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Specter: Protests not 'representative of America'

or the patient and the doctor discuss it
Yes, they discuss it, but the decision should be solely up to the person it affects, or their family.
 
and owned slaves - is that american too?

Apples and oranges. This country was founded on vehement and robust political dissent and civil disobedience. That's why the protections of such actions are encoded into our constitution and bill of rights.
 
too many americans are misinformed, because their "facts" come from RW talking points. i would love to see one of those backed against the wall and forced to voice their objections concretely. won't happen, of course.

The misinformation is coming from this administration. The efforts of OTHERS to voice their opinion are an attempt to get at the TRUTH.

Fact; Governments will limit care more so than private insurance companies.

Fact; Medicare will be rolled into the Government plan and the costs for adding the presumed 45 million uninsured to Government rolls will cost far in excess of the fabricated numbers being used by the Obama administration.

Fact; Democrats want to ADD illegal immigrants to the coverage.

Fact; This administration is lying to the American people when it claims that they do not want to take away private health insurance; the Government option will undermine and undercut private insurance companies and the requirements will force them out of business because they cannot compete with the Governments ability to print money and tax and spend.

Fact; Government programs lead to shortages of drugs and specialists and lead to long waiting times; some of which end up in the death of the patient waiting for critical operations.

What is amazing to me is to see so many willing lemmings that under the previous administration trusted NO one in Government now slavishly wallowing in their talking points.

Becoming a WARD of the state should strike fear into anyone with a modicum of intelligence.
 
Fact; Governments will limit care more so than private insurance companies.

The simpe fact is that it may need to be limited in order for us to avoid bankrupting the entire healthcare system.

Fact; Democrats want to ADD illegal immigrants to the coverage.

I have to agree with you on this one, and it's b.s.
 
You do understand how insurance works, right? You pay your monthly amount, and other people put into the pot, and it's calculated on the costs and risks of the whole?
Yes, that is how it works, roughly, but your premiums, and other premiums are not the sole funding mechanism of the insurance pool, as well, you don't get an "equal" share of the pool, it exists for when you need it.

So, no, Granny isn't likely paying for that expensive surgery. WE ALL ARE. And yeah, I feel like I should have a say in the matter. Particularly when the system is on the verge of bankruptcy, and it may deprive my child, who has a good 90 years ahead of him, of a necessary procedure.
First, "Granny" is most likely in the Medicare system, at least parts A & B, and she probably has supplemental, which would mean she isn't in the same pool that your family is in. Secondly, if "Granny" was in the same pool, for the most part, because of her advanced age she is probably paying a higher premium than your entire family and possibly a higher deductible. Third, you all have access to the risk pool, which means that the operation for "Granny" does not deprive your family of any necessary procedures, a doctor padding a bill with an unnecessary test, or who is not concerned enough to justify a test that looked like he was padding a bill would though. So no, it isn't your call exactly, sorry if I sound harsh.

We can't do everything for everyone. That's why we're in the mess we are right now.
Oh it goes beyond that, the government has been screwing the health industry for over a century incrimentally in this country, we have a combination of more grandiose overregulation and the accumulative effect of the more minor ones creating this horrid mess we're in today.
 
Most certainly Catz but you are forgetting what the founding fathers did... They wrote that constitution and bill of rights. They came together and agreed on founding principles of a nation.

Now certain people are in fact so stubborn they wont even debate on a single piece of legislation, let alone compromise on it. Think about that... Could we freaking write a constitution today??? Not when we can't even have a civil debate.
 
Oh it goes beyond that, the government has been screwing the health industry for over a century incrimentally in this country, we have a combination of more grandiose overregulation and the accumulative effect of the more minor ones creating this horrid mess we're in today.

I think that one of the wisest things I've ever read is that, while we may have the power to prolongue a semblance of life for a nearly unlimited time period, sometimes wisdom comes in knowing when life should not be prolongued. It appears that most Americans, especially in regard to end of life care, have no ability to say no to themselves.

I totally agree with the paragraph above.
 
Hey, I grew up in Brooklyn. I know all about rudeness. I'm talking about being so loud and disruptive that the whole meeting is derailed.

That's not fair to all members of the community who attend these meetings and citizens who watch them on television.

I can't stand seeing people lose it to rudeness and talk over others. Save that stuff for the tavern.

I agree with the rudeness, at times it is shocking. However, I am also stunned at the arrogance by the politicians and believe that their smug attitudes towards people voicing their concerns incite some of the rudeness and anger.

When you see a person in Government talking down to you and being smug and arrogant, the helplessness to do anything about it can bring out such anger.

Let's look at BOTH sides of this coin.
 
Most certainly Catz but you are forgetting what the founding fathers did... They wrote that constitution and bill of rights. They came together and agreed on founding principles of a nation.

It took them 8 years. These town hall meetings haven't even gone on for 8 months.

Forgive me for failing to fling my hands in the air and cry.
 
WHAT? 10,000 years agon noone lived past 25. WTF. We should all kill ourselves according to Catz. We aren't supposed to go on.
 
I agree with the rudeness, at times it is shocking. However, I am also stunned at the arrogance by the politicians and believe that their smug attitudes towards people voicing their concerns incite some of the rudeness and anger.

When you see a person in Government talking down to you and being smug and arrogant, the helplessness to do anything about it can bring out such anger.

Let's look at BOTH sides of this coin.

Yeah, it's so smug and arrogant to put yourself into a potentially hostile position so you can answer questions for people...
 
I agree with the rudeness, at times it is shocking. However, I am also stunned at the arrogance by the politicians and believe that their smug attitudes towards people voicing their concerns incite some of the rudeness and anger.

I agree. I've often seen this in community meetings, of course, when I'm in charge of the meeting, it is generally community residents ranting at and about the poh-pohs. This comes about from a feeling of overall helplessness/powerlessness, and people have to be allowed to vent their anger for productive discussion to move forward. If that anger is stifled, it only goes underground and gets worse. When people have felt powerless and afraid for a long time, they get a lot of anger stored up, and you have to allow them to release it, even if it's uncomfortable, in order to move forward.

People are pissed off and scared about the mess we're in, they feel powerless, and they are frightened of what will be done and how it might impact their families. Sorry that some see it as disruption, but if you don't allow people to express these feelings, you aren't going to get very far.

That's exactly why Claire McCaskill said what she did, that it was a rough 2 hours, but it was productive.
 
WHAT? 10,000 years agon noone lived past 25. WTF. We should all kill ourselves according to Catz. We aren't supposed to go on.

Now you are being absurd for the sake of being absurd; is that really what Catz is saying......NO.

:roll:
 
I think that one of the wisest things I've ever read is that, while we may have the power to prolongue a semblance of life for a nearly unlimited time period, sometimes wisdom comes in knowing when life should not be prolongued. It appears that most Americans, especially in regard to end of life care, have no ability to say no to themselves.
I can agree to that, but again, that has to be an intimate family decision all the same, the doctor and some beaurocrat could care less about my family, which is the overall point of my families decisions are our business, just as all families have that commonality.
 
I believe that a lot of this "outrage" is orchestrated. The disruption is deliberate and not because it reflects the genuine dissatisfaction of the people, but because the authors of the disruption would like it to appear that way.

It's much easier to turn a town hall discussion on it's ear than it is to put together a march on Washington. But you have enough town hall meetings go south because some folks decide they are going to yell and scream and act like morons instead of intelligently addressing the issues they have...well that gets better airplay.
 
But she's uglay and smug and such an Obama lemming. :shock:

I think she's very attractive, for her age. And no, she is not a lemming. She just hasn't had a reason to put her foot down, yet. But she is a MISSOURI girl, those girls are FIERCE if you piss them off.
 
Yeah, it's so smug and arrogant to put yourself into a potentially hostile position so you can answer questions for people...

I see you are having difficulty distinguishing the event from the arrogant smug responses of the politicians; however, I am hardly surprised because you apparently see it as your mission in life to carry Obama's water regardless of the facts, realities or truth.
 
On the other hand, it goes without saying that an unscrupulous doctor could have a financial advantage in prologuing life or performing extreme measures. In my opinion, these lines need to be drawn, sooner rather than later, and they need to be drawn by a mixed bag of government, insurance companies, and doctors, with patient advocate representatives.

True. That's why I support guidelines established by all those groups and a decision made by a panel of physicians, not just one with a large mortgage or homicidal tendencies. That would cut out a huge chunk of the ultimately needless cost.
 
I see you are having difficulty distinguishing the event from the arrogant smug responses of the politicians; however, I am hardly surprised because you apparently see it as your mission in life to carry Obama's water regardless of the facts, realities or truth.

You are not a good one to be talking about facts, or god forbid, reality, and certainly not truth. You have not shown one example of what you are talking about, and there are countless examples of town halls with politicians politely answering questions.
 
I can agree to that, but again, that has to be an intimate family decision all the same, the doctor and some beaurocrat could care less about my family, which is the overall point of my families decisions are our business, just as all families have that commonality.

The fact the third parties are not emotionally involved is the GOOD part. Unless, again, you want to pay cash.
 
I believe that a lot of this "outrage" is orchestrated. The disruption is deliberate and not because it reflects the genuine dissatisfaction of the people, but because the authors of the disruption would like it to appear that way.

It's much easier to turn a town hall discussion on it's ear than it is to put together a march on Washington. But you have enough town hall meetings go south because some folks decide they are going to yell and scream and act like morons instead of intelligently addressing the issues they have...well that gets better airplay.

The people and videos I have seen suggest otherwise. Of course these citizens could be damned good actors, but I seriously doubt that.

However, you are right about some of these events being "orchestrated." There was a grand orchestrated event yesterday when Obama had his controlled town hall. :rofl
 
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