China concerned about abortions

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | China concerned about abortions

Authorities in China have highlighted inadequate knowledge of contraception and poor sex education as major factors in the high number of abortions there.

There are 13 million abortions each year, compared to 20 million births, according to newly published research.

Researchers believe the real figure could be even higher because there are many abortions at unregistered clinics.

Other countries have higher rates. They include Russia - which some years has more terminations than births.

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This is a very interesting article. I am curious to get thoughts on this. Tell me, what do you think?

The situation is complex. Socially, China is very much in the 1950s, where the women are expected to deliver sex when the men want it, and the men who want it, mostly don't want children. Because of the one child policy and the high amount of pressure placed on the tradition of the next generation, people in China tend to avoid having children until they are ready. This means that an unwanted pregnancy gets terminated.

China is living in the stone ages when it comes to sex education. People know the basic facts of life, but things like STDs they simply blame on the West. On World AIDS Day, the leader of the AIDS Foundation in Beijing is tossed in jail... every single year. His office is also raided and his files destroyed. (Obviously he has backups.) China continues to perpetuate that AIDS is a "Western disease" and it is not rife in China.

China's xenophobia has lead it down this dark road.

Orius said:

The situation is complex. Socially, China is very much in the 1950s, where the women are expected to deliver sex when the men want it, and the men who want it, mostly don't want children. Because of the one child policy and the high amount of pressure placed on the tradition of the next generation, people in China tend to avoid having children until they are ready. This means that an unwanted pregnancy gets terminated.

China is living in the stone ages when it comes to sex education. People know the basic facts of life, but things like STDs they simply blame on the West. On World AIDS Day, the leader of the AIDS Foundation in Beijing is tossed in jail... every single year. His office is also raided and his files destroyed. (Obviously he has backups.) China continues to perpetuate that AIDS is a "Western disease" and it is not rife in China.

China's xenophobia has lead it down this dark road.

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You are right on many things, but do you not think that the modernization of China is leading to more single women abortions, at least in cities such as Beijing? Also, I would think that the lack of religion, for the most part, would leave abortion as less taboo, than in the West, thus there is not so much of a negative stigma to termination of pregnancies. Couple this with women being more independent in the larger cities, ie. working women who date, become pregnant and wish to continue with regular life just get abortions. As the article points out, most abortions occur in women between 20-29, who are single.

tlmorg02 said:

You are right on many things, but do you not think that the modernization of China is leading to more single women abortions, at least in cities such as Beijing? Also, I would think that the lack of religion, for the most part, would leave abortion as less taboo, than in the West, thus there is not so much of a negative stigma to termination of pregnancies. Couple this with women being more independent in the larger cities, ie. working women who date, become pregnant and wish to continue with regular life just get abortions. As the article points out, most abortions occur in women between 20-29, who are single.

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You raise interesting points. I do think though that the vast majority of abortions happening in China are outside of the most Westernized cities (Beijing and Shanghai). Religion is an interesting question, but I honestly don't think it factors into the equation. Dire poverty will increase abortion no matter what way you slice it, not to mention the one child policy.

People have negative financial incentives from government to abort children if they conceive a second child. Unless they are rich and can pay the steep fines, can afford in-vitro which usually guarantees a multiple-child pregnancy (since twins, etc. are allowed), or they are minorities who are allowed to have two children, all other people will go the abortion route.

I do think as the middle class continues to grow and there are more independent women, there will be more single women aborting in the major cities. Primarily, if China is so concerned about abortion, then it should remove the one child policy. It's "concern" is just to save face with the world, it really couldn't care less. Life in China is so dispensible. If someone is killed, someone else will just replace them.

Orius said:

You raise interesting points. I do think though that the vast majority of abortions happening in China are outside of the most Westernized cities (Beijing and Shanghai). Religion is an interesting question, but I honestly don't think it factors into the equation. Dire poverty will increase abortion no matter what way you slice it, not to mention the one child policy.

People have negative financial incentives from government to abort children if they conceive a second child. Unless they are rich and can pay the steep fines, can afford in-vitro which usually guarantees a multiple-child pregnancy (since twins, etc. are allowed), or they are minorities who are allowed to have two children, all other people will go the abortion route.

I do think as the middle class continues to grow and there are more independent women, there will be more single women aborting in the major cities. Primarily, if China is so concerned about abortion, then it should remove the one child policy. It's "concern" is just to save face with the world, it really couldn't care less. Life in China is so dispensible. If someone is killed, someone else will just replace them.

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Which is I think, the underlying reason there is abortion in the first place. So many people in the world, people don't value each other, and much less than that little child in the womb.

DarkWizard12 said:

Which is I think, the underlying reason there is abortion in the first place. So many people in the world, people don't value each other, and much less than that little child in the womb.

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It's kind of a catch 22. Life is not valued because there are too many people, and there are too many people because life is valued. Oh, and basic animal instincts.

Right now I'm in Nepal and even though the Nepalese are a highly spiritual people, it's not hard to walk through the streets, gazing at the poverty, heaps of people (mostly homeless children) crowding the streets, and pondering the value of life.

We in the West have the luxury of debating these ethics, but in nations that are overpopulated and lack the resources, abortions are the status quo. Our birth rates in the West are down but they aren't here... if globalization continues successfully, the mobility of people will be a future scenario. All of these people will flood to the West, and we will experience what it means to be a grain of sand in a mob.

Today I saw a cremation down by the river. It was beautiful, and a reminder that human life is really temporary and even disposable. The more I experience death in this way, the more I realize it doesn't matter. The anti-choice crowd fights for the sanctity of life, but they fail to realize the transient nature of their own lives. None of it is permanent, so I am content to let the cards fall where they will.

Orius said:

It's kind of a catch 22. Life is not valued because there are too many people, and there are too many people because life is valued. Oh, and basic animal instincts.

Right now I'm in Nepal and even though the Nepalese are a highly spiritual people, it's not hard to walk through the streets, gazing at the poverty, heaps of people (mostly homeless children) crowding the streets, and pondering the value of life.

We in the West have the luxury of debating these ethics, but in nations that are overpopulated and lack the resources, abortions are the status quo. Our birth rates in the West are down but they aren't here... if globalization continues successfully, the mobility of people will be a future scenario. All of these people will flood to the West, and we will experience what it means to be a grain of sand in a mob.

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Orius, your unique situation affords you the opportunity to give the rest of us a glimpse into everyday life in China. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this topic. :respekt:

Today I saw a cremation down by the river. It was beautiful, and a reminder that human life is really temporary and even disposable. The more I experience death in this way, the more I realize it doesn't matter. The anti-choice crowd fights for the sanctity of life, but they fail to realize the transient nature of their own lives. None of it is permanent, so I am content to let the cards fall where they will.

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This is a western culture thing, and has little to do with the abortion debate, imo. Part of what makes life sacred is the reality that none of us is guaranteed our next breath, much less another day. Western society cloisters birth and death, fearing them rather than embracing them as intrinsic parts of this amazing phenomena we call life. It's a shame, because in so doing, we rob ourselves of the opportunity to really live and fully appreciate life itself. This is something I've always envied of certain other cultures. :twocents:

China has a single-child policy and enforces it with abortions, so what's the surprise that so many unborn babies are being murdered in China all about?

The important question is how many abortions follow determination that the unborn child is female?

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

China has a single-child policy and enforces it with abortions, so what's the surprise that so many unborn babies are being murdered in China all about?

The important question is how many abortions follow determination that the unborn child is female?

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Aborting female babies shouldn't come as a surprise in a society in which there is tremendous pressure on couples to bear sons to replace the family patriarch, especially if the government of that society implements a one-child policy . :shrug:

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

China has a single-child policy and enforces it with abortions, so what's the surprise that so many unborn babies are being murdered in China all about?

The important question is how many abortions follow determination that the unborn child is female?

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China does not enforce the one-child policy with abortions, it enforces it with tax penalties and fines. People have abortions to avoid these.