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FACT CHECK: Obama's health care claims adrift?

disneydude said:
What do you think the inalienable right to life means? (let me guess....you think it just means a definition adopted by anti-abortion groups, right?)
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Rights are things you INHERENTLY have, not things the government must GIVE you. More to the point, the rights enumerated in the constitution and declaration of independence are ones in which it states the government can not take away from or limit you on.

The government does not need to GIVE me anything for Freedom of Speech. If we used your idiotic logic the federal government should have to pay for my cell phone and internet connection to be assured that I am able to freely speek in all ways possible.

The government does not need to GIVE me anything for Freedom of Religion. If we used your idiotic logic the government should be providing me with transportation to and from church services so I do not have any issues attending.

The government does not need to GIVE me anything for the Right to Bare Arms. If we used your idiotic logic the government should be buying me guns, ammo, and paying for all the classes and liscenses they force me to buy.

The government does not need to GIVE me anyhing for liberty, nor the persuit of happiness. What they need to do is not take things away from me.

Your logic is flawed, worthless, and idiotic, but not most unsurprising of it all...hyper partisan. You hold it to a standard no other right that is bestowed upon us is needed.

The right to life means that every American has the right to LIVE and that the government can not simply take that away from you without justification. (strangely, this is actually where I part with conservatives and dislike strict laws against assisted suicide) The government can not kill or harm you if you have done nothing that sacrifices your rights. The government can not experiment on your health. You are free to LIVE without any government interferance upon your LIFE. THAT'S what the right to life is.

The government taking money from other peoples hands to give you something to help perhaps extend your life in exchange of them having further control OVER your life is far, far, far from the Right to Life and could be argued an infringement upon other peoples Right to Persue Happiness (again free of government intervening to stop that) since you seem to be wanting to say the "Life, Liberty, and Persuit of Happiness" line is indication of a governmentally protected right.
 
disneydude said:
Fact checking the so-called "Fact-Checkers"
Associated Press reporter Calvin Woodward has a history of straining to catch Barack Obama in factual errors. But today's review of last night's Obama press conference may have hit a new low in absurdity.


FAIR Blog Calvin Woodward
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You rip one biased article based on another biased article??? I guess as long as you agree with the bias, it's ok?
Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) is a tax-exempt "media watchdog" organization founded in 1986 by radical activist Jeff Cohen, who regards the Democratic Party as "right wing." FAIR's position, as summarized in a 2004 article co-authored by its senior analyst Steve Rendall and staffer Anna Kosseff, is that, contrary to the claims of conservatives, the mainstream media in America are biased to the right, not to the left....

FAIR's Advisory Board includes actors Edward Asner, John Cusack, Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon; journalists Ben Bagdikian, Barbara Ehrenreich, Susan Faludi, Katha Pollitt [of The Nation], and Studs Terkel; musician Jackson Browne [a supporter of the Sandinista dictatorship]; and feminists Eleanor Smeal and Gloria Steinem. Asner, Ehrenreich and Steinem are members of Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), which describes itself as "the principal U.S. affiliate of the Socialist International."
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http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7092

Yep, that's a great batch of bipartisan advisors.
 
disneydude said:
You get the point then.

That's why if you were following along, I indicated that I generally look to factcheck.org which in my opinion is a fairly accurate non-biased source.
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And yet you were compelled to post a comment and link to FAIR.

You're being dishonest.
 
Zyphlin said:
Rights are things you INHERENTLY have, not things the government must GIVE you. More to the point, the rights enumerated in the constitution and declaration of independence are ones in which it states the government can not take away from or limit you on.

The government does not need to GIVE me anything for Freedom of Speech. If we used your idiotic logic the federal government should have to pay for my cell phone and internet connection to be assured that I am able to freely speek in all ways possible.

The government does not need to GIVE me anything for Freedom of Religion. If we used your idiotic logic the government should be providing me with transportation to and from church services so I do not have any issues attending.

The government does not need to GIVE me anything for the Right to Bare Arms. If we used your idiotic logic the government should be buying me guns, ammo, and paying for all the classes and liscenses they force me to buy.

The government does not need to GIVE me anyhing for liberty, nor the persuit of happiness. What they need to do is not take things away from me.

Your logic is flawed, worthless, and idiotic, but not most unsurprising of it all...hyper partisan. You hold it to a standard no other right that is bestowed upon us is needed.

The right to life means that every American has the right to LIVE and that the government can not simply take that away from you without justification. (strangely, this is actually where I part with conservatives and dislike strict laws against assisted suicide) The government can not kill or harm you if you have done nothing that sacrifices your rights. The government can not experiment on your health. You are free to LIVE without any government interferance upon your LIFE. THAT'S what the right to life is.

The government taking money from other peoples hands to give you something to help perhaps extend your life in exchange of them having further control OVER your life is far, far, far from the Right to Life and could be argued an infringement upon other peoples Right to Persue Happiness (again free of government intervening to stop that) since you seem to be wanting to say the "Life, Liberty, and Persuit of Happiness" line is indication of a governmentally protected right.
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Equating the right to basic health care to cell phones and ammo is a stretch. Even you would have to admit that.

What is sad is that there was a time in this country where people actually cared about their neighbors. Now people have become so self-centered that it is all about how they can maximize things for themself.

I yearn for a return to the values that this country embraced at a simpler time when people had a sense of community and understanding of basic humanity.
 
Zyphlin said:
Rights are things you INHERENTLY have, not things the government must GIVE you. More to the point, the rights enumerated in the constitution and declaration of independence are ones in which it states the government can not take away from or limit you on.

The government does not need to GIVE me anything for Freedom of Speech. If we used your idiotic logic the federal government should have to pay for my cell phone and internet connection to be assured that I am able to freely speek in all ways possible.

The government does not need to GIVE me anything for Freedom of Religion. If we used your idiotic logic the government should be providing me with transportation to and from church services so I do not have any issues attending.

The government does not need to GIVE me anything for the Right to Bare Arms. If we used your idiotic logic the government should be buying me guns, ammo, and paying for all the classes and liscenses they force me to buy.

The government does not need to GIVE me anyhing for liberty, nor the persuit of happiness. What they need to do is not take things away from me.

Your logic is flawed, worthless, and idiotic, but not most unsurprising of it all...hyper partisan. You hold it to a standard no other right that is bestowed upon us is needed.

The right to life means that every American has the right to LIVE and that the government can not simply take that away from you without justification. (strangely, this is actually where I part with conservatives and dislike strict laws against assisted suicide) The government can not kill or harm you if you have done nothing that sacrifices your rights. The government can not experiment on your health. You are free to LIVE without any government interferance upon your LIFE. THAT'S what the right to life is.

The government taking money from other peoples hands to give you something to help perhaps extend your life in exchange of them having further control OVER your life is far, far, far from the Right to Life and could be argued an infringement upon other peoples Right to Persue Happiness (again free of government intervening to stop that) since you seem to be wanting to say the "Life, Liberty, and Persuit of Happiness" line is indication of a governmentally protected right.
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Great post although I'm pretty sure it will be lost on the intended target.


.
 
Gill said:
And yet you were compelled to post a comment and link to FAIR.

You're being dishonest.
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The point was....one fact check can fact check another....doesn't mean either of them are accurate. :doh

The only way to get honest fact checking is to do research yourself or go to a more reputable non-biased source.
 
disneydude said:
Equating the right to basic health care to cell phones and ammo is a stretch. Even you would have to admit that.
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No, I wouldn't.

Equating "The Right to Life" to "The Right to Free Speech" or "The Right to Bare Arms" is no stretch.

What is a STRETCH is equating "The Right to Life" to "The Right to Basic Healthcare". That is the stretch Disney.

My analogy was in no way a stretch, but instead clearly showing that no other right requires the government to GIVE you something for you to be able to enact that right...because that's not how rights work.

Rights are things you HAVE that the government isn't supposed to TAKE AWAy...they are not things that the government GIVE you.

You're the one stretching things.

What is sad is that there was a time in this country where people actually cared about their neighbors. Now people have become so self-centered that it is all about how they can maximize things for themself.
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:roll:

Utter and complete bull****.

Believing that the government shouldn't forcefully take something from me to give to someone else because of a variety of reasons, many of which are not "because its mine", is not in and of itself not caring about their neighbors. You're also basing this on specious anecdotal, ****ty evidence that doesn't take into account the grand look at things. How many of these people who say this have offered help in a variety of ways to neighbors? Done volunteer work? Done Charity? Indeed, is it truly "Caring" about your neighbors when you're essentially not even given a CHOICE but simply told "We're taking this from you"?

Get off the emotional trap, you're having a hard enough time generally debating legitiamte points here let alone emotional bull**** which is a weak debaters refuge from facts and logic.

I yearn for a return to the values that this country embraced at a simpler time when people had a sense of community and understanding of basic humanity.
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Let me steal a line from you...Cafeteria Value's it appears.

What about the values this country was founded on about self responsability? What about the value this country was founded on about freedom from government tyranny in the form of excessive taxation. What about the the values of the free market?

Yeah, thanks for showing what a joke you are on this topic Disney. You've got nothing. Illogical worthless arguments, emotionally charged bull****, and hyper partisan "If you don't agree with our plan exactly you hate your community" dribble. You may as well go make a youtube video screaming at us all because you've got the credibility of TOT.
 
Zyphlin said:
No, I wouldn't.

Equating "The Right to Life" to "The Right to Free Speech" or "The Right to Bare Arms" is no stretch.

What is a STRETCH is equating "The Right to Life" to "The Right to Basic Healthcare". That is the stretch Disney.

My analogy was in no way a stretch, but instead clearly showing that no other right requires the government to GIVE you something for you to be able to enact that right...because that's not how rights work.

Rights are things you HAVE that the government isn't supposed to TAKE AWAy...they are not things that the government GIVE you.

You're the one stretching things.



:roll:

Utter and complete bull****.

Believing that the government shouldn't forcefully take something from me to give to someone else because of a variety of reasons, many of which are not "because its mine", is not in and of itself not caring about their neighbors. You're also basing this on specious anecdotal, ****ty evidence that doesn't take into account the grand look at things. How many of these people who say this have offered help in a variety of ways to neighbors? Done volunteer work? Done Charity? Indeed, is it truly "Caring" about your neighbors when you're essentially not even given a CHOICE but simply told "We're taking this from you"?

Get off the emotional trap, you're having a hard enough time generally debating legitiamte points here let alone emotional bull**** which is a weak debaters refuge from facts and logic.



Let me steal a line from you...Cafeteria Value's it appears.

What about the values this country was founded on about self responsability? What about the value this country was founded on about freedom from government tyranny in the form of excessive taxation. What about the the values of the free market?

Yeah, thanks for showing what a joke you are on this topic Disney. You've got nothing. Illogical worthless arguments, emotionally charged bull****, and hyper partisan "If you don't agree with our plan exactly you hate your community" dribble. You may as well go make a youtube video screaming at us all because you've got the credibility of TOT.
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So under your logic, nothing should be taken from citizens and the government shouldn't provide anything. Am I understanding you correctly?

We should all take what is our god given right to have and rely on people's charity to provide all governmental services?

Or do you agree that there are at least some basic services that government should provide?

BTW....if you look at our posts....I'm not the one sounding like TOT
 
FreeTh!nk3r said:
Actually once again you are WRONG. What is the amount that will be subsidized by the feds for the public option? Ill wait.
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What will happen if the public option fails to compete and runs up loads of losses? Who covers those losses?
 
disneydude said:
So under your logic, nothing should be taken from citizens and the government shouldn't provide anything. Am I understanding you correctly?
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Ahh, so begins the floundering and attempts to reach for extremes.

No, under my logic, and you know the logic of those that wrote the things you're quoting, RIGHTS are things that INDIVIDUALS have not something governments bestow. They are stated in these documents as things the government can't TAKE AWAY from us.

No other RIGHT requires the government to GIVE us things, so to attempt to say the government must GIVE us health care for us to have a Right to Life is ridiculous, asinine, illogical, and wrong.

We should all take what is our god given right to have and rely on people's charity to provide all governmental services?
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Nope, there are that are simply need to be done at a governmental level. The military for one. Interstate roadways are another. It can go on and on.

Now, I am not one of those conservatives that think we should have absolutely zero SOCIAL services given by the government, though my belief is more for things that educate and provide incentives for getting back on yoru feet rather than just give money. That said, I don't personally see a need or a reason why the government should be providing health care for everyone.

Regardless of my personal thought about this, I'm not truly dealing with that thought. I'm dealing with facts, and you're idiotic original statement and implication that you're running from like someone fleeing a forest fire. Regardless of whether or not you think the government should be providing health care, claiming they need to do so because people have a RIGHT to health care....especially by claiming it comes from the Right to Life....is idiotic, illogical, and asinine as it runs counter to every single right defined for us in our founding documents and the entire notion of the way those rights are designed; as rights we HAVE that the government can't TAKE AWAY, not as rights the government must GIVE us things to have.
 
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disneydude said:
So you only have as much of a right to life as you can afford? Doesn't sound inalienable to me.
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So life is just healthcare and trips to the doctor? Doesn't sound like you have much of a life--or much of an argument here. Try again.
 
disneydude said:
Fact checking the so-called "Fact-Checkers"
Associated Press reporter Calvin Woodward has a history of straining to catch Barack Obama in factual errors. But today's review of last night's Obama press conference may have hit a new low in absurdity.


FAIR Blog Calvin Woodward
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Yes, Dis, keep wallowing in denial of our lying leader! For every fact that Obama and company exaggerate to cover other lies (i.e. projected healthcare-generated deficits), there are other pure lies (i.e. Republicans' response) that he gets away with only because he has such a scripted "press conference" (more like an infomercial... the reporters in unison respond "yes, we can" on Obama's cue).

I think that the actual low point of the evening was when Obama chose to proliferate racial hatred towards a police officer who not only has an impeccable record in race relations, but, by all legitimate accounts, appears to have done exactly the right thing in the face of a race-baiting professor! What a leader! It looks like he plans to bring our races together in the same manner that he plans to be bipartisan in politics.
 
FreeTh!nk3r said:
So why are you objecting to the public option again? Certainly more Americans will be able to afford it as it is projected to be 30-40% cheaper than current private rates.
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Don't you get it... it's in the bill! The public option is designed to limit or destroy the private option over time! Keep denying it, but it's there in the bill.
 
disneydude said:
What is sad is that there was a time in this country where people actually cared about their neighbors. Now people have become so self-centered that it is all about how they can maximize things for themself.

I yearn for a return to the values that this country embraced at a simpler time when people had a sense of community and understanding of basic humanity.
Click to expand...

I do to. That's why I prefer the federal government remain small and as innocuous and uninvolved in our lives as possible.
 
disneydude said:
What is sad is that there was a time in this country where people actually cared about their neighbors. Now people have become so self-centered that it is all about how they can maximize things for themself.
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Question: How many people have you paid the rent for?

Question: How many people have you paid medical bills for?

Question: How many people have you bought groceries for?

Question: How many people have you bought cars for?

Question: What good have you done for another fellow human being?
 
disneydude said:
Fact checking the so-called "Fact-Checkers"
Associated Press reporter Calvin Woodward has a history of straining to catch Barack Obama in factual errors. But today's review of last night's Obama press conference may have hit a new low in absurdity.


FAIR Blog Calvin Woodward
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I'm very sorry, but you FAIL. You can't have it both ways. For 8 years you blamed Bush for everything imaginable, then it's Obama inherited everything, and what he didn't inherit we need to blame Congress for. Liberals cast the die on this bull**** about the budget being Bush's fault....now YOU'RE going to live with it. And don't worry, we'll be right here to help you remember. :mrgreen:
 
celticlord said:
My Way News - FACT CHECK: Obama's health care claims adrift?

Nice summary of Dear Leader's lies in tonight's press conference.
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This one is my favorite Obama lie:

OBAMA: "I have also pledged that health insurance reform will not add to our deficit over the next decade, and I mean it."

So let me understand this new Obamamath; you are going to expand health services to over 45 million uninsured including illegal aliens, and the costs will all be born by SAVINGS and 1.5% of the American population?

Good lord, this moron even went as far as to say the savings would be so great that some of the savings could be used to pay down the CURRENT deficit.

The more I see of this President, the more I am convinced that his far from a clever politician, but more an intellectual idiot who actually believes the BS that erupts from his mouth.

We are currently spending $100 MILLION per day on interest on the debt and this does not include the new deficits being ramped up by these Democrat morons infesting the congress and White House; and they are claiming that by having Government take over ¼ of the American economy the savings will be so great they will pay down the deficit. You cannot fabricate the level of lunacy it takes to be these people. :roll:
 
disneydude said:
Its kinda ironic that your signature contains a phrase from the declaration of Independence, namely that we are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights, one of which is the right to LIFE.....and yet, you don't believe that basic healthcare is a right.

What do you think the inalienable right to life means? (let me guess....you think it just means a definition adopted by anti-abortion groups, right?)
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It takes quite a stretch of credulity to claim that the Constitution contains language that suggests that citizens have a RIGHT to Government managed healthcare; it begs the question, "you're kidding me right?"

Good lord, next we will be suing the Government for not preventing our deaths because the Constitution states we have a right to life. :rofl
 
disneydude said:
What is sad is that there was a time in this country where people actually cared about their neighbors. Now people have become so self-centered that it is all about how they can maximize things for themself.
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How is it that your logic suggests that if we do not agree and support Government managed healthcare, we don't actually care about our neighbors any longer? How disingenuous and a pile of nonsensical rhetorical bile.

Perhaps in those of us who think the Government is the single WORST entity to do anything OTHER than administer laws and defend the nation the REAL issue is that we CARE more than you do which is why we are trying to prevent this disaster from actually happening?

One thing is certain; this is not a debate about "overhauling" the healthcare system; that is a lie. This is about a TAKE OVER by the Government.

One only need to look at the disaster known as Medicare to see how bad things will get and what a financial disaster this can become.
 
disneydude said:
What is sad is that there was a time in this country where people actually cared about their neighbors. Now people have become so self-centered that it is all about how they can maximize things for themself.

I yearn for a return to the values that this country embraced at a simpler time when people had a sense of community and understanding of basic humanity.
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Yeah, 'coz there was universal health care then.

:rofl

Traditional lefty whine: "If you don't agree with me, and if you don't think the government should do this, why, you're just a big MEANY-HEAD!!!"
 
disneydude said:
Its kinda ironic that your signature contains a phrase from the declaration of Independence, namely that we are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights, one of which is the right to LIFE.....and yet, you don't believe that basic healthcare is a right.
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When will you people learn?
Having the right to somethng does not equate to being able to exercise that right for free.
 
Truth Detector said:
We are currently spending $100 MILLION per day on interest on the debt and this does not include the new deficits being ramped up by these Democrat morons infesting the congress and White House
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And who are we primarily paying these interest payments to, meaning who gets most of this money?
 
Harshaw said:
Yeah, 'coz there was universal health care then.

:rofl

Traditional lefty whine: "If you don't agree with me, and if you don't think the government should do this, why, you're just a big MEANY-HEAD!!!"
Click to expand...

This is a :funny ..... and so true. :rofl
 
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