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Poll: Obama loses ground on health care

Renae

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WASHINGTON - Despite his public-relations blitz over the past two weeks to promote his plans to reform the nation's health-care system — including holding two town halls on Wednesday — President Barack Obama has lost ground on this issue with the American public, according to the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

Pluralities now say that the president’s health care plan is a bad idea, and that it will result in the quality of their care getting worse. What’s more, just four in 10 approve of his handling on the issue.
Poll: Obama loses ground on health care - White House- msnbc.com

Obama's learning a lesson, and that lesson is American's really do NOT want the government running their lives.
 
As I cited in a poll in the other section of the forum, his handling of the health care issue has cost him some points with me.
 
I said somewhere else that it is beginning to look to me like he'll essentially be a lame duck before the end of his first year in office.
 
the harder he tries, the further backwards he goes

definition of INEFFECTIVE politician

the most INEPT pol at the national level america has ever seen

faster loser in history

he had the world, including SIXTY senators and a THRILLED media

and now his entire agenda is already kaput

losers, reversals and dead letters---cap and trade, the public option, personal diplomacy with iran, blaming bush, closing gitmo, investigating "torture," prosecuting cheney, cutting the deficit in half, paygo, the stimuli, the cars takeovers, reaching out to rogues and runts, bailouts and bonuses for bunglers and bankrupts and bums, ending rendition, ending detention, ending the patriot act, ending don't ask don't tell, not hiring lobbyists, putting legislation online, ending earmarks, public finance of campaigns, not taxing benefits (the mccain plan), not taxing those under 250G, deficits at 12.65% of gdp...

what remains within the Already Irrelevant's restricted reach?

minimum wage?

afterschool programs?

the most INCOMPETENT politician at the national level america has ever seen

sorry
 
I said somewhere else that it is beginning to look to me like he'll essentially be a lame duck before the end of his first year in office.

In sports, we call this "Over extending yourself".

Obama has failed to focus on the big picture, and is running into a wall his speeches cannot overcome.

2010 is gonna be interesting.
 
In sports, we call this "Over extending yourself".

Obama has failed to focus on the big picture, and is running into a wall his speeches cannot overcome.

2010 is gonna be interesting.

I actually think you are on the right track here. In my mind he's pushing too much, too hard, too fast. The steamroller strategy is costing him. Essentially Washington is in grid lock over some of the programs. Recovery Act being one of them.
 
Poll: Obama loses ground on health care - White House- msnbc.com

Obama's learning a lesson, and that lesson is American's really do NOT want the government running their lives.

Oh yes....ahem, Americans...are teaching Obama a big lesson indeed.

TheHill.com - Lobbyists gain upper hand in Obama battle
In stark contrast to Obama’s first few months in office, special interest groups this summer have aggressively opposed the president’s top domestic priorities. And they have succeeded in slowing legislation to revamp the nation’s healthcare system, won an essential change to climate change legislation and put off efforts to set up a consumer agency in the financial sector.

House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.) initially planned to pass a financial regulatory reform bill through the lower chamber by the August recess. But unified financial-industry opposition to Obama’s proposal to set up a Consumer Financial Protection Agency caused Frank to delay his legislation until the fall.

Whether you agree with Obama's proposals or not, let's not pretend that Obama is coming up against a tidal wave of good old fashioned Americans armed with their rugged, can-do American attitude. The Republicans may be in the overwhelming minority right now, but big money is still very much in charge.

Finally, I do agree that Americans (the rugged, independent type at least) don't want government to run their lives, and one of the items that the health care bill would have overturned is the law that prevents Americans from getting their prescription drugs from abroad, like Canada. The lobbyists will almost certainly kill that as well, thus ensuring that government tells you exactly where you are allowed to buy your drugs.
 
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This is what I think: I think people are tired of hearing about it.... period. Americans have a tendency to lose interest pretty darn fast. Furthermore, they get tired of the bickering, which, of course, the right is doing as much to promote. The childishness and lies of the right are getting in the way along with blue dogs, insurance companies and big pharma. Without a public option, we are all screwed.
 
The Republican strategy is working: assign some members to "negotiate" with Democrats, stressing changes in the health care bill which will neuter it and make it unworkable. The goal, after all, is to either kill the bill or poison it so it will fail.

I have not seen a single act of good will from Republicans on this issue, no gesture that indicates one of them actually wants to improve health care for Americans. It amazes me that a couple hundred thousand dollars in campaign donations can achieve such total results, the denial of workable health care in the world's most powerful nation.

Republican "cooperation" in the health care bill is an act. Forget them and pass the best bill possible. There can be no bipartisan legislation with these people, their every word is calculated to advance the failure of the Democratic administration.
 
The Republican strategy is working: assign some members to "negotiate" with Democrats, stressing changes in the health care bill which will neuter it and make it unworkable. The goal, after all, is to either kill the bill or poison it so it will fail.
No kidding! The bill is a bad bill--it will damage health care. Stopping it is in the best interests of folks in this country who actually enjoy being able to see a doctor when they are sick.

Republican "cooperation" in the health care bill is an act. Forget them and pass the best bill possible. There can be no bipartisan legislation with these people, their every word is calculated to advance the failure of the Democratic administration.
The "best bill" in this case would be no bill at all. The Anti-Republicans can't conceive of healthcare that isn't run and rationed by government bureaucrats. They are pushing insane GovernmentCare ideas which are proven budget-busting failures--ideas that have been tried and have failed (TennCare, Commonwealth Care). Stopping such lunatic left wing errors is the best thing any legislator could do whose priority is the best interests of Americans.

America needs everybody to push Dear Leader's Reign of Error towards collapse--his "success" would be a fiscal disaster for this country.

Such is the nature of liberty, that to love this country is to despise Dear Leader and to pray mightily for the total failure of his agenda.
 
I actually think you are on the right track here. In my mind he's pushing too much, too hard, too fast. The steamroller strategy is costing him. Essentially Washington is in grid lock over some of the programs. Recovery Act being one of them.

I agree Lerxst, he is being way too ambitious.
 
All freedom loving individuals need to take advantage of the August recess to hammer their Congressman and Senators with phone calls and faxes to kill this bill. Once the government controls our health care, it's all down hill from here.
 
All freedom loving individuals need to take advantage of the August recess to hammer their Congressman and Senators with phone calls and faxes to kill this bill. Once the government controls our health care, it's all down hill from here.

That's not necessarily true. Why do you think that???? :confused:
 
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All freedom loving individuals need to take advantage of the August recess to hammer their Congressman and Senators with phone calls and faxes to kill this bill. Once the government controls our health care, it's all down hill from here.

Oh yeh, history is strewn with examples of poorly run government health care systems. The VA, Medicare, the plan that covers Congress.....wait...those all work. I thought government couldn't do anything right, you know...."I'm from the government and I want to help"? So if government run health care is a bad idea, how come the health care programs that the government runs WORK? Oh, you didn't think about that.
 
The "best bill" in this case would be no bill at all. The Anti-Republicans can't conceive of healthcare that isn't run and rationed by government bureaucrats. They are pushing insane GovernmentCare ideas which are proven budget-busting failures--ideas that have been tried and have failed (TennCare, Commonwealth Care). Stopping such lunatic left wing errors is the best thing any legislator could do whose priority is the best interests of Americans.
Funny: wasn't it the "freedom loving" Repubs who are primarily responsible for the Medicare prescription drug benefit designed to force taxpayers to subsidize private insurers and the pharmaceutical industry? No small surprise that special interest groups welcomed that particular budget busting piece of legislation.
America needs everybody to push Dear Leader's Reign of Error towards collapse--his "success" would be a fiscal disaster for this country.
I think that we will get some sort of H.C. bill and it may be my state that has a large hand in it.
Our Republican Senators are hearing an ear full from Mainers who are being crushed by H.C. costs- at least the ones who are not already enrolled in Medicare or Medicaid. Letters to the Bangor Daily run about 5 to 1, in favor.
 
I'm just curious, who here is paying their own health care costs and are happy with the result? Seems to me there are an awful lot of veterans against "government run health care", whose own health care comes from the V.A.
 
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Oh yeh, history is strewn with examples of poorly run government health care systems. The VA, Medicare, the plan that covers Congress.....wait...those all work. I thought government couldn't do anything right, you know...."I'm from the government and I want to help"? So if government run health care is a bad idea, how come the health care programs that the government runs WORK? Oh, you didn't think about that.

The VA has always been a mess. I used to be a claim examiner and recieved many calls from vets who would compain about the care they recieved through the VA and the waits involved to see a doctor.
 
The VA has always been a mess. I used to be a claim examiner and recieved many calls from vets who would compain about the care they recieved through the VA and the waits involved to see a doctor.

The VA, on an annual budget of $87 billion, offers beds to 1,000,000 veterans annually and serves 60,000,000 outpatient visits each year. It is widely considered to be a successful government run system, despite your list of horror stories.
What I find curious is the veterans who benefit from VA care yet vigorously protest single payer care for the rest of us.
 
The VA, on an annual budget of $87 billion, offers beds to 1,000,000 veterans annually and serves 60,000,000 outpatient visits each year. It is widely considered to be a successful government run system, despite your list of horror stories.
What I find curious is the veterans who benefit from VA care yet vigorously protest single payer care for the rest of us.

Really, its "WIDELY" believed to be that? Do you base this off......anything? Or is this just your own opinion and anecdotal?
 
Thanks jack. I'd still hardly call a few articles as it being "widely" considered a "successfully run" entity, any more than you could say that a few articles of "horror stories" could show its "widely" considered a "badly run" entity. What I'm saying is that there's as many horror stories coming out of the VA and poor views of it it seems as there are positive things coming out of it. To state its "Widely" considered that is to be perputing that a large majority of people in the know consider it that way, which frankly I've never seen any evidence of that fact but that there's a very, very mixed feeling in regards to both the level of care provided by the VA and the successful running of the organization, which are two seperate things.
 
Thanks jack. I'd still hardly call a few articles as it being "widely" considered a "successfully run" entity, any more than you could say that a few articles of "horror stories" could show its "widely" considered a "badly run" entity. What I'm saying is that there's as many horror stories coming out of the VA and poor views of it it seems as there are positive things coming out of it. To state its "Widely" considered that is to be perputing that a large majority of people in the know consider it that way, which frankly I've never seen any evidence of that fact but that there's a very, very mixed feeling in regards to both the level of care provided by the VA and the successful running of the organization, which are two seperate things.

My point is that Reagan's "government here to help" mantra was and is dishonest. There are plenty of examples of well-run government programs, and Medicare and the VA represent two good examples of functioning single-payer health care systems.
 
From the CBO:


Evidence of the Quality of VA’s Health Care


VA officials have often cited studies that have given the department high ratings for the quality of its medical care. For example, then-Secretary of Veterans Affairs James Nicholson stated in a speech in July 2007, "We lead private and Government health care providers in almost every measure and our state-of-the-art quality care arcs from the research lab to a patient’s bedside."7 Michael Kussman, then-Acting (now confirmed) Under Secretary for Health, gave testimony before the Congress in March 2007 in which he called VA "the Nation’s leader in providing high-quality health care" and cited a number of external research studies to support that claim.8


... A 2004 study assessed the quality of care for VA patients and for patients in a national sample.22 Employing a cross-sectional design, the study compared indicators for a sample of VA patients drawn from 26 facilities located in 2 VISNs and for a national sample of patients from 12 communities—using data collected between 1997 and 2000, a period during which performance measurement and electronic medical records had been implemented throughout VA’s medical system. The authors chose to examine process measures, noting that such measures "are more readily actionable than outcomes measures, require less risk adjustment, and follow the structure of national guidelines."23 Altogether, the study included 348 indicators drawn from national guidelines and the medical literature to address both inpatient and outpatient care, including screening, diagnosis, treatment, and follow-up activities.

The study found that, on average, 67 percent of VA patients received the care specified by the indicators, compared with 51 percent of the patients in the national sample. For both chronic care and preventive care, the ratings for VA patients were higher than for the others, but for acute care, slightly lower (although the difference was not statistically significant). For depression, diabetes, hyperlipidemia, and hypertension, VA patients received significantly better care.

...

Possible Explanations for VA’s Achievements in Quality of Care

Observers have suggested a number of factors to explain VA’s higher scores on many measures of health care quality compared with those of other systems. In particular, VA’s structure as an integrated delivery system makes it easier for the department to apply two important tools:

■ Incentives given to managers and providers to meet targets for quality of care and adherence to clinical guidelines and

■ Health IT systems, which include reminders about tests and treatments recommended according to clinical guidelines.


Other factors may also be important in explaining VA’s performance—for example, the low out-of-pocket costs for the department’s health care reduce the disincentives for patients to seek medical care, thus potentially enhancing the department’s performance in meeting clinical guidelines for preventive care and the management of chronic diseases.


http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/88xx/doc8892/MainText.3.1.shtm
 
Thanks jack. I'd still hardly call a few articles as it being "widely" considered a "successfully run" entity, any more than you could say that a few articles of "horror stories" could show its "widely" considered a "badly run" entity. What I'm saying is that there's as many horror stories coming out of the VA and poor views of it it seems as there are positive things coming out of it. To state its "Widely" considered that is to be perputing that a large majority of people in the know consider it that way, which frankly I've never seen any evidence of that fact but that there's a very, very mixed feeling in regards to both the level of care provided by the VA and the successful running of the organization, which are two seperate things.


Sorry, I understand. I posted too soon, I just made another post with some excerpts from a CBO report.

There is no denying that there are some horror stories, but the level of care at VA is higher than that of other systems.
 
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