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Specter: Protests not 'representative of America'

Right now, they're being made by insurance companies. Do you really think the government would be more heartless? Setting parameters on what kinds of care can be paid for, and what can't, through insurance policies, is going to have to happen, one way or another.

And the doctors aren't going to be the ones to decide, regardless.

If families want extreme measures, they should be prepared to pay for them.


It stinks that doctors likely won't. They seem the best qualified. They know what the patient has. They know what the outcome will likely be. They know the quality of life issues. And they know the cost. Let them work with insurance companies to say, "it's cash". No medicare, medicaid or other insurance if you want us to do brain surgery after granny's 10th stroke. It's going to cost $100,000, her brain is already gone and she'll be dead within months. Cash or charge?
 
Right now, they're being made by insurance companies. Do you really think the government would be more heartless?
This is a dodge.
Do you or do you not REALLY trust the government to make those decisions?
 
Rudeness is not representative of American values.

Clearly you've never been to New Jersey.


Free speech is, which is allowing all to speak and voice their opinons free of intimidatation.

It would be nice if the Obama administration actually encouraged that of the other side.
 
Right now, they're being made by insurance companies.
Not exactly, coverage is stated in writing at the onset of the policy, companies legally must state what they do and don't cover, problems arise when doctors order tests that companies deem unnecessary, that does happen, and unfortunately everyone suffers for that.
Do you really think the government would be more heartless?
abso-****ing-lutley
 
I don't agree that anyone but the family should make that call with one exception, if the person is still mentally stable and has some qualtiy of life.

Fine. I understand that. Except I have to pay for it. Maybe you can pay higher premiums for that. Because it's clearly not working now. Or, of course, pay cash for whatever you want done. That seems reasonable, right? If you want to spend $500,000 to keep granny alive and drooling for 6 more months, go ahead. But keep my wallet out of it.
 
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Of course, since it's based on George Bush's definition of a mandate. ;) According to GWB, 51% is a mandate.
The statement was made in the context of someone (a The Obama supporter) claiming that 53% isnt a majority.

You DO agree that 53% is a majority, yes?
 
Rudeness is not representative of American values. Free speech is, which is allowing all to speak and voice their opinons free of intimidatation.

You need to read up a little bit on our history. Americans used to kill each other over political insults. See: Alexander Hamilton.

Rudeness at public meetings is a well-established American tradition, though we don't do it as well as the Brits, who routinely throw rotten produce.
 
It stinks that doctors likely won't. They seem the best qualified. They know what the patient has. They know what the outcome will likely be. They know the quality of life issues. And they know the cost. Let them work with insurance companies to say, "it's cash". No medicare, medicaid or other insurance if you want us to do brain surgery after granny's 10th stroke. It's going to cost $100,000, her brain is already gone and she'll be dead within months. Cash or charge?

On the other hand, it goes without saying that an unscrupulous doctor could have a financial advantage in prologuing life or performing extreme measures. In my opinion, these lines need to be drawn, sooner rather than later, and they need to be drawn by a mixed bag of government, insurance companies, and doctors, with patient advocate representatives.
 
Clearly you've never been to New Jersey.




It would be nice if the Obama administration actually encouraged that of the other side.

Hey, I grew up in Brooklyn. I know all about rudeness. I'm talking about being so loud and disruptive that the whole meeting is derailed.

That's not fair to all members of the community who attend these meetings and citizens who watch them on television.

I can't stand seeing people lose it to rudeness and talk over others. Save that stuff for the tavern.
 
Fine. I understand that. Except I have to pay for it. Maybe you can pay higher premiums for that. Because it's clearly not working now. Or, of course, pay cash for whatever you want done. That seems reasonable, right? If you want to spend $500,000 to keep granny alive and drooling for 6 more months, go ahead. But keep my wallet out of it.
That's actually quite minor when weighted against most of the other problems, we pay more for our insurance because of mandatory ER treatment(abused frequently, most expensive care), tort law induced over testing, bill padding over testing, sky high malpractice insurance costs, overregulation, and mandatory coverage laws in every state, those are the real problems of the system, especially when you add in end of life care.
 
---Specter: Protests not 'representative of America'---

They are protesting the democratic process. They are going to forums and disrupting a democratic civil debate. WHY NOT DEBATE the issues. Fine, protest the health care plan, but lets talk about why. You don't have to yell, bring guns, draw swastikas on congressmen's signs, or protest a meeting. Town hall meetings are A FORUM FOR DEBATE. Yelling at a civil meeting is in fact unamerican. Is that even arguable?
 
Hey, I grew up in Brooklyn. I know all about rudeness. I'm talking about being so loud and disruptive that the whole meeting is derailed.

That's not fair to all members of the community who attend these meetings and citizens who watch them on television.

I can't stand seeing people lose it to rudeness and talk over others. Save that stuff for the tavern.

You're talking about two separate things. You called this behavior "un-American." And yet, this behavior has existed in American politics for 250+ years.

Now, you've shifted to "it's not fair." Well, boo-de-fricking hoo. That's in the eye of the beholder and is an entirely subjective concept.
 
That's actually quite minor when weighted against most of the other problems, we pay more for our insurance because of mandatory ER treatment(abused frequently, most expensive care), tort law induced over testing, bill padding over testing, sky high malpractice insurance costs, overregulation, and mandatory coverage laws in every state, those are the real problems of the system, especially when you add in end of life care.

I don't think that ANYONE is debating that all of these issues need to be resolved.
 
---Specter: Protests not 'representative of America'---

They are protesting the democratic process. They are going to forums and disrupting a democratic civil debate. WHY NOT DEBATE the issues. Fine, protest the health care plan, but lets talk about why. You don't have to yell, bring guns, draw swastikas on congressmen's signs, or protest a meeting. Town hall meetings are A FORUM FOR DEBATE. Yelling at a civil meeting is in fact unamerican. Is that even arguable?

Bingo. Well stated.
 
then lets resolve them...not yell at a meeting where we are discussing in fact resolution....
 
Does anyone here really support heart valve replacement for a woman who is 101 years old?

If that is HER choice and SHE has paid for it; yes.

No one else should be making a life or death decision for anyone other than that person and perhaps their doctor. The notion that some faceless panel will deny services to save a buck is a frightening prospect.

I am not suggesting this is in the "plan," it is a possible outcome when Governments attempt to reign in costs when they begin, and they will, spiraling out of control.
 
Yelling at a civil meeting is in fact unamerican. Is that even arguable?

No, it isn't. It's a distinctly American tradition. Read your history. Hell, yelling is MINOR. You used to get shot in the U.S. for political disagreements. Several of our founding fathers fought duels.
 
No, it isn't. It's a distinctly American tradition. Read your history. Hell, yelling is MINOR. You used to get shot in the U.S. for political disagreements. Several of our founding fathers fought duels.


and owned slaves - is that american too?
 
If that is HER choice and SHE has paid for it; yes.

You do understand how insurance works, right? You pay your monthly amount, and other people put into the pot, and it's calculated on the costs and risks of the whole?

So, no, Granny isn't likely paying for that expensive surgery. WE ALL ARE. And yeah, I feel like I should have a say in the matter. Particularly when the system is on the verge of bankruptcy, and it may deprive my child, who has a good 90 years ahead of him, of a necessary procedure.

We can't do everything for everyone. That's why we're in the mess we are right now.
 
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