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Obama: ‘don’t want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking’


Funny that was the message from the Bush Whitehouse for 6 long years.

We're you so worried then?

What the Republicans refuse to understand is that in our country the WINNING party governs and the second place winners are supposed to monitor and conduct themselves as a function of overseeing the Ruling party
With OVERSIGHT. Not anger..not petty whining, some racial, because they lost. They lost through fault of their own. No matter how much they want too blame everybody else.

OVERSIGHT, Again something the previous adminstration neglected to provide Americans.
 
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that was 2003 the year is now 2009. Obama has little to do with what is in the proposed bill. He simply asked congress to put a bill on his desk by the end of the year. try again.
Doesn't matter. Queen Bee Piglosi and Dingy Harry Reid and the rest of the Leftist ilk all share the same vision!
 
Doesn't matter. Queen Bee Piglosi and Dingy Harry Reid and the rest of the Leftist ilk all share the same vision!

Again no one is talking a government run monopoly. If that is what you fear then your fears are groundless. Single payer is not even close to being a socialized medical system and even that may die before it is all over with.
 
Not even close to half.

Poll: Most Back Public Health Care Option - CBS News

Hardcore conservatives make up about 20%-30% of the population. How is that half?

Every reputable poll I've checked shows at least a small majority support some kind of reform.

He doesn't want half of America to shut up, just the lunatic fringe who would tell any lie to sabotage the clear mandate for a change in the status quo.

the president of the united states shouldn't be telling any americans to shut up, hello

it's suicide politics

those aren't "hard core conservatives" at those town meetings, they're NORMAL americans

SENIORS are FREAKING over their heartfelt FEARS

talk to your parents

and ALL their friends

as for approvals, he has plunged in his personals like a pit in every poll this period

and on particulars, he's getting PULVERIZED

quinnipiac produced a plebiscite THIS WEEK that had SEVENTY TWO PERCENT saying they DON'T BELIEVE HIM when he says he can extend insurance to 50 or so million (1/3 of them ILLEGALS) without significantly increasing the deficit

and by 57 to 37 americans said they didn't want health care if it added to the debt

that's syllogism, sir

by telling americans with whom he happens to disagree that they need to shut up and get out of his way, or be ratted out by their neighbors for saying FISHY stuff, he takes normal political opposition and turns it into RAGE

how would you feel if i spoke to YOU like that

and i'm not even POTUS, i'm just lil ol cliffy

unbelievable

he's killing himself

THIS is why bluedogs won't play

his OWN PARTY's CBO

blue governors like bill richardson, christine gregoire, bill ritter, phil bredeson

the freshman formation led by jared polis

the progressive posse, pronounced by ms woolsey

the most INEPT politician i've ever seen, obtuse obama, and i've seen em all

sorry
 
The fact of the matter is this: Barack Obama does not want dissent. Community organizing is cool only when it furthers liberal causes.

I find his desire for certain people to simple "be quiet" quite disturbing. I have a feeling we are going to see more of his totalitarian tendencies ooze out as the debate over health care reform continues.

C'mon. You guys know that's not what he means. Sure, it's good, old fashioned politicing out on the stomp, but all he's saying is "if all you're going to do is talk a good talk, whine, complain, and do a whole lot of nothin', move out the way and let me do my job." :2razz:
 
Again no one is talking a government run monopoly. If that is what you fear then your fears are groundless. Single payer is not even close to being a socialized medical system and even that may die before it is all over with.

Oh yes you are!!! Single payer IS Socialized medicine!!!
 
Not true.
Not even -close- to being true.
But then, when a liberal has an attack to make, the truth is meaningless.

The mess began when lending practices were relaxed so that people who would otherwise be unable to get credit to buy real estate were able to do so, thusly creating a 'sub-prime' credit market.

And who relaxed those practises? Who deregulated the real estate market?

This relaxation was forced upon lenders by liberals, based on the idea that most unworthy applicants were minorities, and that denying thse people was based on race.
Interesting you should say that considering that according to July 2008 foreclosure statistics most of the foreclosures from the subprime market are in CA, FL, NV and AZ, states that don't have very dense minority population groups.

And so, "the mess" came from an unsound change in lending prractices, one opposed by those with the most at risk -- the lenders. Had things been left alone, we'd not be in this mess.

That's not entirely true. No, most of the major banks and mortgage lenders didn't want to do subprime mortgages at first, but once the saw how some of the smaller lenders were making bank by leveraging in the mortgage industry the jump on that bandwagon fast! Soon, everyone was making money hand over fist. Only problem was nobody stopped long enough to see that the interest rate on those adjustable rate mortgages would come due on or about the same time w/so many being balloon payments - "pay in full" NOW!

The solution? Let everyithing run its course, and then revert to the sound lending practices that would -prevent- a 'sub prime' credit collapse. The idea that only government can fix what's currently wrong is absurd, unsound, unsupportable, and championed only by people that stand to gain personal and/or partisan political power from doing so.
I can't agree with you here. The banks and mortgage lending companies (including Freddie and Fanny...especially Freddie and Fanny) along w/AIG were all leveraged to the hilt! What made things worse is that AIG had a large portion of the mortgage backed securities that went so wrong and were calling them in from the banks!! The very banks that weren't getting paid by the homeowners because they mailed in their keys! If folks weren't paying their mortgages, the banks weren't getting paid. If the banks aren't getting paid, AIG's investment in the real estate securities and investment field can't be repaid. The banks can't pay because their operating and reserve funds are tied up just trying to keep them afloat. It was a mad, vicious cycle. Corporate American couldn't fix itself.

Just like a liberal, to make stuff up just so he could bash the other side.

Now, that's neither fair nor right. Do your homework; do a websearch on CDO's and/or mortgage-backed securities and then you'll understand what really happened. Don't believe the hype! This mess really kicked off around 2003 and by 2008 the bottom fell out!!
 
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Oh yes you are!!! Single payer IS Socialized medicine!!!

strictly speaking single payer is not a socialized medical system the way many European countries have. In a single payer system the government does not own the hospitals nor do they directly employ the doctors, the government simply acts as an insurance company with taxes as the insurance premium. It is a social program but it is not a socialized medical program. I realize this may seem like splitting hairs but it is important to get the terms right.

Single payer is socialized medical coverage but not socialized medicine. The means of production namely the hospitals and doctors are still privately owned.
 
strictly speaking single payer is not a socialized medical system the way many European countries have. In a single payer system the government does not own the hospitals nor do they directly employ the doctors, the government simply acts as an insurance company with taxes as the insurance premium. It is a social program but it is not a socialized medical program. I realize this may seem like splitting hairs but it is important to get the terms right.

Single payer is socialized medical coverage but not socialized medicine. The means of production namely the hospitals and doctors are still privately owned.

That's good to know. I wonder where the pitfalls lay with such a system. Looks like I'm gonna have to do more homework. :)
 
strictly speaking single payer is not a socialized medical system the way many European countries have. In a single payer system the government does not own the hospitals nor do they directly employ the doctors, the government simply acts as an insurance company with taxes as the insurance premium. It is a social program but it is not a socialized medical program. I realize this may seem like splitting hairs but it is important to get the terms right.

Single payer is socialized medical coverage but not socialized medicine. The means of production namely the hospitals and doctors are still privately owned.
Either way, I don't want the government in it at all., This is just the first step towards comlplete government takeover!!!
 
Either way, I don't want the government in it at all., This is just the first step towards comlplete government takeover!!!

Say that when you apply for medicare or god forbid medicaid. Those are our version of a single payer system. Do you go to a VA hospital? THAT is a socialized medical system.
 
Say that when you apply for medicare or god forbid medicaid. Those are our version of a single payer system. Do you go to a VA hospital? THAT is a socialized medical system.
Trust me. The minute I was able to put my family on private insurance through my company, I was relieved!
 
Trust me. The minute I was able to put my family on private insurance through my company, I was relieved!

Anyone would be but not all of us have the luxury of an employer who offers insurance. Have you ever priced an individual policy? There are thousands who work like dogs to support families at places that do not offer insurance and does not pay enough to buy an outrageously expensive individual plan. The public option is for those people. It is not socialized medicine it is an attempt to cover hard working people who have been left behind by rising costs and stagnant wages.
 
Anyone would be but not all of us have the luxury of an employer who offers insurance. Have you ever priced an individual policy? There are thousands who work like dogs to support families at places that do not offer insurance and does not pay enough to buy an outrageously expensive individual plan. The public option is for those people. It is not socialized medicine it is an attempt to cover hard working people who have been left behind by rising costs and stagnant wages.

So what you do is cut taxes enough for companies to invest. the public "option" is but a gateway into government takeover.
 
So what you do is cut taxes enough for companies to invest. the public "option" is but a gateway into government takeover.
This conversation is increasingly off topic. I have been over this with many other people who are sure that the government trying to enslave us with cheap health care but the bottom line is that like the others you just want an argument not enlightenment. So I am going to bed and you can find some other person better informed than you to go around in circles with. But before I go think about cancer, think about a heart attack, Think about you or your family being catastrophically ill and imagine it without coverage. Thousands are in that boat as I speak. Who's going to help them? Health insurance companies?
 
Ok....and who "created" the mess?

The federal reserve

Anti-Republican Congressmen?

you mean a democratic congressmen?
Republican Congressmen?

Only in as much as there are a number of congressment of both stripes that are working for the best interest of the federal reserve (through its proxy lobby groups and other corporate interests)

Insurance companies?

If you're talking about companies whose business amounts to 'insuring' speculative investments... then yes.

Doctors?
Hospitals?

NO


Do you mean the 'banker bailour'? If not, then I couldn't tell you...

If so, the problem was the state of the economy, the reaction was panic on wall street, loss of jobs, loss of confidence, and then threats of martial law... the SOLUTION was to give the same people that created the crisis the most benefit at the cost of the general public.

Pharmaceutical companies?

These represent their own problems that are beyond the scope of this thread.

Who exactly is responsible for the "mess"? What exactly is the "mess"?

This 'mess' has been in the making for a LONG time... though it DIRECTLY relates with the actions of the federal reserves policies of attempting to control the economy. Whether deliberately or incompetently they are the cause.

The 'mess' we're in at this point is that we have our public government running private corporations now, which IS fascism in no uncertain terms. All that's really left is a massive clampdown on police and military against the people, the 'camps', secret police, and profiling people..... wait a second, those are already there now too... I guess it'll only become obvious if and when people start dying en masse that will remove all doubt.
 
Loose lips sinks ships.
 
Not even close to half.

Poll: Most Back Public Health Care Option - CBS News

Hardcore conservatives make up about 20%-30% of the population. How is that half?

Every reputable poll I've checked shows at least a small majority support some kind of reform.

He doesn't want half of America to shut up, just the lunatic fringe who would tell any lie to sabotage the clear mandate for a change in the status quo.

Are you kidding? This poll is two months old.
 
What happens when a republican crosses the aisle these days? He is called a traitor and the party promises retaliation in the next election.

Sounds like Joe Lieberman.

Republicans killed bipartisanship and have only themselves to blame if they feel left out. If they want a seat at the table they need to tone down the rhetoric and act like reasonable people. As long as they talk like it's the end of the world if any democratic agenda passes they will and should be left out in the cold. Democrats have the majority and they can keep it if they all stop playing nice with the ones who are working only to insure their failure.

But Obama promised EVERYBODY would have a seat at the table to decide on health care reform.

To achieve health care reform, "I'm going to have all the negotiations around a big table. We'll have doctors and nurses and hospital administrators. Insurance companies, drug companies -- they'll get a seat at the table, they just won't be able to buy every chair. But what we will do is, we'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies. And so, that approach, I think is what is going to allow people to stay involved in this process."
PolitiFact | Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN - Obama promise No. 517:

Oops, another lie.
 
Wait . . .

WHO was one of the top two recipients of FannieMae contributions, and WHO voted against regulating them further?

Who was that, again? Oh, yeah . . . it's the guy who's yapping about how the people responsible for the mess shouldn't do a lot of talking.

Aside from it being a classic piece of banana republic demagoguery, as is his typical style . . .
 
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