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NPR - The Costs of Health Care, Political and Financial

The unfortunate truth about the American health care system is that it's almost entirely controlled by a for profit industry (insurance). No average American can easily cover the price tag of health care in America, and thus they rely on health insurance agencies who exert a lot of energy in finding ways to deny claims and coverage. Considering that the U.S. spends more per-capita on health care than any other nation on the planet, the populace shouldn't be experiencing such hassle in receiving care and I feel it's indicative of the fact that the U.S. system is no longer centered around providing care (if it ever was in the first place).

Agreed. For Profit care is a stupid idea.
 
thats some of it, but the supply side is also artificially constrained by regulation.

How do you figure that? Just curious where that information comes from because I'm not seeing how regulation is prohibiting supply.
 
The unfortunate truth about the American health care system is that it's almost entirely controlled by a for profit industry (insurance).
As it should be.

No average American can easily cover the price tag of health care in America, and thus they rely on health insurance agencies who exert a lot of energy in finding ways to deny claims and coverage.
Interesting. I've never had a claim or coverage denied.
I've had a multitude of procedures, I've had kids, I've had PT - none denied.
Nor do I know anyone that has.
Can you explain that?

Considering that the U.S. spends more per-capita on health care than any other nation on the planet, the populace shouldn't be experiencing such hassle in receiving care
Your premise that these hassles exist to any significant degree is unsupported.
 
As it should be.


Interesting. I've never had a claim or coverage denied.
I've had a multitude of procedures, I've had kids, I've had PT - none denied.
Nor do I know anyone that has.
Can you explain that?


Your premise that these hassles exist to any significant degree is unsupported.

So what are you trying to claim here, that since you have not been denied...YET, that everything is fine? I know appealing to the empathetic side to a conservative is pointless (since it does not exist), so think of the selfish side. Just because it has not happened yet does not make it a guarantee. All the for profit industry needs is an excuse to drop you the moment you become non-profitable. All fine and good I guess as long as it happens to other people, so when/if it happens to you I guess you will just smile and accept it? Give me a break, we BOTH know the answer to this.
 
So what are you trying to claim here, that since you have not been denied...YET, that everything is fine?
I am questioning the veracity of your claim.
Please feel free to support you claim regarding the widespread rejections of coverage and claims.
Until then, your premise that these hassles exist to any significant degree is unsupported.

I know appealing to the empathetic side to a conservative is pointless (since it does not exist),
Just as appealing to the intelligent side of a liberal is equally impossible, for the same reason.

All the for profit industry needs is an excuse to drop you the moment you become non-profitable.
This happens because the money that goes out exceeds the money that goes in. This will be the same for the goverment-run health care -- but then, liberals don't care about the givernment spending more than it takes in (unless a Republican is in charge).

All fine and good I guess as long as it happens to other people, so when/if it happens to you I guess you will just smile and accept it?
Unlike liberals, -I- do not base my political posiions on my personal situation because -I- understand that the world is bigger than just me -- and so, whatever might happen to me, my stance will remain the same.
 
The unfortunate truth about the American health care system is that it's almost entirely controlled by a for profit industry (insurance). No average American can easily cover the price tag of health care in America, and thus they rely on health insurance agencies who exert a lot of energy in finding ways to deny claims and coverage. Considering that the U.S. spends more per-capita on health care than any other nation on the planet, the populace shouldn't be experiencing such hassle in receiving care and I feel it's indicative of the fact that the U.S. system is no longer centered around providing care (if it ever was in the first place).

Why is for profit health care bad?

A lot of Americans can afford the out of pocket expenses of health care and it's not just rich people.

Agreed. For Profit care is a stupid idea.

Why?
 
Yep, I find that whenever I ask people, with flaky positions, questions they tend to crumble with overly generic talking points not bound in facts.

Then you swing the hammer and finish it off. :shoot

Because one should not have the bottom line as the end product. The insurance companies hire people to figure how to get away with the least amount of care for people in order to save dimes, even when those kinds of care are included in their package. It's a way to find loopholes in the structure so that the company can profit on people's pain.

I don't know why people are for profit health care. It makes no sense at all. Many of the arguments from the right in this regard are incredibly disingenuous. It's an immoral system.
 
You're asking a socialst why profit is bad?
:shock:

I think profits are great in many sectors. People should be able to do the jobs they want, own businesses, and become rich if they can. But, when it comes to health care, no. Health care is a different thing altogether.
 
What is wrong with you Granola Liberals can you not read. You pick one item to attack but even there you're wrong we hear news stories all the time of patients coming here for treatment and people in the UK and Canada have to wait months for simple treatment. Canadians come here in droves for treatment because of the rationing of care there.
The other thing you over looked because you're part of the I hate America Obama disciples is that I clearly said the system needs to be fixed.

Actually, you are just misinformed about this. Canadians are not coming here in"droves". The Canadian gov't has agreements with some states, like Maine, to pay for Canadians to come here for M.R.I.s It is a win/win arrangement. The U.S. has underutilized, expensive equipment. Canadian provinces find it cost effective to outsource some procedures rather than buy more machines. It is called intelligent planning, not a failure of their system.

Furthermore, lots of uninsured/ under insured Americans are going elsewhere for non emergency care: http://cincinnati.bizjournal.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/06/29/story20.html

Popular destinations for U.S. patients include India, Thailand, Mexico, Costa Rica and Singapore. Patients are commonly uninsured or underinsured, Woodman has said, and patients can expect rates 25 percent to 75 percent less than those in the U.S.

That can amount to tens of thousands of dollars for major procedures such as a hip replacement or a heart valve replacement.


Patients often get treatment in state-of-the-art, even luxurious facilities, and often by U.S.-trained doctors. Some have added credibility through accreditation by the Joint Commission International.
 
Interesting. I've never had a claim or coverage denied.
I've had a multitude of procedures, I've had kids, I've had PT - none denied.
Nor do I know anyone that has.
Can you explain that?
The most egregious insurance practices occur in the individual market. How do you obtain your insurance?
 
Because one should not have the bottom line as the end product. The insurance companies hire people to figure how to get away with the least amount of care for people in order to save dimes, even when those kinds of care are included in their package. It's a way to find loopholes in the structure so that the company can profit on people's pain.

I don't know why people are for profit health care. It makes no sense at all. Many of the arguments from the right in this regard are incredibly disingenuous. It's an immoral system.

Do you disagree with the for profit food sector then? You need food more than you need health care.
 
Do you disagree with the for profit food sector then? You need food more than you need health care.

Is the food industry a completely free market, or are their price controls, subsidies, and government intervention into the market?
 
Do you disagree with the for profit food sector then? You need food more than you need health care.

Much of the food sector is regulated heavily and prices are kept down. So, no, I have no problem with it. Subsidies by the government keep the prices down. What I don't like about the food industry is they try to sell all of us junk for cheap and make healthy food far more expensive. Now that makes no sense to me.
 
Is the food industry a completely free market, or are their price controls, subsidies, and government intervention into the market?

Much of the food sector is regulated heavily and prices are kept down. So, no, I have no problem with it. Subsidies by the government keep the prices down. What I don't like about the food industry is they try to sell all of us junk for cheap and make healthy food far more expensive. Now that makes no sense to me.

Government corn subsidies help keep things like High Fructose corn syrup in our soft drinks and other foods instead of real sugar, real sugar is better for you.

There are no price controls in the food industry in fact government is helping establish corporate farms instead of letting the little guys compete.

Ever hear of Monsanto? They own the rights to Round Up ready corn and soy.
They are a very large corporation and they receive farm subsidies. If you don't know Round Up is a weed killer, the corn is genetically altered so that the weed killer won't kill the corn.

Most of the farm subsidies go to a small pool of corporations.
 
Government corn subsidies help keep things like High Fructose corn syrup in our soft drinks and other foods instead of real sugar, real sugar is better for you.

There are no price controls in the food industry in fact government is helping establish corporate farms instead of letting the little guys compete.

Ever hear of Monsanto? They own the rights to Round Up ready corn and soy.
They are a very large corporation and they receive farm subsidies. If you don't know Round Up is a weed killer, the corn is genetically altered so that the weed killer won't kill the corn.

Most of the farm subsidies go to a small pool of corporations.

The U.S. guarantees prices to farmers, and subsidizes basics from wheat to dairy.
This is from the[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_subsidy"] wiki page[/ame] supposedly using USDA 2006 Fiscal Year Budget

The following are the subsidies by crop in 2004 in the United States.
Commodity US Dollars (in Millions)
Feed Grains $2,841
Upland and ElS Cotton $1,420
Wheat $1,173
Rice $1,130
Soybeans and products $610
Dairy $ 295
Peanuts $259
Sugar $61
Minor Oilseeds $29
Tobacco $18
Wool and Mohair $12
Vegetable Oil products $11
Honey $3
Other Crops $160
Total $8,022

I think the point is for basic food stuffs there little laissez faire market here, instead I would consider this significant intervention to the tune of $8 billion.
 
The U.S. guarantees prices to farmers, and subsidizes basics from wheat to dairy.
This is from the wiki page supposedly using USDA 2006 Fiscal Year Budget

The following are the subsidies by crop in 2004 in the United States.
Commodity US Dollars (in Millions)
Feed Grains $2,841
Upland and ElS Cotton $1,420
Wheat $1,173
Rice $1,130
Soybeans and products $610
Dairy $ 295
Peanuts $259
Sugar $61
Minor Oilseeds $29
Tobacco $18
Wool and Mohair $12
Vegetable Oil products $11
Honey $3
Other Crops $160
Total $8,022

I think the point is for basic food stuffs there little laissez faire market here, instead I would consider this significant intervention to the tune of $8 billion.

Again since most of the recipients are large corporations it creates a negative market place where consumers are paying more for their food than it actually costs. Large corporations reign in the profits from such.

Government intervention is bad, in nearly every case you can present.

"This paper analyzes how Washington distributed farm subsidies in 2002 and illustrates that farm subsidies continue to represent America's largest corporate welfare program."

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Another Year at the Federal Trough: Farm Subsidies for the Rich, Famous, and Elected Jumped Again in 2002
 
I think profits are great in many sectors. People should be able to do the jobs they want, own businesses, and become rich if they can. But, when it comes to health care, no. Health care is a different thing altogether.
Why? How?
And, If it ss -so- important that people should not make money off of it, what argument is there that people should be paid for providing the goods and services related to it?
 
The most egregious insurance practices occur in the individual market. How do you obtain your insurance?
I'll take that as a "no".
 
The U.S. guarantees prices to farmers, and subsidizes basics from wheat to dairy.
This is from the wiki page supposedly using USDA 2006 Fiscal Year Budget

The following are the subsidies by crop in 2004 in the United States.
Commodity US Dollars (in Millions)
Feed Grains $2,841
Upland and ElS Cotton $1,420
Wheat $1,173
Rice $1,130
Soybeans and products $610
Dairy $ 295
Peanuts $259
Sugar $61
Minor Oilseeds $29
Tobacco $18
Wool and Mohair $12
Vegetable Oil products $11
Honey $3
Other Crops $160
Total $8,022

I think the point is for basic food stuffs there little laissez faire market here, instead I would consider this significant intervention to the tune of $8 billion.

I don't think they are getting it Sam_W
 
The U.S. guarantees prices to farmers, and subsidizes basics from wheat to dairy.

The following are the subsidies by crop in 2004 in the United States.
Total $8,022

I think the point is for basic food stuffs there little laissez faire market here, instead I would consider this significant intervention to the tune of $8 billion.
$8B represents 0.7% of the total GDP based only on food production (not total agriculture) from 2006.
U.S. Department of Commerce. Bureau of Economic Analysis
Table 1.5.6
This negates your "there is little laissez faire market" argument.
 
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Just because Canadian and UK systems have flaws does not mean the American system does not need fixing.

Just because the American system has flaws doesn't mean it needs to resemble the same failed systems in Europe and Canada.

I had an argument the other day with a Canadian who, in their defense of waiting times, chimed that someone needing lesser care should have to wait because perhaps the Doctors have more pressing diseases/operations to deal with and this could wait.

My response was; "say what?" Why does ANYONE have to wait for ANY level of care if a system is working correctly?

You see my Liberal friends, government managed healthcare systems control the never ending increases in costs by limiting services, demanding lower pay for doctors and nurses which results in decline in such professions as they go where their services demand more pay and the Government won’t allow you to sue them.

People die every day for surgery that in this great nation they would have gotten immediate treatment for.

Do we need reform; you betchya. But the notion that the ONLY option is to allow the most incompetent and inefficient organizations on earth, our Governments, take them over defies common sense.

Folks, these are the people who have spent us into a $1.8 trillion hole without any idea how to pay for it and you want them to manage your health? You have GOT to be kidding me right? :roll:

As earlier stated, the efforts of NPR are to promote "liberal" agendas and distort the facts to fit their narrow and closed minded views about what "reform" constitutes.

The best definition of reform is to put or change into an improved form or condition, or to amend or improve by change of form or removal of faults or abuses and not to destroy it.
 
Why don't we do this. Those that want the current reform can so indicate on our income tax form, and we can accept a higher rate. We can also get all of the outcome of the system. So should we lose our job, be denied coverage, lose coverage, etc.. we will benefit. Along with the cost savings.

Those that oppose can simply mark on their income tax form they do not want this. So they will pay a lower rate. Except they or their family will never be able to take any benefits or coverage from the reform system. If medical bills become a burden, tough s**t. If they lose their jobs, tough s**t. If they are denied coverage, tough s**t. If your 65, go live with your kids, live on the street, or kill yourself, but don't come begging to Medicare.

Hell why stop there. We can do the same with that evil Socialist education system we call public education. Of course when our GDP drops because we do not have enough educated people, we are given the right to tax the s**t out of conservatives to make up for OUR losses in income growth. Oh, and they also can not bitch and moan when we bring in more educated immigrants from China, India, etc.. to make up for the loss in employment pool.

Silly Sam, don't you get it yet? This isn't about choice. Liberals aren't concerned with choice. Socialism does not include choice. Arrogant self described highly intellectual Liberals, perhaps like you, have the answers for ALL of us and they are the only ones ordained by the ignorant masses to confiscate our wealth and re-distribute it they way THEY know it will do the most good.....dontchyaknow.


Sorry but I am sick to death of listening to conservatives, most of whom who have sucked at the teat of big government their entire lives complain. Prime example; Phil Gramm the leader in conservative hypocrisy and stupidity. Like when I looked at those moron Tea-Bagger rallies and see that about 99% were of the lower economic classes, I just wanted to vomit at the sight of such stupidity. Well I suppose they could all just home school the kiddies, yeah right. Personally one has never come across my desk, but I can guarantee that we would NEVER even interview a home schooler.

You know what I get sick of; Liberals making farcical false hyperbolic claims about Conservatives in a vacuum of facts and reality.

Your comments typify the angry ranting mental state of Liberals who when their socialist agenda's get stymied even when they have majorities and can exclude their Conservative counterparts from the political process.

The above does however provide a great example of the angry arrogance that appears to be a genetic trait of Liberals however, but thank you for once again illustrating it in such a clear fashion.

:2wave:
 
The unfortunate truth about the American health care system is that it's almost entirely controlled by a for profit industry (insurance). No average American can easily cover the price tag of health care in America, and thus they rely on health insurance agencies who exert a lot of energy in finding ways to deny claims and coverage. Considering that the U.S. spends more per-capita on health care than any other nation on the planet, the populace shouldn't be experiencing such hassle in receiving care and I feel it's indicative of the fact that the U.S. system is no longer centered around providing care (if it ever was in the first place).

I keep hearing this same farcical claim over and over again, yet in reality I have never experienced any insurance company denying ANY claims that were legitimate and within the coverage they provided.

I am curious by this angry uninformed populist foolishness about making a profit as if it was a BAD thing. How the hell do you think your employer pays you a paycheck?

Good lord, the education system in this nation is in worse shape than even I thought if this is what we are producing out there. But then when you see race baiting hate arrogant morons like Professor Gates out there in the teaching field, should anyone be surprised?
 
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