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NHS branded 'evil' and 'Orwellian' by high-level US politicians

Harry Guerrilla said:
Prove it.

Or is this another one of your EU is always better than the U.S.?
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Prove that the UK's NHS is not the "gold standard" in the EU?

The UK's life expectancy is lower than Andorra, France, Switzerland, Sweden, Italy, Spain, Monaco, Liechtenstein, Norway, Greece, Austria, Malta, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Germany and Belgium.

The list is about the same if we look at infant mortality just with a few different countries in there.

So the NHS is not a "gold standard" by any means as I understand "gold standard". It is good and covers everyone and provides quality healthcare and improves the health of the whole population, just like all other UHC systems in Europe.. just some of them do it better.
 
Laila said:
I have no such premise.
I think UHC is good in my country.
What the United States decide to do is none of my business as it is not my country nor taxmoney.
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I appreciate that and I don't condemn people in Europe for their respective health care options, I personally get tired of people saying that the U.S. has an arcane system of health without really knowing what they are talking about.
If people in Europe are happy with what they have that's great, just don't get mad if I use your system to show what I don't want for ours.

Not only that but we are presented here with a false dilemma of either status quo or UHC when there are other options no one is putting on the table.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I think your a pretty good poster but when people start pulling the Pete garbage of EU vs. U.S. it's really annoying.

Using world examples of health care is just fine and if the guy from the U.K. wants to "warn" people about the pitfalls of a UHC system he has the right to do so.

We over here are constantly depicted by foreign media as having some arcane health system when in reality when have the best in the world.
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I don't think he should do that.
What he did was go to FOX news and essentially put the Conservative party in a difficult positon leading them to go on the defensive?
He isn't helping his party when he bashes the NHS for a little bit of thumbs up from US.

I have a feeling someone may be de selected in a few years time ... :mrgreen:
And rightly so, why does he have to represent SE London of all places

But i agree US v. EU thing is stupid.
 
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Harry Guerrilla said:
Prove it.

Or is this another one of your EU is always better than the U.S.?
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In this case, Pete is absolutely right. Nearly every European country has a much better health care system than we have in the United States.

I would consider Switzerland and the UK to be among the worst in Europe...but they're both better than the American health care system. Hell, even the Canadian health care system is better than ours, and their system is a mess.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Not only that but we are presented here with a false dilemma of either status quo or UHC when there are other options no one is putting on the table.
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I think that is rubbish and i have stated as much in numerous posts in regards to the US System.

I believe the majority of Americans wish for a reform of the current system but do not want a European-like healthcare and rightly so.
It is not black and white issue, no one system is right and the other wrong.
 
PeteEU said:
Prove that the UK's NHS is not the "gold standard" in the EU?

The UK's life expectancy is lower than Andorra, France, Switzerland, Sweden, Italy, Spain, Monaco, Liechtenstein, Norway, Greece, Austria, Malta, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Germany and Belgium.

The list is about the same if we look at infant mortality just with a few different countries in there.

So the NHS is not a "gold standard" by any means as I understand "gold standard". It is good and covers everyone and provides quality healthcare and improves the health of the whole population, just like all other UHC systems in Europe.. just some of them do it better.
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I never said the U.K.'s NHS system is the gold standard of Europe. :confused:

I given you clear reasons why all those numbers are different you just reject the idea and hide behind "racism."
 
Kandahar said:
I would consider Switzerland and the UK to be among the worst in Europe...but they're both better than the American health care system. Hell, even the Canadian health care system is better than ours, and their system is a mess.
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:shock:
Switzerland UHC rocks. Where have you been?
 
Laila said:
I think that is rubbish and i have stated as much in numerous posts in regards to the US System.

I believe the majority of Americans wish for a reform of the current system but do not want a European-like healthcare and rightly so.
It is not black and white issue, no one system is right and the other wrong.
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I agree, hell I LOVE Europe and all of it's respective countries.

I wanted to possibly immigrate there, as your cultures are extremely interesting a lot different than ours.
I hate the who is better argument.
 
Kandahar said:
I would consider Switzerland and the UK to be among the worst in Europe...but they're both better than the American health care system. Hell, even the Canadian health care system is better than ours, and their system is a mess.
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Why do you think the Swiss system is one of the worst? Because it's more expensive than most? We also have more freedom with it than most. That comes at a price.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I never said the U.K.'s NHS system is the gold standard of Europe. :confused:

I given you clear reasons why all those numbers are different you just reject the idea and hide behind "racism."
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You quoted my answer to the gold standard comment, so hence you were commenting on the gold standard comment. Hence my answer. Not my fault you are not clear on what you want and only out to derail and attack people.
 
PeteEU said:
You quoted my answer to the gold standard comment, so hence you were commenting on the gold standard comment. Hence my answer. Not my fault you are not clear on what you want and only out to derail and attack people.
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You said the U.K.'s health system is better than the U.S. and I said prove it.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I agree, hell I LOVE Europe and all of it's respective countries.

I hate the who is better argument.
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And we love US right back (no matter how judgemental some of us are)

There are alot of things i'd love to steal from US as you know and some things in which i believe it is superior to Europe in imo.
But both bring something new to the world :2wave:
 
Laila said:
:shock:
Switzerland UHC rocks. Where have you been?
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Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong country. Isn't Switzerland the one with the public/private hybrid system which costs far more per capita than anywhere else in Europe (but still less than half the cost per capita as the US)?
 
Arcana XV said:
Why do you think the Swiss system is one of the worst? Because it's more expensive than most? We also have more freedom with it than most. That comes at a price.
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Fair enough. As I've never been to Switzerland, I'll take your word for it. I'm just relying on what I've read.
 
Laila said:
Cameron on NHS The fact that in this country you can go to a hospital, you can go to a family doctor, and they do not ask you how much money is in your bank account is one of our great national institutions.”
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I have never, ever, not once been asked by any doctor or hospital how much money is in my bank account. Ever.
 
Laila said:
And we love US right back (no matter how judgemental some of us are)

There are alot of things i'd love to steal from US as you know and some things in which i believe it is superior to Europe in imo.
But both bring something new to the world :2wave:
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Damn it, we agree to much which doesn't facilitate fierce debate. :2razz:

I like the French which is a bit odd for the states.
 
Kandahar said:
Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong country. Isn't Switzerland the one with the public/private hybrid system which costs far more per capita than anywhere else in Europe (but still less than half the cost per capita as the US)?
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no, Switzerland is the only country in Europe that is 100% private and universal, but also by far the most expensive.. only second to the US world wide.
 
PeteEU said:
no, Switzerland is the only country in Europe that is 100% private and universal, but also by far the most expensive.. only second to the US world wide.
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Except we can afford it. Swiss salaries are also among the highest in Europe too. Very few people get government help to pay for their health insurance, even though the number has risen these past few years. The cost also varies widely depending on what part of the country you're in. For some reason Swiss Germans manage to keep their costs way down, whereas the French and Italian parts do a lousy job of it.
 
PeteEU said:
Actually the UK NHS is seen as one of the "worst" of the systems in Europe, but hey it is still far better than the US.
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I failed to correctly state the intent of my gold standard comment, that was my fault. U.K. healthcare does have his problems, I should have been more clear and stated further that in general economic status the U.K. is the gold standard. :doh
 
Arcana XV said:
Except we can afford it. Swiss salaries are also among the highest in Europe too. Very few people get government help to pay for their health insurance, even though the number has risen these past few years. The cost also varies widely depending on what part of the country you're in. For some reason Swiss Germans manage to keep their costs way down, whereas the French and Italian parts do a lousy job of it.
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I got no problems with the Swiss system and yea you can afford it. As long as it is universal health care and covers everyone then it is all good in my book. Although personally if I was Swiss then I would be asking lots of questions on why your system is so expensive and try to cut down that cost :) but that is me :)
 
LaMidRighter said:
I failed to correctly state the intent of my gold standard comment, that was my fault. U.K. healthcare does have his problems, I should have been more clear and stated further that in general economic status the U.K. is the gold standard. :doh
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You mean it is a miracle Labour has not ****ed up NHS as much as they have the country

:2wave:
 
Laila said:
You mean it is a miracle Labour has not ****ed up NHS as much as they have the country

:2wave:
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Yep. That would be it in a nutshell.:2wave:
 
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