Drug czar: Feds won't support legalized pot

Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

CaptainCourtesy said:

. Yours reads like marijuana is fine and not addictive at all. Not true. Read Binary Digit's information. Same information as I've seen. Marijuana IS physically addictive in a minority of people, and DOES cause physical dependence in that same minority. Providing erroneous information about that, is just as bad as telling people that if you smoke marijuana you WILL become addicted.

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And here I was trying to make sure when I posted not to deny that there is such a thing as marijuana addiction.

To the best of my knowledge (and I have done a lot of research on the subject, as well as personal experience and anecdotal) I have seen no evidence either through study, or experience that shows a physical dependence. I do not think this is erroneous information at all, although I will concede that a physical dependence has neither been substantiated, nor disqualified.

Believe me, I have no intentions of spreading erroneous information, there is way too much on both sides of this issue, and it does undermine the debate. I I do strive to keep as factually based as possible. Perhaps I did not frame my reply as well as I could have if you got the impression that i was saying it was not addictive at all.

My intention was to differentiate between physical addiction and the psychological addiction as a counterpoint to the "ohh my god we are going to be a nation full of junkies" aspect of the post that I was replying to. I made no claims that there is no such thing as addiction to marijuana.

What addiction there is to marijuana is a weak addiction, one that will not foster an immense craving, one that can easily be broken. Despite the broad clinical definition of addiction. What research has been done has yet to demonstrate a physical chemical dependence (exo-chemical dependence so you do not parse this). If there is conclusive research on this, I have yet to see it, and I am sure it would be very quickly propagated and widely publicized if there were conclusive studies showing a physical dependence.

Captain Courtesy said:

And as far as addictions such as sex, video games, gambling, etc... we already know that brain scans of these folks are similar to those of folks who are addicted to substances...as opposed to those who are not. The biology of addiction lends itself to the medical model and to the physical addiction concept, even when it seems as if this should not be the case.

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I knew you were going to say something along the lines of brain chemistry changing with psychological addictions. These people also on occasion get mild physical manifestations (irritability, anxiety, restlessness) when severed from their psychological addictions as well don't they? :lol:


GI problems? multiple cases, or isolated? this is a new one to me.

Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

Ultimately, the medical pluses of pot don't out-weigh the negatives.

I mean, hey, maggots have medicinal qualities, but do we really want to use them?

Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

apdst said:

Ultimately, the medical pluses of pot don't out-weigh the negatives.

I mean, hey, maggots have medicinal qualities, but do we really want to use them?

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Care to elaborate so that we can actually have something to use that would actually further the discussion?

I would venture to say that chemo-addled person who is actually able to keep food down after a bit of marijuana has an entirely different opinion.

Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

Moderator's Warning:

Stay on topic please and cease with the personal attacks.

Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

marduc said:

And here I was trying to make sure when I posted not to deny that there is such a thing as marijuana addiction.

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I could see that you were really trying to do that, and I respect that. It always irritates me when people will tell others, especially young people that any substance they use will lead them to be a homeless failure, laying in the gutter. Plenty of people use a variety of substances responsibly, with no major ill effects. But the same goes the opposite way. Marijuana is not a harmless drug.

To the best of my knowledge (and I have done a lot of research on the subject, as well as personal experience and anecdotal) I have seen no evidence either through study, or experience that shows a physical dependence. I do not think this is erroneous information at all, although I will concede that a physical dependence has neither been substantiated, nor disqualified.

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I have done both research and have anecdotal evidence that demonstrates that it can be physically addictive, depending on use and the person.

Believe me, I have no intentions of spreading erroneous information, there is way too much on both sides of this issue, and it does undermine the debate. I I do strive to keep as factually based as possible. Perhaps I did not frame my reply as well as I could have if you got the impression that i was saying it was not addictive at all.

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I agree. Far too much erroneous information, mostly based on political agendas.

My intention was to differentiate between physical addiction and the psychological addiction as a counterpoint to the "ohh my god we are going to be a nation full of junkies" aspect of the post that I was replying to. I made no claims that there is no such thing as addiction to marijuana.

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If marijuana was legalized, we would not become a nation full of junkies. A small percentage of people who did not use, would. A small percentage of people who used minimally, would extend their use into addiction. Accent on the word "small". And there is a difference between psychological addiction and physical addiction, though in my experience, both are usually present.

What addiction there is to marijuana is a weak addiction, one that will not foster an immense craving, one that can easily be broken. Despite the broad clinical definition of addiction. What research has been done has yet to demonstrate a physical chemical dependence (exo-chemical dependence so you do not parse this). If there is conclusive research on this, I have yet to see it, and I am sure it would be very quickly propagated and widely publicized if there were conclusive studies showing a physical dependence.

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The addictive qualities of marijuana ARE weaker than that of alcohol, nicotine, and opiates. Has to do with the chemicals that are bound by it. That does not negate that there is a physical addiction, one that has been documented. Withdrawal symptoms do happen. Do they happen to everyone? No. But they happen.

I knew you were going to say something along the lines of brain chemistry changing with psychological addictions. These people also on occasion get mild physical manifestations (irritability, anxiety, restlessness) when severed from their psychological addictions as well don't they? :lol:

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Sure. But there is a difference. The restlessness and sleeplessness caused by anxiety is different than that caused by physical withdrawal. Remember something. Addiction triggers and overstimulates certain brain/body chemicals. This lack of induced stimulation is seen in people addicted. This is part of the physical addiction.

GI problems? multiple cases, or isolated? this is a new one to me.

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Multiple.

Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

apdst said:

Ultimately, the medical pluses of pot don't out-weigh the negatives.

I mean, hey, maggots have medicinal qualities, but do we really want to use them?

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We do want to use them....and use them with some regularity in fact.

Medical Maggots Treat As They Eat

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/magazine/11ideas_section2-14.html

Maggot Therapy: How to Find a Doctor Who Will Prescribe Maggots - Thinking Harder (usnews.com)

Insurance may soon cover maggot therapy - Health care- msnbc.com

Medical Maggots Cure Infections and Clean Wounds | HealthMad

Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

CaptainCourtesy said:

Marijuana IS physically addictive in a minority of people, and DOES cause physical dependence in that same minority.

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So does caffeine. So does watching TV.

*anything* abused can be toxic and can lead to physical dependence.

This is simply another example of a President who promised 'change' maintain the status quo. He's doing quite a lot of that, unsurprisingly.

A shame.

-NC

Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

vauge said:

So does caffeine. So does watching TV.

*anything* abused can be toxic and can lead to physical dependence.

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You are correct.

Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

CaptainCourtesy said:

You are correct.

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So then that begs to question, should something that is addictive be illegal?

I mean in the gaming world MMORPG like World of Warcraft and Everquest could be considered addictive and there are many cases where it does lead to an addiction that terribly destroys a life.

That doesn't mean it should be illegal though.

There is a difference between abuse and using.

I know several people that use Marijuana recreational on the weekends, and that doesn't interrupt their 100k+ a year jobs they hold.

However, I know some it does. I also know people that drink alchool and do productively and then there are those that don't.

Do you lump everyone in a category just because some can't handle it? Well some people tried with alcohol. They failed and rightfully so. I happen to agree that they are doing the same thing now with people that use marijuana.

They say Marijuana is a gateway drug. No ****, if you are going to buy an illegal drug, chances are you are going to buy another illegal drug.

You could have said the same thing about Alcohol during prohibition.

Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

TheNextEra said:

So then that begs to question, should something that is addictive be illegal?

I mean in the gaming world MMORPG like World of Warcraft and Everquest could be considered addictive and there are many cases where it does lead to an addiction that terribly destroys a life.

That doesn't mean it should be illegal though.

There is a difference between abuse and using.

I know several people that use Marijuana recreational on the weekends, and that doesn't interrupt their 100k+ a year jobs they hold.

However, I know some it does. I also know people that drink alchool and do productively and then there are those that don't.

Do you lump everyone in a category just because some can't handle it? Well some people tried with alcohol. They failed and rightfully so. I happen to agree that they are doing the same thing now with people that use marijuana.

They say Marijuana is a gateway drug. No ****, if you are going to buy an illegal drug, chances are you are going to buy another illegal drug.

You could have said the same thing about Alcohol during prohibition.

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Tell you what, TheNextEra, somewhere in this thread I posted my position on the illegality of marijuana. Find it and then ask yourself how pertinent to my position the above post is.

Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

CaptainCourtesy said:

You were fortunate. You may not have been addicted. I know quite a few who were and who DID have physical withdrawal symptoms. Those symptoms included difficulty sleeping, GI irritation, headaches, and irritability.

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After 25 years of frequent, daily usage, I suddenly stopped. Cold turkey, as they say. The new experience of "sobriety," if you will, was like a high unto itself. I rather enjoyed it. New energy. More productivity. The only "withdrawal" of a negative sense I noted was that for the first week or so, I started dreaming again. And the dreams were not always pleasant. Some were, some weren't. But other than that, no withdrawal symptoms were present.

That's just me.

Well we went to a party last night and got drunk and karaoked. Nobody drove home drunk or killed anyone. Nobody got into any fights. Everyone had a great time, got some stress out, and just had fun. Then they all went home and did their thing. No harm done.

Personal responsibility in action.

Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

apdst said:

That's the part that blows me away. The folks that are the strongest supporters of legal weed are the same folks who are the strongest opponents of fast food, soft drinks and cigarettes.

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ROFL. My VO2 max is technically off the charts. My friend who smokes cigs daily cannot run a 5 minute mile to save his life.

What makes cigarettes so damaging is the inorganic phosphate fertilizers that compound throughout decades of use. They are essentially radioactive, and so is the soil now used to grow the tobacco.

Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

Goldenboy219 said:

ROFL. My VO2 max is technically off the charts. My friend who smokes cigs daily cannot run a 5 minute mile to save his life.

What makes cigarettes so damaging is the inorganic phosphate fertilizers that compound throughout decades of use. They are essentially radioactive, and so is the soil now used to grow the tobacco.

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Now lets see who stands a better chance of rescuing a lame innocent person from a house fire. The person with custom lungs or one with fresh new ones.

The Drug Czar is either misinformed, ignorant or plain out lying through his teeth. Marijuana does indeed have medical uses, actually in hospitals many nurses and doctors suggest giving out marijuana to Cancer out patients as a way to deal with Pain and psychological issues. What a disgusting thing the racist Rockerfella laws did to our culture. While Drinking and driving is a majour killer, while Cancer spreads because of Cigarets, some how pot is the most dangerous substance man has ever heard of. Get of the Prozax and Viagras dick will you.

All this talk of cupcakes is bringing back the pains of my physical dependence. Damn you Hostess and your creamy marshellow fillings!

:sigh: I really just did go buy cupcakes from the snack machine at work. I need help.

scourge99 said:

All this talk of cupcakes is bringing back the pains of my physical dependence. Damn you Hostess and your creamy marshellow fillings!

:sigh: I really just did go buy cupcakes from the snack machine at work. I need help.

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What, got a case of the munchies?

Damned evil pot ...

Coronado said:

What, got a case of the munchies?

Damned evil pot ...

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I'm thinking not. Hostess machines at work and being stoned usually don't mesh well. If he was stoned he would have gotten a bag of Doritos for sure.

dirtpoorchris said:

I'm thinking not. Hostess machines at work and being stoned usually don't mesh well. If he was stoned he would have gotten a bag of Doritos for sure.

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Ah, right. Good call on the Doritos.

I once worked at a place where the owner kept a bottle of Grey Goose in the break room freezer. Showing up to work in an altered state was never really much of a concern for us ...

Coronado said:

What, got a case of the munchies?

Damned evil pot ...

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No, its my physical addiction to cupcakes. Sweaty palms, anxiety, preoccupied thoughts.

I can't smoke pot in my line of work. I get hooked up to lie detector tests every half decade or so and reporting substance use is required. That means the only way I can smoke pot is if I report it. The catch-22 is that smoking pot and then reporting it could get me fired.

scourge99 said:

No, its my physical addiction to cupcakes. Sweaty palms, anxiety, preoccupied thoughts.

I can't smoke pot in my line of work. I get hooked up to lie detector tests every half decade or so and reporting substance use is required. That means the only way I can smoke pot is if I report it. The catch-22 is that smoking pot and then reporting it could get me fired.

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They drug test engineers? Are they afraid you're going to get high and start designing weird things or something?

That **** amuses me sometimes. I mean, I can appreciate the desire for a drug-free workplace, but seriously ...

Another broken promise from the pompous arrogant jack-ass in the White House. No surprise.

Coronado said:

They drug test engineers? Are they afraid you're going to get high and start designing weird things or something?

That **** amuses me sometimes. I mean, I can appreciate the desire for a drug-free workplace, but seriously ...

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One engineers folly may be 100's of peoples deaths. Especially if they somehow **** up a design or **** up an inspection on a giant reactor in a refinery or something.