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Up to 5 dead in Pittsburgh-area shooting

danarhea

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BRIDGEVILLE, Pa. – A gunman burst into an exercise class at a health club in suburban Pittsburgh on Tuesday night and started spraying bullets. A television station reported at least four people were dead, including the shooter, and a hospital reported another death later.
Area hospitals were treating at least six other victims, including two in fair condition.
There is an old adage that says "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". I am wondering if the outcome would be different had the patrons at the health club carried guns. I do not mean to politicize this tragedy, but to me, this is one of the reasons that the second amendment should not be watered down. I can tell you that, if the health club had been here in Houston, there is a good chance that the death toll would not have been so high, and that the shooter would have become a statistic much earlier. Here, on any given day, you will find a number of guns inside the locker rooms, and all legal, waiting to deal out death to people who would make some kind of a statement that they are fed up with their own crappy lives by taking the lives of others.


Article is here.
 
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It is a proven fact "some people" either choose to ignore or pie about the truth of it but violent crimes go down when concealed carry laws go into effect. It is also a fact that more crimes are stopped with personal firearms than are committed with them.
The only thing is when do you keep a gun while wearing work clothing? Minor problem, but not insurmountable.
 
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Uh, what? The guy turned off the lights and started spraying. The only way guns would've helped in this situation is if A) you didn't get shot trying to turn on the lights or B) you were willing to shoot into a room with civilians. Either way, you either kill civilians or waste time trying to turn on lights. This guy wasn't an outlaw before he bought the guns so if there were stronger gun laws, maybe he would not have been able to easily obtain guns? In any case, it's speculation but your statement about guns is dead wrong.

EDIT: Also, you should read his blog. It's really interesting.
 
Sounds like we need to pass a law against...something. Oh, wait, murder is already illegal.
 
It is a proven fact "some people" either choose to ignore or pie about the truth of it but violent crimes go down when concealed carry laws go into effect. It is also a fact that more crimes are stopped with personal firearms than are committed with them.
The only thing is when do you keep a gun while wearing work clothing? Minor problem, but not insurmountable.

Someone could develop a special workout holster after all we do have jock sraps and sport bras so why not sport holsters.
 
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Uh, what? The guy turned off the lights and started spraying. The only way guns would've helped in this situation is if A) you didn't get shot trying to turn on the lights or B) you were willing to shoot into a room with civilians. Either way, you either kill civilians or waste time trying to turn on lights. This guy wasn't an outlaw before he bought the guns so if there were stronger gun laws, maybe he would not have been able to easily obtain guns? In any case, it's speculation but your statement about guns is dead wrong.

EDIT: Also, you should read his blog. It's really interesting.

I have to give you the points that in this case where the scmuck turned out the light it would have been extremely dificult to waste the f-fer.

I heard that he wrote in a blog that we will still go to heaven because "Christ suffered and died to wipe out all sins" so whackjob believes that he is headed for the high rent destrict after he died.

Do guns and religion mix well ?
 
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...blather and stuff...

Do guns and religion mix well?

It depends on the person who has the guns and how they interpret the religion in question.
 
Someone could develop a special workout holster after all we do have jock sraps and sport bras so why not sport holsters.

Gyms could offer (if some don't already) self-defense classes which include ways of disarming someone holding a gun and protecting oneself from same.
 
Gyms could offer (if some don't already) self-defense classes which include ways of disarming someone holding a gun and protecting oneself from same.

That may have helped if the one who had that training was close enough to the perp and wasn' wasted by the perp right away.

Do wwe need armed snipers in all public building waiting and ready to waste perps ? But what if the snipers we hire are actually peprs in waiting ?
 
Uh, what? The guy turned off the lights and started spraying. The only way guns would've helped in this situation is if A) you didn't get shot trying to turn on the lights or B) you were willing to shoot into a room with civilians. Either way, you either kill civilians or waste time trying to turn on lights. This guy wasn't an outlaw before he bought the guns so if there were stronger gun laws, maybe he would not have been able to easily obtain guns? In any case, it's speculation but your statement about guns is dead wrong.

EDIT: Also, you should read his blog. It's really interesting.

They could have fired at his muzzle flash. Wouldn't have been hard to hit him.
 
That may have helped if the one who had that training was close enough to the perp and wasn't wasted by the perp right away.

Do we need armed snipers in all public building waiting and ready to waste perps? But what if the snipers we hire are actually perps in waiting ?

I was thinking in more general terms. Such a class, if it doesn't already exist in some gyms, could increase their income.

But no, I don't see the need for snipers...

As far as I am aware, this was at least a somewhat close-range situation. A person or persons trained with a handgun could easily have taken this nutcase down before he harmed so many persons. Although likely the surprise of his attack would have caused all but a few to panic and not respond in time to prevent much of what happened.

As to snipers being potential perps... It obviously would depend on the sniper in question. Although I agree that sniping takes a special mindset.
 
They could have fired at his muzzle flash. Wouldn't have been hard to hit him.

Bit dangerous, if he had someone he was using as a human shield? Or moved after firing? Or something else I didn't think of?

But I agree, the damage could have been reduced if someone had attempted to subdue him at some point in this incident.
 
Bit dangerous, if he had someone he was using as a human shield? Or moved after firing? Or something else I didn't think of?

But I agree, the damage could have been reduced if someone had attempted to subdue him at some point in this incident.

Dangerous? Compared to what?

I'm just not into laying down dieing. Call me crazy.
 
Dangerous? Compared to what?

I'm just not into laying down dieing. Call me crazy.

I wasn't comparing it to anything.

Of course it might be less dangerous than doing nothing. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be dangerous.
 
I wasn't comparing it to anything.

Of course it might be less dangerous than doing nothing. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be dangerous.

A couple rounds fired into the ceiling, showing the shooter that there was someone to shoot back might have been plenty to force him into a route.

The whole reason he picked the target he did, was because he was 99.999% sure that no one there had a gun. You don't see these nut jobs pull this crap in places where someone might have a gun and can shoot back; church, grade school, health club, college campus...I'm noticing a pattern.
 
A couple rounds fired into the ceiling, showing the shooter that there was someone to shoot back might have been plenty to force him into a route.

The whole reason he picked the target he did, was because he was 99.999% sure that no one there had a gun. You don't see these nut jobs pull this crap in places where someone might have a gun and can shoot back; church, grade school, health club, college campus...I'm noticing a pattern.

A good point.

IMO, more concealed carry permits...or open carry permits, if such exist, would likely reduce such incidents.
 
A good point.

IMO, more concealed carry permits...or open carry permits, if such exist, would likely reduce such incidents.

I agree. I think a more avid use of the death penalty would work, too.
 
I can tell you that, if the health club had been here in Houston, there is a good chance that the death toll would not have been so high, and that the shooter would have become a statistic much earlier.

And how many of those guns are available to the people using the nautilus equipment, climbing the stairmasters, and swimming?

I'm an ardent supporter of the Second Amendment in it's most generous possible interpretation, don't get me wrong, but you have to focus on the key issue here. Thirty million single women ignored this guy. It must be their fault. His problem was lack of a wife. Clearly if the Messiah had re-instituted arranged marriages, this guy would have been satisfied and lives would have been saved.
 
Perhaps all places of business need super-powerful high-gauss electro-magnets in the ceilig that will rip the gun out of the man's hand if he starts something.

Or maybe a hidden sequence of trap doors in the floor.

What about foaming the guy with quick-dry cement?

How about realizing that not everything can be prevented and sometimes nothing can be done to avert tragedy? People ARE going to put themselves in places where being armed isn't appropriate. Gyms are one of those places. Beach volleyball is another.

And, since it's morally wrong to disarm the entire country, there are going to be cases where depressed people will resort to mass murder as an "exit strategy".

A man drove his Cadillac into a daycare center playground once, killing kids.

Do we ban cars?

Do we require that all daycare facilities become hardened protected sites able to fend off angry luxury car drivers?

What?

Not a whole heck of a lot that can be done reasonably.

This incident with yesterday.

The guy needed to get laid.

Legalize prostitution and maybe that could have prevented this.
 
And how many of those guns are available to the people using the nautilus equipment, climbing the stairmasters, and swimming?

I'm an ardent supporter of the Second Amendment in it's most generous possible interpretation, don't get me wrong, but you have to focus on the key issue here. Thirty million single women ignored this guy. It must be their fault. His problem was lack of a wife. Clearly if the Messiah had re-instituted arranged marriages, this guy would have been satisfied and lives would have been saved.

As much as I dislike apdst's opinions, at least they're (for the most part) relevant to this thread. You're really reaching with that attack on Obama. Kinda funny how both you and the killer have a dislike for Obama's administration.
 
There is an old adage that says "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". I am wondering if the outcome would be different had the patrons at the health club carried guns. I do not mean to politicize this tragedy, but to me, this is one of the reasons that the second amendment should not be watered down. I can tell you that, if the health club had been here in Houston, there is a good chance that the death toll would not have been so high, and that the shooter would have become a statistic much earlier. Here, on any given day, you will find a number of guns inside the locker rooms, and all legal, waiting to deal out death to people who would make some kind of a statement that they are fed up with their own crappy lives by taking the lives of others.


Article is here.




Bro I am more pro gun than you. but its hard as hell to do pilates strapped with a .45


:mrgreen:
 
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