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Obama Defends Criticism of Cambridge Police in Arrest of Gates

Re: Obama Surprised by Controversy Over Remark About Arrest of Black Scholar

You have a point that had Gates acted more like an adult, everything would be fine and dandy. But I also have to consider that the officer could have just as easily been an adult and walked away. Gates should have controlled his temper, the officer should have walked away, and Obama should have just punted the question.

There's no question that had those involved acted differently, we wouldn't be here discussing this nonsense :doh
 
Just because a case was dropped does not mean there was no legal basis for the arrest. It means the DA declined to pursue prosecution--which is entirely his call to make.

The only way you can conclude the officer was in the wrong was if you ignore everything except Gates' version of events. In the other recitations of events I have seen, the officer was amply justified in arresting Gates for disturbing the peace.

Not the case at all. This wasn't just the prosecutor deciding to decline, the department issued a statement publicly acknowledging their missteps in this case.

The elements of the crime that Gates was charged with were not met. The Massachusetts statute is quite clear that the offender has to have the purpose of alarming the public in order to be guilty of disorderly conduct (as it applies in this case based upon the officers report). That was not proven in this incident. The report was bush league. He tried to use a couple of catch phrases to satisfy the charge and it fell flat.

If there was more to this case then the officer should have done a better job of documenting it. If you are going to charge a guy with tumultuous behavior that alarmed a group of citizens you had better damn well get one of the citizens to say they were alarmed, otherwise....0.
 
Re: Obama Surprised by Controversy Over Remark About Arrest of Black Scholar

Did Gates's behavior absolutely require that he be taken into custody? No, but anybody with half a brain knows you don't follow a cop outside (especially one that is in the process of leaving) while screaming and calling him/her names. Further, anyone with a modicum of self-respect and maturity doesn't resort to playing the race card when faced with the consequences of their moronic behavior. This was not a case of racial profiling. If Gates felt that the officer's actions were inappropriate, he should have dealt with it as an adult rather than disturbing his neighbors by throwing a public tantrum.


The officer invited Gates to follow him out of the house if he wanted to continue speaking with him. The officer could have simply done the wise thing and leave. His business was done. Gates may be a loud mouthed asshole, but he didn't break any law.

I hope the day doesn't come where we actually start arresting people out of their homes for saying things we don't like.
 
Re: Obama Surprised by Controversy Over Remark About Arrest of Black Scholar

The officer invited Gates to follow him out of the house if he wanted to continue speaking with him. The officer could have simply done the wise thing and leave. His business was done. Gates may be a loud mouthed asshole, but he didn't break any law.

I hope the day doesn't come where we actually start arresting people out of their homes for saying things we don't like.

I share that hope as well, and agree that the best course of action on both sides would have been to walk away/keep their mouths shut.
 
Re: Obama Surprised by Controversy Over Remark About Arrest of Black Scholar

Yelling that the cop is a racist out in public does.
No it does not. Not in and of itself. There have to be more factors present, and that is the problem with this case. They aren't there. Committing the act "in public" is not the same as alarming or annoying "the public."
My bad dude, I forgot that you're an expert on the ins and outs of MA disorderly conduct laws.

What was I thinking, daring to point out that you don't seem to know what the **** you're talking about. I mean, you said it plain and simple - the cop is wrong.
The officer never provided evidence that there was a victim in the case. MA law is quite clear that the offender must, with purpose, engage in conduct that is a nuisance, annoyance, or alarms the public. The public does not include on duty police officers. The public includes everyone else. There is no victim in this case. Just the officers observation, which is only relevant if you have an actual member of the public making a complaint against Gates.

The officer saying the onlookers "appeared alarmed" is not evidence that they were actually alarmed. No member of the public made an actual complaint. No victim, no crime.

The officer should know the elements of the crime if he's going to arrest somebody for committing that crime. Had someone come up to the cops and said "that guy is really creating a problem, can you please calm him down?" Then you have your crime. But that didn't happen.

It's very similar to a cop here or in many other states going by a house and hearing a loud stereo. That loud stereo could constitute a peace disturbance, but sans a complaint from a member of the public, the officer can't cite the offending party because a police officers peace cannot be disturbed while he is on duty. No victim, no crime.

On duty cops are in almost all cases not considered part of "the public."
 
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Re: Obama Surprised by Controversy Over Remark About Arrest of Black Scholar

I share that hope as well, and agree that the best course of action on both sides would have been to walk away/keep their mouths shut.

Thank you, hitting the button is simply not sufficient.

Acting like grownups is contagious.

:mrgreen:
 
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Re: Obama Surprised by Controversy Over Remark About Arrest of Black Scholar

Looks like Obama got separated from his teleprompter, which would have told him to make no comment, but as they were separated, O's old jerk of the knee reaction was to pull out the race card from the bottom of the deck once again.

It's plain to see you can take Obama away from Rev. Wright but you can't take Rev. Wright out of Obama.

I guess O believes the power of the presidency will protect him and make the common man crumble.

Foolish is as foolish does.

Hats off the the officer for holding his ground, and his colleagues that are setting the record straight about this man's character.

It's high time Obama admit HIS remarks were stupid, he was badly infomed and apologize profusely.

.
 
It seems a bit of a stretch to arrest someone for disorderly conduct in their own home when that person exercises a legal right to verify the badge number of the police officer. Even if Gates was "uppity" about it, there is no law against being a jerk, since that right is protected by the 1st Amendment, especially in the privacy of one's own home.

The presented facts are that when Gates let the police into his home, he did show them a couple of ID cards, license and Harvard ID (he lives in a Harvard house). Case closed. Unless there was a physical assault by Gates there would have been zero reason to arrest him. The case was fully dropped because it had no legal basis to proceed. That is the fact of the matter. Therefore the police officer acted stupidly, by definition, since he had no just cause for arrest.

Okay, Mr. Omniscient. Whether Gates should have been arrested was debatable. I didn't read the police report and think, "No way should he have been arrested." I thought that the police officer could have walked away. Gates isn't a danger to society. He is a law-abiding citizen. Maybe Caine has already commented on this (our resident police officer), but charges get dropped all the time that have a legal basis. The police just CHOOSE to drop the charges because the facts aren't solid. This in no way means that there was "zero reason to arrest him." But you keep asserting your know-it-all facts. :roll:
 
Why Obama keeps commenting on a case where he doesn't fully understand the facts is beyond me. I saw a small interview with the police officer who arrested Gates. He pointed out he didn't vote for Obama (which I thought was dumb and looked defensive on his part), but I liked it when he said the President was commenting on local issues not knowing all the facts. That is how I feel. Based on listening to Obama alone, he makes it seem as though Gates was arrested in relation to breaking into his own place. STFU, Obama.
 
They did? :confused:

I'm with you. I see the police officer's boss backing him up.

However, Deval Patrick (governor of Massachusetts) called poor wittle Gates to tell him how sowwy he was that this had happened to him.

Jesus Christ--like Gates didn't do anything wrong here. :roll:
 
And the parts about him saying he didn't actually know the facts of the situation, or that his own Secret Service would shoot him outside the White House because he's black?
In other news, a black man named Obama was informed by Secret Service agents that drivers sit up front. The agents were brandishing their pistols as they motioned the man to get out of the rear of the limosine. Sgt Crowley had this to say about the situation, "It's a dangerous world out there, people have to know their place."

:rofl:spin:
 
Re: Obama Surprised by Controversy Over Remark About Arrest of Black Scholar

Looks like Obama got separated from his teleprompter, which would have told him to make no comment, but as they were separated, O's old jerk of the knee reaction was to pull out the race card from the bottom of the deck once again.

It's plain to see you can take Obama away from Rev. Wright but you can't take Rev. Wright out of Obama.

I guess O believes the power of the presidency will protect him and make the common man crumble.

Foolish is as foolish does.

Hats off the the officer for holding his ground, and his colleagues that are setting the record straight about this man's character.

It's high time Obama admit HIS remarks were stupid, he was badly infomed and apologize profusely.

.

Obama spoke for an hour without teleprompters, answering questions on health care that would have baffled George Bush. In responding to the question about Gates, Obama rose to the defense of a friend. He lost his cool. It was a mistake for him to make a judgement.
 
Re: Obama Surprised by Controversy Over Remark About Arrest of Black Scholar

Obama spoke for an hour without teleprompters, answering questions on health care that would have baffled George Bush. In responding to the question about Gates, Obama rose to the defense of a friend. He lost his cool. It was a mistake for him to make a judgement.




He did use a teleprompter, are you always dishonest or do you just shoot from feelings?

the whole thing was scripted.


GOPUSA - The Loft
 
I'm with you. I see the police officer's boss backing him up.

However, Deval Patrick (governor of Massachusetts) called poor wittle Gates to tell him how sowwy he was that this had happened to him.

Jesus Christ--like Gates didn't do anything wrong here. :roll:




it's insane..... and pathetic.... this gates guy in my opinion, was looking for something like this all his life to make value his race baiting ways.... and fell short.
 
In other news, a black man named Obama was informed by Secret Service agents that drivers sit up front. The agents were brandishing their pistols as they motioned the man to get out of the rear of the limosine. Sgt Crowley had this to say about the situation, "It's a dangerous world out there, people have to know their place."

:rofl:spin:

And in other news, you are a bigot. Way to shoot your credibility on any subject to hell. Maybe stormfront forums would be better suited for you?
 
it's insane..... and pathetic.... this gates guy in my opinion, was looking for something like this all his life to make value his race baiting ways.... and fell short.

Oh, Gates is eating this up. We both know he falls short, but the nodding from black members of the audience I saw when they showed Gates on some talk show about how he was the victim of racism made me want to puke. Yes, racism occurs, but not in this instance.
 
Oh, Gates is eating this up. We both know he falls short, but the nodding from black members of the audience I saw when they showed Gates on some talk show about how he was the victim of racism made me want to puke. Yes, racism occurs, but not in this instance.



Actually it did, Gates saw a white cop and use that fact to cause a scene.
 
Re: Obama Surprised by Controversy Over Remark About Arrest of Black Scholar

Obama spoke for an hour without teleprompters, answering questions on health care that would have baffled George Bush. In responding to the question about Gates, Obama rose to the defense of a friend. He lost his cool. It was a mistake for him to make a judgement.

....and what did Obama come up with during his hour without teleprompters?

The President of the United States basically called our police officers "stupid".

:rofl
 
I'm with you. I see the police officer's boss backing him up.

However, Deval Patrick (governor of Massachusetts) called poor wittle Gates to tell him how sowwy he was that this had happened to him.

Jesus Christ--like Gates didn't do anything wrong here. :roll:

They did? :confused:

Harvard Scholar: 'I Would Like An Apology' .
'COOLER HEADS DID NOT PREVAIL'

In announcing that charges would be dropped Tuesday, police blamed both sides for escalating the conflict. "You had two human beings reacting to a set of circumstances and cooler heads did not prevail," said Cambridge police spokeswoman Kelly Downes.

"It was not Professor Gates' best moment and it was not the Cambridge Police Department's best moment."

"I think both parties were wrong. Our position is race did not play a factor."

JOINT STATEMENT

The city, the police department and Gates issued this joint statement just before noon:

"The City of Cambridge and the Cambridge Police Department have recommended to the Middlesex County District Attorney that the criminal charge against Professor Gates not proceed. Therefore, in the interests of justice, the Middlesex County District Attorney's Office has agreed to enter a nolle prosequi in this matter.

"The City of Cambridge, the Cambridge Police Department, and Professor Gates acknowledge that the incident of July 16, 2009 was regrettable and unfortunate. This incident should not be viewed as one that demeans the character and reputation of Professor Gates or the character of the Cambridge Police Department. All parties agree that this is a just resolution to an unfortunate set of circumstances."
 
You need to study the law.

irony.jpg


Seriously, I'll take Right's understanding of the law every minute of every day of every week over yours. Not only is it actually an informed and educated view of it but he's also routinely shown not to let his hyper partisan views blind him 99% of the time.
 
Re: Obama Surprised by Controversy Over Remark About Arrest of Black Scholar

:rofl:rofl:rofl

Yeah, I'm a real submissive kinda guy.....NOT.

I don't cower.....but I don't go full retard in a cop's face either. When dealing with the cops, I am a firm believer in exercising my right to remain silent. If Gates had done the same thing, he'd have avoided the nickel bracelet set.

The factors of the Gates case aside (for objective purposes only), this is actually sage advice.

Back to this case, while I don't believe Gates should have been arrested, I do believe his attitude was the dominant factor in escalating the clash of personalities. He should have shut his big mouth and not continued to bait the officer.
 
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Moderator's Warning:
Yes, another thread being de-railed and name calling ensues. Stay on topic, stop calling each other names and cease with the personal attacks.
 
Not the case at all. This wasn't just the prosecutor deciding to decline, the department issued a statement publicly acknowledging their missteps in this case.

Link? Because this is the public statement of the department of which I am aware:

The City of Cambridge and the Cambridge Police Department have recommended to the Middlesex County District Attorney that the criminal charge against Professor Gates not proceed. Therefore, in the interests of justice, the Middlesex County District Attorney’s Office has agreed to enter a nolle prosequi in this matter.

The City of Cambridge, the Cambridge Police Department, and Professor Gates acknowledge that the incident of July 16, 2009 was regrettable and unfortunate. This incident should not be viewed as one that demeans the character and reputation of Professor Gates or the character of the Cambridge Police Department. All parties agree that this is a just resolution to an unfortunate set of circumstances.
Where in that statement is there admission of mistake?

nolle prosequi is not an admission of mistake, merely a decision not to pursue the matter. Technically, the door is still open to pursuing the charges should the DA change his mind in the matter--granted, it's highly improbable, but it is not impossible.

nolle prosequi (Anglo-American law) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

When entered before trial, the nolle prosequi does not bar a subsequent prosecution on the basis of a new indictment or new information.
The elements of the crime that Gates was charged with were not met. The Massachusetts statute is quite clear that the offender has to have the purpose of alarming the public in order to be guilty of disorderly conduct (as it applies in this case based upon the officers report). That was not proven in this incident. The report was bush league. He tried to use a couple of catch phrases to satisfy the charge and it fell flat.
This is certainly not a case of shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, but a person standing outside shouting that a cop is a racist would be pretty damn alarming, I would think.

Would the case stand up at trial? Perhaps. If Gates had stood out on his front step for an extended period of time shouting racist accusations at Sgt Crowley, that would certainly be alarming to the public and would arguably be disturbing the peace.

However, the reality of the situation is that, for whatever reason, Gates lost his temper. If DAs prosecuted every person who lost their temper in public there would never be time to try rapists and murderers. Gates is not a frequent flyer at the county jail--he lost his cool. Even if he were technically guilty of disturbing the peace, how much good would be accomplished by taking the case to court? Crowley could have done everything right, including arresting Gates, and the proper response by the department and the DA could still be entering a nolle prosequi. Frankly, I don't see where Crowley did anything wrong.

If there was more to this case then the officer should have done a better job of documenting it. If you are going to charge a guy with tumultuous behavior that alarmed a group of citizens you had better damn well get one of the citizens to say they were alarmed, otherwise....0.
Neither you nor I were there, so how much more there is to the case is purely speculation for us. My speculation is that Crowley properly investigated a report of a break-in at Gates' residence, Gates' improperly lost his cool at being asked for his ID to show he lived in that residence--necessary for Crowley to establish that there had been no crime committed--and Gates went too far in expressing his displeasure. That much is speculation, I freely acknowledge.

However, this statement by Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert C. Haas to my mind suggests that my speculation is reasonably close to what those better informed agree took place:

Haas described Sergeant James M. Crowley as a “stellar member’’ of the department who had “tried to deescalate the situation’’ before he arrested Gates last week on the porch of Gates’s Cambridge house. Haas emphatically said that Gates’s arrest was not racially tinged.

“He [Crowley] tried to move away from the situation, and, when he wasn’t successful, he used arrest as a last resort,’’ Haas said at a packed news conference at police headquarters. “I do not believe his actions were in any way racially motivated.’’
If Crowley screwed up, why would Haas be going this far in taking up for him?
 
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