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Venezuela 'fuelling drugs trade'

stekim said:
No. Only because I do not use meth!
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That is why you are still able to make coherent thought. If you used Meth, then you would begin to have holes burn into the Dura Mater of your brain, and then the brain itself, until it was nothing more than a glob. Alcohol may make you feel as if your brain is a glob, but the effects are by far different. Also, once a person has done meth a couple of times they are an addict. I know because I have known people who have gotten on the stuff, and within a month, they look like Gollum from Lord of the Rings, and act like him to.
 
tlmorg02 said:
That is why you are still able to make coherent thought. If you used Meth, then you would begin to have holes burn into the Dura Mater of your brain, and then the brain itself, until it was nothing more than a glob.
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Well, it's my brain! I will do with it as I please. Not sure how it's any of your concern.

Alcohol may make you feel as if your brain is a glob, but the effects are by far different. Also, once a person has done meth a couple of times they are an addict. I know because I have known people who have gotten on the stuff, and within a month, they look like Gollum from Lord of the Rings, and act like him to.
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Sucks to be them. None of my business.
 
stekim said:
Well, it's my brain! I will do with it as I please. Not sure how it's any of your concern.



Sucks to be them. None of my business.
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It is our business because legal drugs are much more available to children than those that are illegal. How often do kids smoke, or sneak into the liquor cabinet. If the parents are hooked on the substance, then the children of such losers will be more apt to become hooked as well. That is societies business.
 
tlmorg02 said:
It is our business because legal drugs are much more available to children than those that are illegal.
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Not in my experience. When I was in high school pot and coke were FAR easier to get than beer. Although you could get that, too. People were actually afraid to buy beer for you. But no drug dealer cared. So I don't think your position is true.

How often do kids smoke, or sneak into the liquor cabinet. If the parents are hooked on the substance, then the children of such losers will be more apt to become hooked as well. That is societies business.
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If you hook your kid on beer or prescription drugs it's illegal. Same would go for anything else.
 
stekim said:
Not in my experience. When I was in high school pot and coke were FAR easier to get than beer. Although you could get that, too. People were actually afraid to buy beer for you. But no drug dealer cared. So I don't think your position is true.



If you hook your kid on beer or prescription drugs it's illegal. Same would go for anything else.
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Yes, but the point is the damage done from meth use is 100x worse than that from smoking cigarettes, pot, or alcohol. So by the time anyone finds out that the child is using, the damage is done.
 
tlmorg02 said:
Yes, but the point is the damage done from meth use is 100x worse than that from smoking cigarettes, pot, or alcohol. So by the time anyone finds out that the child is using, the damage is done.
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Kids all over America are on meth. And next to none, I'm guessing, got the meth from mom and dad. So I don't see how legal or illegal even comes into play here. If kids want meth they can and will get meth. And it's EASIER to get meth in particular if its illegal! Because while most parents drink, next to none would use meth. So they would not have the easy access they do now. Legitimate stores don't sell drugs to kids. Dealers do. That's why we have a meth problem!
 
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tlmorg02 said:
No, and I understand your point, but heroine and meth use cause rapid deterioration of the body. Also, alcohol production is strictly controlled, whereas anyone can produce meth in their home.
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Alcohol production is strictly controlled because it is legal.

I don't know the particulars of making meth, but they use hazmat teams to clean up after the labs. No such precautions are necessary for cleaning up from making your own alcohol. I strongly suspect that making alcohol is substantially simpler than making meth. Bathtub gin was quite popular for a time iirc.
So I don't think that part of your argument holds water.

The bit about the deterioration of the body is a different issue. It's quite likely that only abuse of these chemicals causes 'rapid deterioration'. We have children who are being prescribed amphetamines on a daily basis and they seem to still grow up.
Alcohol abuse also causes deterioration of the body.

But the relative speed of deterioration etc is really a side point.

What I was saying was that legalization is not the same as saying it's okay to abuse it.
 
tlmorg02 said:
Yes, but the point is the damage done from meth use is 100x worse than that from smoking cigarettes, pot, or alcohol. So by the time anyone finds out that the child is using, the damage is done.
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Their doctors give children amphetamine salts to take daily for years at a time. Adderall and Ritalin etc.

The 100x worse thing is a red herring.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Their doctors give children amphetamine salts to take daily for years at a time. Adderall and Ritalin etc.

The 100x worse thing is a red herring.
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The only red herring is your comparison of amphetamine salts and crystal meth. I know, do an experiment and start using crystal meth, then tell us how safe it is and there should be no concern. Or better yet, give your kids some!
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Alcohol production is strictly controlled because it is legal.

I don't know the particulars of making meth, but they use hazmat teams to clean up after the labs. No such precautions are necessary for cleaning up from making your own alcohol. I strongly suspect that making alcohol is substantially simpler than making meth. Bathtub gin was quite popular for a time iirc.
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It's easy. Alcohol pretty much makes itself! Clean up for my beer making operation is soap, water and some diluted bleach. No haz mat suit needed.
 
tlmorg02 said:
The only red herring is your comparison of amphetamine salts and crystal meth. I know, do an experiment and start using crystal meth, then tell us how safe it is and there should be no concern. Or better yet, give your kids some!
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Actually, he'd likely have to ask his kids where to get it. Thanks to your laws making it so available to them.
 
stekim said:
Actually, he'd likely have to ask his kids where to get it. Thanks to your laws making it so available to them.
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I didn't mean for you to actually try it right now Stekim!!:shock: It is already effecting your arguments.:mrgreen:
 
tlmorg02 said:
I didn't mean for you to actually try it right now Stekim!!:shock: It is already effecting your arguments.:mrgreen:
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What are you talking about? Meth is as easy for kids to get as Ritalin. And they don't even need a doctor's note.
 
stekim said:
What are you talking about? Meth is as easy for kids to get as Ritalin. And they don't even need a doctor's note.
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If that is true then I am glad I do not live in Atlanta.;)
 
tlmorg02 said:
What actions do you think the U.S. should take to stem the flow of these drugs?
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Ultimatum, followed by military incursion and annexation.


We'd never do it, since we think the lessons of history are for others, but that would be the best approach.
 
tlmorg02 said:
If that is true then I am glad I do not live in Atlanta.;)
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Or maybe you are not a kid who wants meth, so you don't know how easy it is to get! And if you can't get it you can always Google how to make it. Good times.

There were people like you when I was in High School, too. The clueless teachers and PTA soccer moms who had no idea that their kid could get any drug he or she wanted right at school. How did little Johnny get coke? From the dude two lockers down, that's how. Yes, shocking indeed. Meth was not around when I was growing up (although I'm sure it had been invented). But parents were stunned to hear how many kids smoked weed and did coke. I guess it's tough to see with your head up your ass.
 
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Oftencold said:
Ultimatum, followed by military incursion and annexation.


We'd never do it, since we think the lessons of history are for others, but that would be the best approach.
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We could do another proxy war. Surely we could find a group to use.
 
stekim said:
Or maybe you are not a kid who wants meth, so you don't know how easy it is to get! And if you can't get it you can always Google how to make it. Good times.

There were people like you when I was in High School, too. The clueless teachers and PTA soccer moms who had no idea that their kid could get any drug he or she wanted right at school. How did little Johnny get coke? From the dude two lockers down, that's how. Yes, shocking indeed.
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:shock::shock:Your right, it will happen anyway!!! Lets legalize murder, rape, and everyother crime that is broken!:shock::shock:

It may be easy in some instances, but I assure you the number of zombies would increase dramatically if it were legalized. Anyway, we can agree to disagree. I am of mind that some drugs should be legalized, and if schools would get more strict and search lockers radomly, then there would be less instances of what you refer.
 
Here is why I am hesitant to ever call for Meth legalization.

Meth Usage

Significant numbers of American youth engage in heavy meth use and these numbers continue to increase. Causing damage to property and causing injury to themselves are among the most common problems associated with meth use. Tolerance for meth can develop with chronic use. In an effort to intensify the desired effects, users will take higher doses more frequently. In many cases, abusers go without food and sleep while indulging in a form of binging known as a “run,” injecting as much as a gram every two to three hours over a several day period. This will continue until the user runs out of the drug or is too disoriented to continue. Chronic meth abuse can result in inflammation of the heart lining as well as progressive social and occupational deterioration. Psychotic symptoms can sometimes persist for months or years after use has ceased (drug info).
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It is already on the increase among youth, and anything that causes people to become psychotic, really should not be legalized.
 
tlmorg02 said:
Here is why I am hesitant to ever call for Meth legalization.

Meth Usage



It is already on the increase among youth, and anything that causes people to become psychotic, really should not be legalized.
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was wondering what this has to do with the OP issue concerning venezuela being blamed for columbian drugs in the USA
 
justabubba said:
was wondering what this has to do with the OP issue concerning venezuela being blamed for columbian drugs in the USA
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Sorry for that. I was pulled into another direction by those advocating simply legalizing all drugs to end such problems. Now, why do you think that Venezuela is being framed, or unjustly blamed for bringing or supporting drug traffic into the U.S.?
 
tlmorg02 said:
Sorry for that. I was pulled into another direction by those advocating simply legalizing all drugs to end such problems. Now, why do you think that Venezuela is being framed, or unjustly blamed for bringing or supporting drug traffic into the U.S.?
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colombia, the source of the drugs is being held harmless

the USA, the destination, due to the demand for the drug is complaining

and venezuela should be held culpable for the drug problem in what way?
 
justabubba said:
colombia, the source of the drugs is being held harmless

the USA, the destination, due to the demand for the drug is complaining

and venezuela should be held culpable for the drug problem in what way?
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Did you read the article? Colombian drug groups are finding safe haven in Venezuela as the U.S. and Colombian authorities put pressure on them.

"If illegal armed groups continue to find safe haven in Venezuela and receive support from Venezuela, the permissive atmosphere and lack of co-operation will likely adversely affect the security gains made in Colombia since 2000," the report said.

According to researchers who prepared the report, visiting both Venezuela and Colombia earlier this year, Venezuelan officials were bribed to facilitate Colombian cocaine shipments.
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