Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

PeteEU said:

And that is how you define a "good nation" by what accomplishments, leadership and might they have? We are a nation of 5 million people, how much accomplishment, leadership and might do need to meet your standards? We also got 2000+ years of history, so where should we start?

Nuclear power would not have been possible if it was not for a Dane.. look up Niels Bohr. The planetary movement theory would not have been possible if not for a Dane. It was a dane that calculated the speed of light for the first time. C++.. heard of that.. yes it was a Dane that developed it. How much is C++ used in programming these days? PHP.. know that? Yes a dane made that.. these boards would not have been possible if it was not for a Dane..You know that place that is called "Palin land".. aka Alaska? Guess who discovered that... yes a Dane.. bet you cant guess his name.. let me give a hint.. what is the sea between Alaska and Russia called? Do you want to go on?

We might not have many people in our small nation, and we may not be on everyones lips, but we have had an impact on human life on this planet, long before the idea of the USA was even contemplated...no wait a minute.. if it was not for a Dane, then there would be no USA, because guess who discovered the freaking place!.. yes the Vikings, sailing from the area known as Denmark and Norway.. go figure!

Yes I was offended by your comment. Belittling a nation just because it is a small nation is uncalled for. It shows the very arrogance that many people absolutely loath about American's, the French and the British. You are not the center of the universe, did not invent everything and did not discover everything. There existed a world before 1776 and a world after 1776. Get over it.

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Again, I meant no offense, and yes, you've made far more contributions to science and art than you are given creditted for. I acknowledge that.

But it is impossible to compare and contract two countries as disproportionate in size and cultural diversity as Denmark and the US. It's empty criticism from a Dane when you fail to acknowledge the complexities of the US' place in the world today versus yours.

Laila said:

Not the bloody 'speaking german' speech ... :doh

I'd rather thank Stalin, Russians lost entire generations and we musn't forget the role Russian winter played to the defeat of Nazis.

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And if not for the US, they'd now be speaking Russian. Who do you think kept Russia at bay after WWII?

americanwoman said:

WTF is your problem with Denmark?

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LOL. None whatsoever. I'd love to see it someday.

Just gets in my craw to hear how the US needs to be more like Denmark, like we have such a luxury even if we wanted to.

Erod said:

Just gets in my craw to hear how the US needs to be more like Denmark, like we have such a luxury even if we wanted to.

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US or rather Americans need to be more pragmatic in its approach to moral and sensitive issues.

Laila said:

US or rather Americans need to be more pragmatic in its approach to moral and sensitive issues.

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And Europeans need to stop trying to turn the US into a mirror image of themselves. Our way has built the most prosperous, charitable, and powerful nation the world has ever seen, and we're less than 250 years old.

You live in London, I see. What happened to your storied country? I LOVE English history and folklore, just love it. Granted, there was a lot of ugliness to the once imperialistic ways of England, but what happened to the Englishmen's soul and sophistication? Where is your Margaret Thatcher today? You are now being overtaken by the very people that seek to destroy you, and you're just taking it. You've turned French, and the French are turning into you.

Now, I'm encouraged by where your elections appear to be headed, mind you.

Erod said:

Again, I meant no offense, and yes, you've made far more contributions to science and art than you are given creditted for. I acknowledge that.

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Good there is hope for you yet

But it is impossible to compare and contract two countries as disproportionate in size and cultural diversity as Denmark and the US. It's empty criticism from a Dane when you fail to acknowledge the complexities of the US' place in the world today versus yours.

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The complexities of the US's place in the world? Come on.. I fully acknowledge that the US is far more influential and powerful when compared to Denmark and most other nations. However using that as some kind of excuse to defend the bonehead policies of your politicians in this area is frankly pathetic.

The reason that the US has a high teen pregnancy rate compared to similar countries is lack of education, a "ikky" factor about sex (up tight people) and the mixed messages given off by your parents, politicians and especially your religious figureheads.

All this has combined into a miss match of policies that does nothing to combat the problem, and in many ways promote it. On one side you have bleeding heart politicians inspired by religious dogma attempting to control the sexual lives of people, on the other side you have very powerful religious figureheads that say the same, and then you have your very important "freedom" principles that go totally against the first twos agendas. The US is the land of the free right? that is unless it is the freedom to screw who ever you want....

This in turn leads to idiotic things like "abstinence promotion" over teaching children and adults (yes it is sad to say you need it also) about safe sex and contraception. And then a new administration comes to power, one with far more sensible attitudes (no where perfect) towards the issue, and the policies change yet again. Talk about confusion and double speak. Policies change pretty much every 4 to 8 years, from being a bit lazzie fair to near hardcore Taliban thinking..

And then you have the parents, acting like parents. That aint something you can change per say, but parents are a dumb animal, believing their small angles will remain pure and uncorrupted forever.. No, the small angles. will screw around just as their parents, they will drink, smoke, and break laws and they will lie. They are after all humans too. So why not make them as informed as possible and help them protect themselves on their journey through this thing called...life. Instead you have a minority very vocal parents and influential parents pushing politicians to basicly enact chastity belts for girls.. (yes I am exaggerating)

But the biggest blunder by those wanting to control the sexual lives of people.. is that they more than often cant control their own sexual urges! Why should anyone believe or follow the "rules" put out by people like Mark Sanford or other right wing talking heads (yes it is the right that promotes this hypocritical attitudes more than the left) about sexual matters when they cant keep it in their own pants for peak sake. It is like the catholic church being against the abuse of children and yet protecting priests that abuse children...

Basically.. stay the hell out of regulating normal sexual behaviour and provide all the necessary information and items to make that normal sexual behaviour as safe as possible for everyone.

So no, it has nothing to do with how big your country is or how "diverse" it is. It has to do with sensible attitudes and laws to the issue.

1069 said:

None of this stuff is new, Chuck.
I'm sure parents had the same lament back in the 60s, when all major department stores began carrying mini- and micro-skirts for eight-year-olds.
I grew up in the 80s, and if anything I think teens were far more blatantly "sexualized" back then.
Hell, there was a whole genre of movies entirely about teenagers screwing.
The Blue Lagoon was probably the most popular one, but there were a bunch of knock-offs, and also a bunch of movies that played mainly on late night cable that were entirely about, say, high schoolers getting laid. Or else high schoolers trying unsuccessfully to get laid.
The attitude toward abortion was much more laid-back. Look at the casual, blase treatment of abortion in 1982's classic "Fast Times at Ridgemont High". You would not see abortion treated so lightly in a movie today. Popular film-makers today tend to avoid the issue entirely, since attempting to deal with it, from any perspective, is akin to poking a hornet's nest with a stick.
Back in the 80s, all of the most popular teen actresses did nude scenes, sometimes even sex scenes. Phoebe Cates, Brooke Shields, Jennifer Jason Leigh, ALL of them. And yes, they did them while they were still minors.
Today, we've got people going ballistic because a 15 or 16-year-old Miley Cyrus appears on the cover of a mainstream magazine draped in fabric which exposes her bare shoulders. Oh yeah, she's also wearing lipstick. The horror! :roll:
So, let's see... in the 80s we had tweens and teens wearing tube tops, slop-buckets full of makeup, and Guess jeans so tight they had to zip themselves into them using a coathanger (remember that?).

To me, teens seem more innocent today than they did 20 years ago; more childish, more prudish.
Kids were more sophisticated 20 years ago, better at impersonating adults (or at least, more interested in doing so).
In the 80s (and the 70s, and the 60s...) kids smoked, drank, and did a lot of drugs. And had a lot of casual sex (or at least attempted to). They partied.

True, some kids still do these things today, but it seems like those are the "bad kids". The rebels and outcasts.
Back in my day, these behaviors were pretty normative. It wasn't only the bad kids that did them. It was the mainstream kids, too.
Many, many kids in the 1980s were latch-key kids, children of divorced single working parents, raising themselves and in many cases their younger siblings as well, without much adult supervision.
Today it's just not acceptable for an eleven-year-old to come home to an empty house after school and babysit his two younger brothers until mom gets home. This situation is frowned upon.
But back in the 80s, that was just the way things were done. It wasn't considered strange or inappropriate or dangerous or illegal.
Kids had to be more mature, more independent. They had to grow up faster back then.
Today, I think maybe we shelter them too much.

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1069 is back! :2wave:

obvious Child said:

Anyone remember this thread?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...nce-only-funding-budget-6.html#post1058016481

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Yes, more sex ed and condoms will stop teen pregnancy and STD's.

That damned Bush guy messed everything up.

Truth Detector said:

Yes, more sex ed and condoms will stop teen pregnancy and STD's.

That damned Bush guy messed everything up.

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I'd say the knowledge of teen pregnancy and STD's would do a damn sight more than abstinence would. I don't agree with Bush urging for funding for abstinence-only education, but I certainly don't blame him for the teen pregnancy and disease rates because of it.

Erod said:

And Europeans need to stop trying to turn the US into a mirror image of themselves. Our way has built the most prosperous, charitable, and powerful nation the world has ever seen, and we're less than 250 years old.
.

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And American's have to stop thinking they did all this on their own. Much of the prosperity and power was gained on the backs of European nations especially but most nations in the world. No nation in Earth history has ever on its own gained massive amounts of power and prosperity on its own.. it has always been on the backs of others.

Plus being the most "prosperous and power nation".. is relatively speaking. I would claim that the British Empire and the Roman Empire were far more powerful and prosperous than the US will ever be, since the US is in a decline.

The British Empire and the UK in general basically invented on the backs of the Dutch btw, the economic system we all use today. They controlled globally with a massive fleet that no one could remotely match and a massive army that controlled at least at its height 1/4 of the worlds landmass. They basically invented global trade (on their terms). At one time a majority of the people on the planet I bet were under the British crown..

The Roman Empire covered most of the known world (at the lime), and thanks to the Greeks, the Roman Empire lasted for many many hundreds of years, and generated many of the innovations we use every day.. roads for example. Their landmark on history is still visible across the area of its former glory... 500+ years after the last remnants of the Roman Empire were defeated at Constantinople.

Or how about the Islamic Empire? It also was huge at its height, and culturally and scientifically it still today has a huge impact. It basically invented many medical devices and techniques (basic) that we still use today, not to mention mathematics and astronomy..

Or how about the various Chinese empires? Giving us things like paper money, silk, gunpowder, cannons and so on?

Come to think about it, what exactly has the US invented all on its own since it came to existence?

PeteEU said:

Yea Denmark is one hell of a morally corrupt society.. I agree fully. We care for our elderly, we care for our sick, we defend the weak in society, and we provide for those that need regardless of sexual orientation, religion, sex or race.. ohh we are so morally corrupt! This corruption has created one of the most economically even societies in the world, one of the richest, with the some of the lowest unemployment and high economic growth.. and yes high taxes, but with free education and UHC... oh the morally corruption!

But back in what we call reality, there is a very good reason for why there is a low teen pregnancy rate in places like Denmark.

Education and easy access to contraception. Pure and simple.

We teach our children the facts of life and we teach our girls how to control their own body. We do not teach that sex is a sin, or that you will go to hell if you have sex outside of marriage. We do not have conflicting messages from religious morons and politicians confusing the young. The Danish church is not much different than any other churches but they have almost totally pulled out of the political scene and rarely comment on anything. Yes they are officially against gay marriage, abortion and sex before marriage.. There is one religious political party but it lost its parliamentarian seats a decade ago or so and has not pulled enough votes to get in since.. no where close. The political parties all, including the conservatives, acknowledge that religion and sex are private matters that government should not interfere with.

There is a clear policy in Denmark that it is up to the individual to decide on ones future and the whole society is built around that principle. That is why we have a legal consent age at 15, and partial economic freedom at 15, and full adulthood at age 18 (vote, drink, drive, marriage). Schools, education and everything basically is built up around the principle of the child having to decide as much as possible self, with of course the guidance of adults. Children are taut to think self at an early age for one and that follows children all the way through adulthood. And yes that causes other problems...

But the country with the lowest teen pregnancy rate in the western world is Holland/Netherlands and guess why?... again.. education at an early age...I believe that like in Denmark, there are mandatory sexual education classes at a very early age, and contraception is freely available for anyone.

But the most important thing.. Danes are far from as uptight about sex and the human body as Americans are.. We Danes all looked on in total puzzlement over the whole Janet Jackson boob slip... so much crap for nothing.

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I love it when people attempt to compare an apple to an avocado.

Denmark has a homogenous ethnic population of about 8 million which is smaller than metropolitan Los Angeles. Great example! :rofl

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Danish]Danish people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Laila said:

No Denmark doesn't have military might but it does seem to have common sense and pragmatism on hard issues, a very strong moral and ethical line. Not to mention a pretty brilliant country with low crime rate compared to US.

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Not to mention a homogenous white Scandinavian population that is smaller than one major US city.

Jerry said:

Reading is great, you should try it sometime:



Where does the CDC state the cause?

This is correlation only.

99% of people who die had a meal within the last 24 houres. ZMOG MEALS KILL!!!

Liberals are so ****ing stupid.

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The irony?

If we used the logic that correlation=causation, sex education causes teen pregnancy.

Sex education took off sometime in the 60s. Unwed teen pregnancy has been increasing ever since.

Erod said:

Where is your Margaret Thatcher today?

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Thankfully non existent.
You lost me when you mentioned her. You shouldn't have mentioned that woman.

What conservatives winning next election? Hardly something to encouraged about. Thankfully all the real right wing british conservatives are stuck in brussels like Hannan

Dr_Patrick said:

I'd say the knowledge of teen pregnancy and STD's would do a damn sight more than abstinence would. I don't agree with Bush urging for funding for abstinence-only education, but I certainly don't blame him for the teen pregnancy and disease rates because of it.

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What part of REALITY suggests that our kids are currently NOT getting sex education? I have been dealing with the school systems in several states over the last 19 years and not ONCE have I seen any of the PUBLIC schools teaching "abstinence only."

Where do you people get this pabulum? Where is “abstinence ONLY” taught in our public schools? Where are the FACTS?

Yes Bush preached abstinence; most parents do the same unless they are freaks. Where is that a BAD idea and how is the connection being made by the thread author that the increase has anything to do with Bush's policies and belief in abstinence?

Truth Detector said:

What part of REALITY suggests that our kids are currently NOT getting sex education? I have been dealing with the school systems in several states over the last 19 years and not ONCE have I seen any of the PUBLIC schools teaching "abstinence only."

Where do you people get this pabulum? Where is “abstinence ONLY” taught in our public schools? Where are the FACTS?

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It depends on the school. The school I went to didn't even have a sex ed program when I attended.

Oh, and the only comment I made was that teaching kids about the facts is far better than letting them remain ignorant about them. I didn't assert anything about how many schools have an abstinence only program.

Yes Bush preached abstinence; most parents do the same unless they are freaks. Where is that a BAD idea and how is the connection being made by the thread author that the increase has anything to do with Bush's policies and belief in abstinence?

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How exactly are parents freaks if they want their kids to be informed? Different parents have different methods of raising their kids. Just because you think that parents should raise their kids to believe in abstinence doesn't mean that everyone does.

PeteEU said:

And American's have to stop thinking they did all this on their own. Much of the prosperity and power was gained on the backs of European nations especially but most nations in the world. No nation in Earth history has ever on its own gained massive amounts of power and prosperity on its own.. it has always been on the backs of others.

Plus being the most "prosperous and power nation".. is relatively speaking. I would claim that the British Empire and the Roman Empire were far more powerful and prosperous than the US will ever be, since the US is in a decline.

The British Empire and the UK in general basically invented on the backs of the Dutch btw, the economic system we all use today. They controlled globally with a massive fleet that no one could remotely match and a massive army that controlled at least at its height 1/4 of the worlds landmass. They basically invented global trade (on their terms). At one time a majority of the people on the planet I bet were under the British crown..

The Roman Empire covered most of the known world (at the lime), and thanks to the Greeks, the Roman Empire lasted for many many hundreds of years, and generated many of the innovations we use every day.. roads for example. Their landmark on history is still visible across the area of its former glory... 500+ years after the last remnants of the Roman Empire were defeated at Constantinople.

Or how about the Islamic Empire? It also was huge at its height, and culturally and scientifically it still today has a huge impact. It basically invented many medical devices and techniques (basic) that we still use today, not to mention mathematics and astronomy..

Or how about the various Chinese empires? Giving us things like paper money, silk, gunpowder, cannons and so on?

Come to think about it, what exactly has the US invented all on its own since it came to existence?

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Your issues with US policy and global economics is laughable at best; but it also begs the question, what the hell are they teaching kids in Europe these days? I can only hope that you are the exception to the rule.

Nothing can be more amusing than watching Europeans ranting about US policy when they have spent centuries fighting amongst themselves, starting two global wars that resulted in MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of lives lost and then claim they have some kind of moral high ground to rant about the US.

Europe is wallowing in a malaise of social welfare and mountains of regulation which stifles GDP and you think you have a better idea than America?

You have got to be kidding me right?

Carry on. :roll:

Dav said:

The irony?

If we used the logic that correlation=causation, sex education causes teen pregnancy.

Sex education took off sometime in the 60s. Unwed teen pregnancy has been increasing ever since.

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Interesting point.

Truth Detector said:

Nothing can be more amusing than watching Europeans ranting about US policy when they have spent centuries fighting amongst themselves, starting two global wars that resulted in MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of lives lost and then claim they have some kind of moral high ground to rant about the US

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Woah woah woah. Back up and stop right there.

Is US preaching to Europe about war especially considering it has started how many in the last 50 years? :roll: :shock:

No one says Europe has a perfect history, for a continent so old. You are bound to find bloodshed.

Dr_Patrick said:

It depends on the school. The school I went to didn't even have a sex ed program when I attended.

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Which Public School system would this have been?

Dr_Patrick said:

Oh, and the only comment I made was that teaching kids about the facts is far better than letting them remain ignorant about them. I didn't assert anything about how many schools have an abstinence only program.

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The premise of the thread and many of the Liberal posters on the forum is making this assertion.

Originally Posted by Truth Detector
Yes Bush preached abstinence; most parents do the same unless they are freaks. Where is that a BAD idea and how is the connection being made by the thread author that the increase has anything to do with Bush's policies and belief in abstinence?

Dr_Patrick said:

How exactly are parents freaks if they want their kids to be informed? Different parents have different methods of raising their kids. Just because you think that parents should raise their kids to believe in abstinence doesn't mean that everyone does.

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You missed what I was saying; I am saying that parents who do NOT preach abstinence to their children regardless of all the other things we deal with regarding under age sex are freaks. What NORMAL parent is going to suggest that sex is okay to their children?

Any NORMAL parent is going to preach abstinence to their children and strongly suggest that they should wait to have sex until they are more mature and have a meaningful relationship. It doesn’t always work, my situation would be one example, but you at least TRY.

Laila said:

Woah woah woah. Back up and stop right there.

Is US preaching to Europe about war especially considering it has started how many in the last 50 years? :roll: :shock:

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I would love to see the list of wars started by the US over the last 50 years. Let's see what they are teaching you Euro's these days in school.

Laila said:

No one says Europe has a perfect history, for a continent so old. You are bound to find bloodshed.

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When I read yours and Pete's posts, one gets the impression that Europeans are all that and the US has its head up its ass. I am just putting your farcical history into the proper perspective.

Your notions about the benevolence of Soviet involvement in WWII and its contributions to Hitler’s demise are amusing at best, but historically lacking many facts.

Truth Detector said:

Yes Bush preached abstinence; most parents do the same unless they are freaks. Where is that a BAD idea and how is the connection being made by the thread author that the increase has anything to do with Bush's policies and belief in abstinence?

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Freaks? How about "realists"?

Truth Detector said:

Which Public School system would this have been?

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The small town in Montana that I grew up in. I would imagine that there are similar examples in other small towns across America. Some of the stories I've heard are incredibly bizarre and somewhat hilarious because kids my age at the time really had no clue what they were doing. That sure didn't stop them from trying though.

EgoffTib said:

Freaks? How about "realists"?

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So parents who do not preach abstinence to their children are just being realists? Do such parents even exist?

I am having a hard time thinking that anyone, who is not a freak, with kids hasn't said that having sex before you are an adult or even married is a BAD idea.

Do you know of any NORMAL parents who are "realists" and say "look kids, I know you are going to have sex so just be safe, use a condom and do it right? "

Truth Detector said:

So parents who do not preach abstinence to their children are just being realists? Do such parents even exist?

I am having a hard time thinking that anyone, who is not a freak, with kids hasn't said that having sex before you are an adult or even married is a BAD idea.

Do you know of any NORMAL parents who are "realists" and say "look kids, I know you are going to have sex so just be safe, use a condom and do it right?"

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My parents explained that they would prefer I refrain from having sex until I was an adult, but that they understood the pressures and poor judgement that come with being a teenager. My dad and I talked about the importance of safe sex(knowing your partner's sexual history and using contraceptives) on many an occasion. I guess my parents are freaks. :roll: