choices Administration's Commissionor, if any, as recommended by the Health Choices Advisory Committee. The key thing to remember here is once/if the HCR bill is passed as currently outlined, every insurance policy will have to meet minimum standards across the board. This is to ensure everyone receives the same benefits according to which level of health care coverage you accept, not necessarily at the same price. In other words, a basic plan issued in NY must contain the same basic benefit coverage as a plan in CA, but because they are in different regions of the country, the market would still dictate the overall cost of these plans. Right now, a basic plan in one part of the country could be vastly different from an identical plan in another part of the country but at a much higher cost. Sure, it's the free market system, but it also means that somebody might not be receiving adequate care at a fair price.
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get.
Again, it's a review of health benefits (treatment, medicines, etc.) to ensure every health insurance plan at various levels contain the same level of benefits. Nothing more. Bad benefits get removed; good fbnefits are retained; better benefits are added. What's wrong with that?
• Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you.
See above...
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
WRONG!!! NO illegal alien will receive benefits nor credits to be used to offset the purchase of health care under this bill. (See section 246 of the bill.)
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
This was a proposal, not a mandate. But why would this be a problem considering that everyone is issued a health insurance card from their insurance company anyway?
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
Untrue. The reform bill only recommends that EFT/payment using debit cards be implimented to aid in prompt payment of medical bills, but this in no way implies that the government will have access to anyone's bank accounts.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans
Another untruth as the HCR bill does not say that all non-profit organizations will receives gov't subsidizes to help offset the cost of health care; only "non-profit groups/associations". While it could be construed that unions fall under this criteria, it's a bit of a stretch considering unions don't offer health care plans. They may lobby for improved benefits, but they don't offer health insurance.
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
This is true, and rightly so. If you're going to offer insurance their the public option, you must ensure your health care policies comply with current health care benefit standards.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange.
Not true. If you're a private insurance company, your only requirement would be to ensure you offer health care benefits equal to that of the Health Insurance Exchange, as recommended by the Commissionor. But private insurance companyies are NOT required to participate in the HIE. They can, however, provide a health benefits plan alongside what they provide as a private insurer, but they aren't required to provide the public option if what they offer is better.
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services (for illegal aliens).
Yes, but only insofar as to ensure that members of the Hispanic community can understand the benefit package before them. This does NOT imply that illegal aliens will be afforded health care under the HIE. This country has always provided bi-lingual literature on a variety of topics. Why should this be any different?
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled.
Yes, but there are a few caveats with this. 1. It's at the state's discretion since Medicaid is a joint-venture between the gov't and the state; and 2. Only if approved by the Commissioner, and only in those instances where the individual is a non-traditional Medicaid individual. (I'm still trying to figure out who these such people are and how they qualify.)
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly.
I'll have to get back to you on that one. I don't think you're quoating the issue quite right.
• Page 127: The government will set all wages.
Correct, for the HIE only.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan.
Only if they don't offer private insurance.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
You got it part-right. The bill would allow part-time employees to receive health care coverage through the HIE, but the employers would NOT be flipping the bill for said coverage. The cost would still come out of the employee's pocket. Now, there is a provision that says that the small-business employeer could contribute to the HIE in lieu of paying towards an employee's health care, but that doesn't mean that the employer flips the bill entirely. Regardless, major companies are already paying a substaintial portion of their employee's health insurance. What's the difference here?
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll.
Correct. Every company does this already per the 1986 IRS law.
• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
See above
• Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t’ have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
I believe I read that, too, and was thinking 'WTF?!?" I wonder how they'd know who's covered and who's not?

From here on I can't comment because my reading has only gone so far (up to page 150)

Don't get me wrong, I think there are problems aplenty with healthcare, but THIS was not the way to fix it.
 
It makes it really hard to discuss the bill, since people are shouting out so many falsehoods. I find it shameful what politics is like in this country these days. Why cannot politicians try something old fashioned like, you know, honesty.

Well, even before that, I'd rather there just be a general recognition that people who disagree with you politically are not automatically dumb or evil. That would be the first step toward honesty.
 
It makes it really hard to discuss the bill, since people are shouting out so many falsehoods. I find it shameful what politics is like in this country these days. Why cannot politicians try something old fashioned like, you know, honesty.

Well it is a shame that the public option may now be dead in the water not because the public rejected it for what it is, but because they are hysterical and have no idea what it is. Rather than crazed townhalls I would have preferred to see some real back and forth tweaking the bill a bit more. Genuine contention over real issues with the bill vs all this , "It's gonna euthanize grandma and cover illegal Mexicans for free, " crapola.
 
Force - explain that.

Mandatory Health Insurance or get fined. The company my wife works for has all ready told their employees that if there is a "public Option" the company will drop their health insurance.
 
the language in waxman/rangel excludes illegals, it is true

but when congressman heller introduced his amendment in rangel's ways and means to ENFORCE the exclusion by employing e-verify, he was voted down in cmte along party lines, july 17

the bill SAYS it won't include illegals, but we've heard that kinda TALK for decades

where rubber meets road, there's no ENFORCEMENT

Newsmax.com - Obama Health Plan to Cover 12 Million Illegals
 
Well, even before that, I'd rather there just be a general recognition that people who disagree with you politically are not automatically dumb or evil. That would be the first step toward honesty.

OMG there are so dumb people on both sides! Loons who think everyone is gonna be insured for free on one side and the, "they're gonna kill grandma and pay for illegals," fools on the other.

I'm sure within that 1000+ pages there are some real issues that need to be nixed or tweaked. That's what the debate should be about. Or folks should earnestly speak towards why a public option is generally a bad idea. But all the hysterical lying is sad when health care in this country is a freaking mess.
 
OMG there are so dumb people on both sides! Loons who think everyone is gonna be insured for free on one side and the, "they're gonna kill grandma and pay for illegals," fools on the other.

I'm sure within that 1000+ pages there are some real issues that need to be nixed or tweaked. That's what the debate should be about. Or folks should earnestly speak towards why a public option is generally a bad idea. But all the hysterical lying is sad when health care in this country is a freaking mess.
Which then gets us back to...

The REAL problem here is that we're not questioning the basic premises behind "Health Care Reform" -- that the system -is- broken and that -only- Government can fix it.
 
the inclusion of illegals is implicit in obtuse obama's own numbers

when he keeps repeating 46 million uninsured, his own census counts 12 million of THOSE as illegal

bless their hearts, i mean, nothing against our hard working hispanic neighbors and friends

but obamacare intends the inclusion of illegals

which is a killer political blow---to obamacare

in TIMES like THESE
 
Which then gets us back to...

The REAL problem here is that we're not questioning the basic premises behind "Health Care Reform" -- that the system -is- broken and that -only- Government can fix it.

For me personally the system is definitely a freaking mess. For family members and friends the system is a mess. For some it works. But it fails too many for too many arbitrary reasons and has been doing so for far too long.
 
the inclusion of illegals is implicit in obtuse obama's own numbers

when he keeps repeating 46 million uninsured, his own census counts 12 million of THOSE as illegal

bless their hearts, i mean, nothing against our hard working hispanic neighbors and friends

but obamacare intends the inclusion of illegals

which is a killer political blow---to obamacare

in TIMES like THESE

I think I


Will trust factcheck.org over

your

word. One has a

history of being factually

accurate, the other cannot even

manage

to

use paragraphs and sentences to

make their

posts more readable. And

you are not nearly as credible as factcheck.org.
 
For me personally the system is definitely a freaking mess.
Can I ask how/why?

But it fails too many for too many arbitrary reasons and has been doing so for far too long.
Hoiw/why do you say that?
 
For me personally the system is definitely a freaking mess. For family members and friends the system is a mess. For some it works. But it fails too many for too many arbitrary reasons and has been doing so for far too long.

The Government did such a great job running Cash for Clunkers, they'd have no problem paying for all our healthcare...right? :shock::doh
 
Well, even before that, I'd rather there just be a general recognition that people who disagree with you politically are not automatically dumb or evil. That would be the first step toward honesty.

Oh absolutely. It is entirely possible to disagree and talk about the disagreement in such a way as to have a pleasant discussion. I have done that with a number of conservatives on this board. The problem here is the issue is so contentious, and people want to win at all costs, that it makes it hard at times to have the conversation with a few idiots making wild claims and repeating them over and over in the face of proof that they are wrong.
 
The Government did such a great job running Cash for Clunkers, they'd have no problem paying for all our healthcare...right? :shock::doh

If health care reform is as wildly successful as Cash for Clunkers, that would be a good thing. Short term programs almost always look bad, because by the time it takes to get the bugs ironed out, the program is over. With the incredible popularity of the program, and the inevitable bugs, things are running slow for dealers, but the program did exactly what it was supposed to, put more efficient vehicles on the road, and depleted carmakers inventories(which is putting me back to work Monday, just got the call today).
 
Can I ask how/why?


Hoiw/why do you say that?

I've listed the reasons previously

insurance tied to job causing problems switching employers
pre-existing conditions causing severely limited access to plans
limited access/affordability for small employers
private insurance dropping folks with chronic debilitating diagnosis, thus these folks are dumped into the medicare/disability system
 
If health care reform is as wildly successful as Cash for Clunkers, that would be a good thing. Short term programs almost always look bad, because by the time it takes to get the bugs ironed out, the program is over. With the incredible popularity of the program, and the inevitable bugs, things are running slow for dealers, but the program did exactly what it was supposed to, put more efficient vehicles on the road, and depleted carmakers inventories(which is putting me back to work Monday, just got the call today).

...and just plain ran out of money, requiring them to dump more funding in almost immediately. If they can't budget a stimulus right, why in the world do you think they could budget taking care of an entire country's medical needs?

Oh...and convincing Americans to take on debt they likely can't afford to get a few of their own tax dollars back only looks good if you failed high school math. That's not a success in my book.
 
I've listed the reasons previously

insurance tied to job causing problems switching employers
pre-existing conditions causing severely limited access to plans

I mentioned this in another thread. My brother was diagnosed with cancer before the age of 30. He is in full remission right now(thank god, he was at one time given a 5 % chance to live past 90 days), but remission is not the same thing as cured. His cancer could come back at any time. As such, this is a pre-existing condition, which makes his desire to change jobs really difficult.
 
...and just plain ran out of money, requiring them to dump more funding in almost immediately. If they can't budget a stimulus right, why in the world do you think they could budget taking care of an entire country's medical needs?

Oh...and convincing Americans to take on debt they likely can't afford to get a few of their own tax dollars back only looks good if you failed high school math. That's not a success in my book.

The reason the plan ran out of money is because it was wildly popular. Damn that Obama for coming up with a massively popular program!
 
The reason the plan ran out of money is because it was wildly popular. Damn that Obama for coming up with a massively popular program!

Exactly...they had no idea what they were doing. I never said it was unpopular, just that, like government run healthcare, it was a terrible idea.
 
I've listed the reasons previously
insurance tied to job causing problems switching employers
pre-existing conditions causing severely limited access to plans
limited access/affordability for small employers
private insurance dropping folks with chronic debilitating diagnosis, thus these folks are dumped into the medicare/disability system
All of these things are rooted in the idea that the health care is a business, and that businesses exist to make a profit.

And so, I'm not sure how these things indicate a "problem", with the "only" solution found in government.
 
Exactly...they had no idea what they were doing. I never said it was unpopular, just that, like government run healthcare, it was a terrible idea.

Apparently they had some idea what they where doing, they managed to create a very successful and popular program. So successful and popular, it exceeded expectations. Welcome to the real world where that does happen, and is almost always a happy event.
 
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