• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

E-Mails Show Larger White House Role in Prosecutor Firings

hazlnut

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
11,963
Reaction score
3,543
Location
Naperville, IL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
E-Mails Show Larger White House Role in Prosecutor Firings

By Carrie Johnson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, July 31, 2009

Political adviser Karl Rove and other high-ranking figures in the Bush White House played a greater role than previously understood in the firing of federal prosecutors almost three years ago, according to e-mails obtained by The Washington Post, in a scandal that led to mass Justice Department resignations and an ongoing criminal probe.

The e-mails and new interviews with key participants reflect contacts among Rove, aides in the Bush political affairs office and White House lawyers about the dismissal of three of the nine U.S. attorneys fired in 2006: New Mexico's David C. Iglesias, the focus of ire from GOP lawmakers; Missouri's Todd Graves, who had clashed with one of Rove's former clients; and Arkansas's Bud Cummins, who was pushed out to make way for a Rove protégé.

The documents and interviews provide new information about efforts by political aides in the Bush White House, for example, to push a former colleague as a favored candidate for one of the U.S. attorney posts. They also reflect the intensity of efforts by lawmakers and party officials in New Mexico to unseat the top prosecutor there. Rove described himself as merely passing along complaints by senators and state party officials to White House lawyers.

The e-mails emerged as Rove finished his second day of closed-door-testimony Thursday about the firings to the House Judiciary Committee. For years, Rove and former White House counsel Harriet E. Miers had rejected efforts by lawmakers to obtain their testimony and their correspondence about the issue, citing executive privilege. The House sued, igniting a court fight that was resolved this year after discussions among lawyers for former president George W. Bush and President Obama.

File this under no WMD's or 'we knew it all along'. I mean who is really surprised by this. Of course Rove had a hand in the firings. It was shameful.

I had read somewhere that the 'replacement' attorneys came from Bob Jones university and other 'acceptable' law schools.
 
I want it all ON the record, so he can't keep lyin' about it !
 
E-Mails Show Larger White House Role in Prosecutor Firings



File this under no WMD's or 'we knew it all along'. I mean who is really surprised by this. Of course Rove had a hand in the firings. It was shameful.

I had read somewhere that the 'replacement' attorneys came from Bob Jones university and other 'acceptable' law schools.

First Off hazel we did find WMDS this I know for a fact since I was one of the folks who were looking for them prior to the invasion and second guess what the White House can firer and hire fed. Prosc. this has been the norm for a very long time but if you want to have this Witch Hunt great lets bring in Mr. Clinton and discuss all the firings he did of Fed Prosc.

Way to be a HyproPartisian Hack:roll:
 
First Off hazel we did find WMDS this I know for a fact since I was one of the folks who were looking for them prior to the invasion

Wait a sec, I thought we didn't find any WMDs in Iraq.

Is there documentation about this? I'd love to read it. Not saying you're wrong, only that I haven't heard about any WMDs being found.
 
First Off hazel we did find WMDS this I know for a fact since I was one of the folks who were looking for them prior to the invasion and second guess what the White House can firer and hire fed. Prosc. this has been the norm for a very long time but if you want to have this Witch Hunt great lets bring in Mr. Clinton and discuss all the firings he did of Fed Prosc.

Way to be a HyproPartisian Hack:roll:


You have wide discretion to dismiss them, but you can't dismiss them b/c they won't politicize the justice dept. What Mr. Bush did was unprecedented. Sure, Pres' have replaced all at the beginning of the term, but what the Bush WH did, no that never happened before.

Besides, if there's no fire in the smoke, who cares? Let it come out.
 
You have wide discretion to dismiss them, but you can't dismiss them b/c they won't politicize the justice dept. What Mr. Bush did was unprecedented. Sure, Pres' have replaced all at the beginning of the term, but what the Bush WH did, no that never happened before.

Besides, if there's no fire in the smoke, who cares? Let it come out.

Actually yes it has happen before under Mr. Clinton he replace many Fed Pros half way thru a mid term.
 
First Off hazel we did find WMDS this I know for a fact since I was one of the folks who were looking for them prior to the invasion

Dude, if you knew where they were all along, why didn't you tell the U.S. Military?? Because they could have used your help. Since they DIDN'T FIND SQUAT.


and second guess what the White House can firer and hire fed. Prosc. this has been the norm for a very long time but if you want to have this Witch Hunt great lets bring in Mr. Clinton and discuss all the firings he did of Fed Prosc.

Way to completely ignore the issue. Why were they fired? Who ordered the firing?

And, sans links to credible sources, I guess we're just supposed to take your word for it.

Note Scorpion from Scorpion:

Way to be a HyproPartisian Hack:roll:
 
Wait a sec, I thought we didn't find any WMDs in Iraq.

Is there documentation about this? I'd love to read it. Not saying you're wrong, only that I haven't heard about any WMDs being found.

Yes all over the internet and the UN Weapons Inspection Teams reports, but first I have to ask once again folks define what a WMD is and what we(UN Inspection Teams) were looking for.
 
E-Mails Show Larger White House Role in Prosecutor Firings



File this under no WMD's or 'we knew it all along'. I mean who is really surprised by this. Of course Rove had a hand in the firings. It was shameful.

I had read somewhere that the 'replacement' attorneys came from Bob Jones university and other 'acceptable' law schools.


The White House had a huge role in hirin'em, so it makes sense they had a huge role in firin'em.
 
You have wide discretion to dismiss them, but you can't dismiss them b/c they won't politicize the justice dept.
What federal statute precludes this? Title what? Chapter what? section what?
 
Dude, if you knew where they were all along, why didn't you tell the U.S. Military?? Because they could have used your help. Since they DIDN'T FIND SQUAT.




Way to completely ignore the issue. Why were they fired? Who ordered the firing?

And, sans links to credible sources, I guess we're just supposed to take your word for it.

Note Scorpion from Scorpion:

We did point the stuff out to the Military and they have found allot of stuff you do understand that the search is still going on and will be going on for quite a long time (Saddam) hide allot of stuff all over Iraq and other Countries.

As for the Fed Prosc. so I guess you must have been living out of the Country when Mr. Clinton did it then huh or maybe your were in Outer Space that's it. :doh
 
For about the 500th time, the prosecutors served at the President's pleasure, which meant that he could have fired them based on the advice of a talking shoehorn.

Please review the Clinton era firings of far larger numbers or Federal prosecutors for political reasons.

Carry on.
 
Last edited:
Fro about the 500th time, the prosecutors served at the President's pleasure, which meant that he could have fired them based on the advice of a talking shoehorn.

Please review the Clinton era firings of far larger numbers or Federal prosecutors for political reasons.

Carry on.

Willy didn't just fire a large number of ADA's. He fired 98; all but 5, I think.
 
What federal statute precludes this? Title what? Chapter what? section what?


Typical mantra of the Bush Apologists. Only focus is on whether it is technically "legal" or not....no consideration whether it is ethical or right.
 
Typical mantra of the Bush Apologists. Only focus is on whether it is technically "legal" or not....no consideration whether it is ethical or right.
"Legal" means saying you can or cannot.

"Ethical or right" means saying you should or should not.

The first one merits an investigation by Congress, the DoJ, or whatever other organ of government possesses the particular competence to do so.

The second merits second and third rounds of beer, and that's about it.
 
"Legal" means saying you can or cannot.

"Ethical or right" means saying you should or should not.

The first one merits an investigation by Congress, the DoJ, or whatever other organ of government possesses the particular competence to do so.

The second merits second and third rounds of beer, and that's about it.


Like I said....perfect example of the Bush Mantra - "Can we get away with it"....rather than "Is it the right thing to do".

Thank you for the demonstration.
 
Typical mantra of the Bush Apologists. Only focus is on whether it is technically "legal" or not....no consideration whether it is ethical or right.

Well, "legal", and, "right", aren't always in the same ballpark. The argument that we've heard from the Libbos is that Bush broke the law firing those ADAs. You've never put forth the argument that it, "was wrong, just wrong". We could have found common ground if the goofy Libbos would have taken that stance, maybe.
 
Like I said....perfect example of the Bush Mantra - "Can we get away with it"....rather than "Is it the right thing to do".

Thank you for the demonstration.

LMAO!!!!!...as if PBO has done, "the right thing", killing all those jobs since he's been in office. Whatta joke!
 
Willy didn't just fire a large number of ADA's. He fired 98; all but 5, I think.

Clinton fired Bush 1's prosecutors and Bush 2 fired Clinton's prosecutors. That's the way it works. But then Bush 2 fired his own prosecutors because they weren't manufacturing enough fake cases against Democrats. That's where the issue is.
 
Willy didn't just fire a large number of ADA's. He fired 98; all but 5, I think.


This just shows how little you know about the subject.

Note to apdst: All new Presidents eventually fire all ADA within the first few months of their tenure. All of them. Carter. Reagan. H W Bush. Clinton. Dubya. Obama.

What they didn't do was fire ADA in the second term (if they had one). There have been a few exceptions, but it just doesn't happen.

See where I'm going? They fired "their own men." And according to what the evidence says, they were fired for political reasons. They didn't go after enough Democrats, and that's why it's been alleged they were fired.
 
For about the 500th time, the prosecutors served at the President's pleasure, which meant that he could have fired them based on the advice of a talking shoehorn.
And for about the 501st time, serving at the "pleasure of the President" is not a blank check to obstruct justice or violate the Hatch Act.

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/contempt_memo_072407.pdf

"Firing a U.S. Attorney in order to impede or obstruct a pending criminal case, or a pending criminal investigation, could constitute an obstruction of justice. (snip) If Mr. Iglesias or another prosecutor was fired in retaliation for failing to bring vote fraud cases that lacked a reasonable legal or factual basis, the firing could also violate the criminal Hatch Act prohibition on retaliation contained in 18 USC 606. (snip) To the extent a prosecutor was fired in order to bring in a more compliant individual to pursue politically advantageous cases, such misconduct could possibly violate the prohibitions on obstructing government proceedings contained in 18 USC 1505 and 18 USC 1512(c)(2)."

"Concerns about the apparently political nature of these firings are only heightened by the emerging allegations that some U.S. Attorneys who were retained by the Department - the so-called "loyal Bushies" - may have selectively prosecuted Democrats. Bringing the force of the federal criminal justice apparatus to bear on an individual based in any way on that person's political affiliation is a clear abuse of the prosecutorial function, and may well violate the person's civil rights.

"Evidence that such wrongdoing may have occurred includes a recent academic study finding that federal prosecutors during the Bush Administration have indicted Democratic officeholders far more frequently than their Republican counterparts. The study's authors found that of the 375 cases they identified, 10 involved independents, 67 involved Republicans, and 298 involved Democrats, and noted that local Democrats were seven times as likely as Republicans to be subject to criminal charges from the Department of Justice."

Please review the Clinton era firings of far larger numbers or Federal prosecutors for political reasons.
And for about the 501st time:

"Although Bush and President Bill Clinton each dismissed nearly all U.S. attorneys upon taking office, legal experts and former prosecutors say the firing of a large number of prosecutors in the middle of a term appears to be unprecedented and threatens the independence of prosecutors."

Former acting attorney general Stuart Gerson, meanwhile, wrote that it "is customary for a President to replace U.S. Attorneys at the beginning of a term. Ronald Reagan replaced every sitting U.S. Attorney when he appointed his first Attorney General. President Clinton, acting through me as Acting AG, did the same thing, even with few permanent candidates in mind."

"Although Bill Clinton ordered the wholesale removal of U.S. attorneys when he took office to remove Republican holdovers, his replacement appointees stayed for his second term."

So Is This U.S. Attorney Purge Unprecedented Or Not? - Public Eye - CBS News
 
Yes, this is a totally non issue. That's why Bush's Attorney General (Mukasey) appointed a special prosecutor to address whether there is any criminal wrongdoing. Nope, nothing here, so let's waste the taxpayer's money and conduct an investigation on nothing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/30/washington/30attorney.html

:2brickwal
 
First Off hazel we did find WMDS this I know for a fact since I was one of the folks who were looking for them prior to the invasion and second guess what the White House can firer and hire fed. Prosc. this has been the norm for a very long time but if you want to have this Witch Hunt great lets bring in Mr. Clinton and discuss all the firings he did of Fed Prosc.

Way to be a HyproPartisian Hack:roll:


Jumping in late. Clinton's firing of all the federal prosecutors when he entered office is a false equivalency. It's normal for a president to fire his predecessor's federal attorney's when he comes in office. Reagan did it, Bush Sr did it, George W did it to Clinton. That's the norm. What's not the norm is firing your own appointees then making up an excuse why. Then lying under oath about it.

You have two separate problems. The conduct that Bradley Schlozeman and Monica Goodling showed was appalling. They violated ethics by making hirings political. If this wasn't such a big scandal why did 9 senior staff members at DOJ resign including the AG, DAG, AAG, Chief of Staff, Deputy Chief of Staff. Obviously this was a big problem
 
What federal statute precludes this? Title what? Chapter what? section what?

Well it can be said that this could be obstruction of justice. Carol Lam had been working on some high profile investigations including bringing down Duke Cunningham, and 3rd in Charge at the CIA Dusty Foggo
 
Back
Top Bottom