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Former Gov. Dean calls public option indispensable

ReverendHellh0und

ReverendHellh0und

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Former Gov. Dean calls public option indispensable

Former Gov. Dean calls public option indispensable - Yahoo! News

The former Vermont governor was asked on NBC's "Meet the Press" about President Barack Obama's statement over the weekend that the public option for insurance coverage was "just a sliver" of the overall proposal. Obama's health and human services secretary, Kathleen Sebelius, advanced that line, telling CNN Sunday that a direct government role in a system intended to provide virtually universal coverage was "not the essential element."

Dean argued that a public option is fair and said there must be such a choice in any genuine shake up of the existing system.

"You can't really do health reform without it," he said. Dean maintained that the health insurance industry has "put enormous pressure on patients and doctors" in recent years.
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This fight is not between republicans and democrats. It's between left wing democrats and center-left democrats. The Republicans could not stop this bill if they wanted to.

This fight, and if it gets done or does not get done, will be on the backs of the democrats.

Its a lose lose situation here for them. on one hand, if it passes, watered down, the blame will be on some democrats, if it passes with the public option, you can be sure, that many of these center-left democrats will lose thier seats.

If the whole thing fails as the majority of Americans now wish, it will be seen as a failure of the Obama administration.


They are in a tight spot.
 
The one key statistic the liberals ignore, to their detriment:

86% of Americans like the health care and health insurance they have.

The moment the conversation turned seriously towards disturbing that, people got righteously upset.

The only ones who did not see that coming were the liberals.
 
This is true CL, but this is beyond that. We have been led to believe (not you and I) that this is a fight between republicans and democrats... in fact the fight is and always has been between democrats...


So if we devide this struggle into 3 factions, the Obama admin has a lot a trouble ahead of it. :lol:
 
I just saw an interview with a democratic senator, and he said the public option doesn't now have, nor will it ever have enough votes in the senate to pass.

It's DOA, so why is the president and the far left democrats still pushing this?

.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
This is true CL, but this is beyond that. We have been led to believe (not you and I) that this is a fight between republicans and democrats... in fact the fight is and always has been between democrats...


So if we devide this struggle into 3 factions, the Obama admin has a lot a trouble ahead of it. :lol:
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There's at least three factions:

There's the "party loyalists" who will do anything to deliver a nominal "win". They could care less about the content of the bill, just that it will get the votes. Mostly these seem to be ex-Clintonistas.

There's the Progressive cadre, who believe that only single-payer, government run health care can do any good at all, and everything else is just plain offensive.

There's the Blue Dogs, who want government to do good things, but not at the expense of an unbalanced budget. Their appetite for government is constrained by the purse.

Their political problem is that the White House has failed to make common cause with any of these groups. For all of Rahmbo's working Capitol Hill, the Administration still has no plan prototype on which Congress can hang its hat. Without that anchor--an aspect of the legislative process that the Executive Branch does very well--the Congressional committees are doing what committees do: pastiche ideas together in various and sundry compromise schemes that are predicated more on Congressmen appeasing their own constituencies rather than achieving specific legislative end.

This late in the political process is way too late to sit down to make peace with any of these factions. It is the ultimate irony: by failing to use his political capital early on health care, Dear Leader may not be able to use it at all.
 
Grim17 said:
I just saw an interview with a democratic senator, and he said the public option doesn't now have, nor will it ever have enough votes in the senate to pass.

It's DOA, so why is the president and the far left democrats still pushing this?

.
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They have no choice. Once they throw the towel in, they're legislatively over and done with. Not only will health care not be reformed along their lines, but the entire liberal legislative agenda is a dead duck. By the time the dust settles from the resulting internecine war that will erupt, the Republicans will likely have a firm if not controlling hand in one or both Houses of Congress.

The irony of power: having it requires you to be able to use it.
 
i think you forgot one "faction"......the non party loyalist dems who believe a public option is important, along with private choice and genuine reform. many moderates believe that as well. most polls i've seen have very carefully worded questions, and many people who are against a public option have been frightened into believing that would be their ONLY option.

as with clinton, the same parties have done an excellent job of scaring the crap out of the public, and those who know that should ashamed. i still have yet to see rational debate on this subject.
 
liblady said:
i think you forgot one "faction"......the non party loyalist dems who believe a public option is important, along with private choice and genuine reform. many moderates believe that as well. most polls i've seen have very carefully worded questions, and many people who are against a public option have been frightened into believing that would be their ONLY option.

as with clinton, the same parties have done an excellent job of scaring the crap out of the public, and those who know that should ashamed. i still have yet to see rational debate on this subject.
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You can't keep blaming others for your parties failures. People were always wary of a public option, we all have been to the dmv after all...


You don't needs the right, you have filibuster proof majority, you are fighting with yourselves. Not the right.
 
liblady said:
i think you forgot one "faction"......the non party loyalist dems who believe a public option is important, along with private choice and genuine reform. many moderates believe that as well. most polls i've seen have very carefully worded questions, and many people who are against a public option have been frightened into believing that would be their ONLY option.

as with clinton, the same parties have done an excellent job of scaring the crap out of the public, and those who know that should ashamed. i still have yet to see rational debate on this subject.
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Except the "public option" is too expensive, that's why it hasn't the votes.

We all ready have private choice, and most Americans are HAPPY with their choices.


And real reform would focus on the areas that are causing problems...

Take Texas for example, we passed Tort Reform, and now have a backlog of doctors trying to move to the state and get certified. That was reform that helped everyone (except lawyers)... and has been a good move.
 
MrVicchio said:
Except the "public option" is too expensive, that's why it hasn't the votes.
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That and the fact that all one has to do is look at other examples of a "public option"--that's a scare tactic all on its own.

I am still amazed that Dear Leader made reference to the USPS--now there's an encouraging model for both health insurance and health care. :shock:
 
liblady said:
i think you forgot one "faction"......the non party loyalist dems who believe a public option is important, along with private choice and genuine reform. many moderates believe that as well. most polls i've seen have very carefully worded questions, and many people who are against a public option have been frightened into believing that would be their ONLY option.
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Hence I said "at least". The significance of these factions within the majority party is that each of these factions is waging a nasty conflict with at least one other faction. The Progressives and the Blue Dogs in particular are going at it--with the Progressives mounting attack ads in Blue Dog states, no less!

As the Good Reverend pointed out, the real conflict is within the majority party. The Republicans are not the logjam in this; they never were.

At some point, Queen Nancy and Hapless Harry Reid are going to have to explain why they've managed to get just 47 bills all the way through the system into public law, while in the last Congress at this same juncture they had moved over 200 bills into public law. Majority party in both houses and control of the White House, and they are passing less legislation than before--now how does that happen?
 
liblady said:
i think you forgot one "faction"......the non party loyalist dems who believe a public option is important, along with private choice and genuine reform. many moderates believe that as well. most polls i've seen have very carefully worded questions, and many people who are against a public option have been frightened into believing that would be their ONLY option.

as with clinton, the same parties have done an excellent job of scaring the crap out of the public, and those who know that should ashamed. i still have yet to see rational debate on this subject.
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What you and your party fail to acknowledge is that there Democrats at these town halls protesting against this healthcare bill, too. Your typically myopic view is that these are just a bunch of Bush-loving hillbillies. Not true at all.

Your party has the seats to pass this with ease. So why don't they?
 
liblady said:
...the same parties have done an excellent job of scaring the crap out of the public, and those who know that should ashamed.
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There have never been enough votes in the senate to pass a public option bill since this was first proposed, so you can't blame it on scare tactics. I think this is more of a "common sense" rejection.

.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
This fight is not between republicans and democrats. It's between left wing democrats and center-left democrats. The Republicans could not stop this bill if they wanted to.

This fight, and if it gets done or does not get done, will be on the backs of the democrats.

Its a lose lose situation here for them. on one hand, if it passes, watered down, the blame will be on some democrats, if it passes with the public option, you can be sure, that many of these center-left democrats will lose thier seats.

If the whole thing fails as the majority of Americans now wish, it will be seen as a failure of the Obama administration.


They are in a tight spot.
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Oh good god YES! One more INARGUEABLE reason to kill the public option...To piss off Howard Dean!
 
Someone enlighten me here. What is the benefit of NOT having a public option?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
This is true CL, but this is beyond that. We have been led to believe (not you and I) that this is a fight between republicans and democrats... in fact the fight is and always has been between democrats...


So if we devide this struggle into 3 factions, the Obama admin has a lot a trouble ahead of it. :lol:
Click to expand...

Who has led you to believe that? I think its been very clear for a long time that this fight is a fight between Democrats who actually want to accomplish something and spineless democrats that are too big of a wimp to actually do something.
You are absolutely right Rev, the Democrats have an opportunity to pass meaningful reform and yet they are teetering on the edge of wimping out yet again.

This is where I have to hand it to the GOP, like their politics or not, they actually are able to get things done because they don't have the same number of wimps in their party. The Democrats should take a lesson from them and actually not be afraid to use the political capital that they were elected with.

This is a good example why the Democratic party needs more true liberals in the party rather than these pathetic wannabes.
 
disneydude said:
Who has led you to believe that? I think its been very clear for a long time that this fight is a fight between Democrats who actually want to accomplish something and spineless democrats that are too big of a wimp to actually do something.
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Hold on, may've misread. so you're saying all the democrats really do want it, just that there are essentially ones that are being ******s? That's why you think its not happening? You don't think its potentially because they simply disagree with the others in their parties means of "reform"?
 
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Zyphlin said:
Hold on, may've misread. so you're saying all the democrats really do want it, just that there are essentially ones that are being ******s? That's why you think its not happening? You don't think its potentially because they simply disagree with the others in their parties means of "reform"?
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That pretty much sums it up. There are a handful of spineless Democrats that are too afraid to take a stand for something that is even slightly controversial.
 
disneydude said:
That pretty much sums it up. There are a handful of spineless Democrats that are too afraid to take a stand for something that is even slightly controversial.
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:lol: weren't you all gloaty about yor dems a couple weeks ago.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
:lol: weren't you all gloaty about yor dems a couple weeks ago.
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What are you talking about. I haven't been a big fan of the Democrats for a few years now. I take what I can get....and the Dems are the best right now that is out there. (You've been around here long enough to know that)

I'm also realistic. The reality of the Democratic party (or any other party for that matter) promoting the type of agenda that I would like to see is highly unlikely.

I would like the Dems, however, to take a page from the GOP and actually pass some legislation without worrying about appealing to the other side or the right-leaning moderates.

The Democrats need to learn to take a principled stand, not just try to appeal to the middle. I would rather the Democrats take a principled stand and fail than to compromise and give us a watered down version.
That's what happened with Clinton and "gays in the military" and what we ended up with was "DADT"....and we all know how great that turned out.
 
talloulou said:
Wouldn't you buy into the public option?
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If I was forced to pay higher corporate taxes i'd axe my very generous health plan for my employees and tell em to get the "free" obamacare.


but no, I have a very very comprehensive plan. I have no desire to downgrade. ;)
 
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