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Top scholar Gates arrested in Mass., claims racism

PogueMoran said:
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Okay so the media got that part wrong. But the gist of my argument had nothing to do with race. Once again Crowley had no right to make the arrest as probable cause no longer applied when he IDed Gates
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He wasn't arrested for the ID... He was arrested for disorderly conduct.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
He wasn't arrested for the ID... He was arrested for disorderly conduct.
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I understand that but did you read what I said? The disorderly conduct infraction was manufactured. At the point that he IDed Gates inside his house the officer should have left as probable cause was no longer valid. The cop could have been the bigger man here sure Gates was a dick but there are no laws making it illegal to be a dick to an officer in the comforts of your own home. The officer told him to come outside to get the cops badge number and name. The cop knew the neighbors would be wondering why the cops were at Gates' house. Once again he had no right to arrest him because there was disorderly conduct inside Gates' home.
 
PogueMoran said:
So once the cop went into the house and indentified Gates as the rightful owner of the house it should have stopped there. The whole reason the cop was there because of suspicion of a burglary. After identifying Gates probable cause disappeared and it should have been left at that.
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It should have. If Gates would have shut his fool mouth it would have. Harassing a cop for doing his job and making sure his house wasn't being robbed is not leaving well enough alone.

Crowley did his job and Gates' response was to shout in public that Crowley was racist. Gates is the only player in this who made race an issue. Not the witness, not Crowley, not the Cambridge PD--Gates.
 
celticlord said:
It should have. If Gates would have shut his fool mouth it would have. Harassing a cop for doing his job and making sure his house wasn't being robbed is not leaving well enough alone.

Crowley did his job and Gates' response was to shout in public that Crowley was racist. Gates is the only player in this who made race an issue. Not the witness, not Crowley, not the Cambridge PD--Gates.
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Once again there is no law making it illegal to be a dick to an officer while in your own home. He was not in public when shouting at the officer. He was in his own home. Even then it was not lawful for the officer to arrest Gates outside for an argument that happened within his own home. As I stated above Gates did not fit the 3 clauses of Disorderly Conduct. The police officer being on the scene did not make this a public disturbance according to the findings in Commonwealth V Mulvey.

You can call an officer in your own home a son of a bitch if you want to and there's no law against it. The fact remains once probable cause vanished the officer had no cause to arrest Gates no matter what he said in the confines of his own home. That's also the probable reason the charges were dropped.

Once the cop made sure Gates' house wasn't being robbed, the cop's job was over. He was obligated to leave and provide his badge number and ID when asked by Gates. Instead he told Gates to come outside to get it so he could arrest him on a trumped up disorderly conduct charge.
 
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PogueMoran said:
You can call an officer in your own home a son of a bitch if you want to and there's no law against it. The fact remains once probable cause vanished the officer had no cause to arrest Gates no matter what he said in the confines of his own home. That's also the probable reason the charges were dropped.
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And when you call that same officer a racist at the top of your lungs in public it's called disturbing the peace.

Game, set, match, Crowley.
 
He was on his porch...


Could be be on his porch naked with his blood engorged member in his hands hollerin at teh shortiez without being arrested?

Why not?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Could be be on his porch naked with his blood engorged member in his hands hollerin at teh shortiez without being arrested?

Why not?
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Because he's not the Good Reverend?:mrgreen:

(could not resist)
 
celticlord said:
And when you call that same officer a racist at the top of your lungs in public it's called disturbing the peace.

Game, set, match, Crowley.
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Once again incorrect. While in the confines of his own home he can shout at the officer as loud as he wants to. What part of the statute do you not understand?

There was no disorderly conduct the officer had to pull Gates outside to give him a trumped up charge
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
He was on his porch...


Could be be on his porch naked with his blood engorged member in his hands hollerin at teh shortiez without being arrested?

Why not?
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Obviously even you know the difference between being in your home and creating a disturbance outside while being naked. Being naked would be another misdemeanor in itself... Now you're just being absurd
 
PogueMoran said:
Obviously even you know the difference between being in your home and creating a disturbance outside while being naked. Being naked would be another misdemeanor in itself... Now you're just being absurd
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Please cite the law. He is on his porch.....


What is the difference between disorderly and lewd actions in view of the public, even from your private home.


If I was gates neighbor, I might take out a complaint... :lol:
 
PogueMoran said:
Once again incorrect. While in the confines of his own home he can shout at the officer as loud as he wants to. What part of the statute do you not understand?

There was no disorderly conduct the officer had to pull Gates outside to give him a trumped up charge
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You're mistaken. Cambridge has a strict noise ordinance: City Of Cambridge - Department Announcement. You can't be as loud as you wish inside or outside your home.

This might involve any type of noise disturbance including excessive noise from a neighbor’s house or apartment, kids on a street corner, loud car stereos, etc. Call the ECC at the police non-emergency number, 617-349-3300, and the ECC will dispatch the appropriate neighborhood police unit. Sometimes the neighborhood unit is busy on another call or going on or off-duty at their shift change, so please be patient in awaiting a response.
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If an officer could hear him shouting from outside of his home, he was disorderly.
 
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PogueMoran said:
Once again incorrect. While in the confines of his own home he can shout at the officer as loud as he wants to. What part of the statute do you not understand?
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What part of Gates was outside when he was shouting that Crowley was a racist do you not understand.

Crowley was leaving the house and Gates followed him.

You keep saying Crowley should have left--Crowley was leaving. Gates would not let it drop.

Crowley did everything that you say he should have done. Gates would not let it drop.

Gates picked a fight with a cop and got a tour of a holding cell as the grand boobie prize.

Game, set, match, Crowley.
 
PogueMoran said:
Obviously even you know the difference between being in your home and creating a disturbance outside while being naked. Being naked would be another misdemeanor in itself... Now you're just being absurd
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Not necessarily. In many places, the nudity has to be alarming and disturbing, or in pursuit of sexual gratification.

(When, like me, you're too sexy for your shirt, you have to know these things to avoid starting riots at random! :mrgreen:)
 
celticlord said:
What part of Gates was outside when he was shouting that Crowley was a racist do you not understand.

Crowley was leaving the house and Gates followed him.

You keep saying Crowley should have left--Crowley was leaving. Gates would not let it drop.

Crowley did everything that you say he should have done. Gates would not let it drop.

Gates picked a fight with a cop and got a tour of a holding cell as the grand boobie prize.

Game, set, match, Crowley.
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No Crowley told Gates if he wanted Crowley's badge number and identification to come outside. The original argument happened inside the house where Crowley was following Gates around and after Gates produced 2 separate IDs and Crowley didn't think that was enough. The crowd only gathered because of the cops being at his house. If Crowley did everything he said he could have done he would have been the bigger man and left the scene. How hard is that? Sure Gates was a dick but Crowley didn't have to retaliate. Then the charges were dropped so what was the point?
 
Catz Part Deux said:
You're mistaken. Cambridge has a strict noise ordinance: City Of Cambridge - Department Announcement. You can't be as loud as you wish inside or outside your home.



If an officer could hear him shouting from outside of his home, he was disorderly.
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If it was a noise complaint he would have cited him for a noise complaint not disorderly conduct.

Also in regards to the statute. Massachusetts general law 272 defines a disorderly person as one who:

with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or

recklessly creates a risk thereof

engages in fighting or threatening, violent or tumultuous behavior, or

creates a hazard or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose.


Now 1. There was no public inconvenience as the argument took place inside his home. Crowley took it outside when he told Gates if he wanted Crowleys name and badge number he would come outside.

2. There was no reckless risk created

3. He did not fight or theaten the officer to cause harm to the officer.

4. There was no hazard or physically offensive condition. He did not fight or hit the officer or anyone else.
 
PogueMoran said:
No Crowley told Gates if he wanted Crowley's badge number and identification to come outside.
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Gates already had Crowley's information. Crowley told Gates if he had "anything else to say to him" he could say it outside. In other words, Crowley was done, Crowley wanted out of there, Crowley was not going to stand in front of a race-baiting blowhard, and that was that.

If Gates had not followed, no arrest, no fuss, no controversy....and no fifteen minutes of fame for the Hahvahd nobody.
 
celticlord said:
Gates already had Crowley's information. Crowley told Gates if he had "anything else to say to him" he could say it outside. In other words, Crowley was done, Crowley wanted out of there, Crowley was not going to stand in front of a race-baiting blowhard, and that was that.

If Gates had not followed, no arrest, no fuss, no controversy....and no fifteen minutes of fame for the Hahvahd nobody.
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No Gates did not have his information otherwise he wouldn't have asked multiple times for it. He told Gates to come outside to get his badge number and name. At that point he brought him outside and slapped the cuffs on him further pushing the situation. If Crowley was done he would have just left. Once again as a police officer why did Crowley not take the high ground and act like the bigger man?

Also I think Crowley had a better case for Contempt of Cop as his fellow cops had shown up and were outside.

BTW Gates is not a harvard nobody just because you've never heard of him before. He's a well respected professor as well as a literary critic, writer, editor and scholar. He has had numerous awards and honors and sits on the boards of many notable institutions. Hardly a nobody as you say
 
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PogueMoran said:
No Gates did not have his information otherwise he wouldn't have asked multiple times for it. He told Gates to come outside to get his badge number and name. At that point he brought him outside and slapped the cuffs on him further pushing the situation. If Crowley was done he would have just left. Once again as a police officer why did Crowley not take the high ground and act like the bigger man?
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Crowley did act like the bigger man. He gave Gates his information, confirmed there was no crime in progress, radioed pertinent information back to the dispatcher, and made ready to exit the premises. Crowley acted, by all available evidence, like a solid professional.

Crowley did not bring Gates outside. Gates followed Crowley outside so he could shout racist garbage at him. Gates picked a fight with a cop who did his job and was in the process of leaving. Gates intentionally escalated that which did not need to be escalated.

Crowley did act like the bigger man. Unfortunately, Gates decided to play the very small man and would not let Crowley leave without a fight.

When you fight in public, it's called disturbing the peace, and you go to jail while you cool your hot head down. That's what happened. The hahvahd nobody picked a fight, went to jail for his time out--which is the correct thing to do when someone is acting like a spoiled brat. No racism, no abuse of power, no impropriety.
 
PogueMoran said:
BTW Good Reverend the police report also seems to make the same mistake and infer that the woman observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of Ware Street
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I'm just reporting the facts. His race is irrellevant except to race baiters like the president and this loud mouthed "professor"
 
PogueMoran said:
He told Gates to come outside to get his badge number and name. At that point he brought him outside and slapped the cuffs on him further pushing the situation. If Crowley was done he would have just left. Once again as a police officer why did Crowley not take the high ground and act like the bigger man?
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Actually, the cop claims that he was attempting to radio the information in. The professor was so loud that the cop couldn't hear anything.

He had to get out of the house so he could be heard and hear what was being transmitted to him.

He told the good prof. that if he had more to say, he'd have to come outside.

While outside, the good prof. kept it up after multiple warnings - there were more warnings while outside - then was arrested.
 
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celticlord said:
Crowley did act like the bigger man. He gave Gates his information, confirmed there was no crime in progress, radioed pertinent information back to the dispatcher, and made ready to exit the premises. Crowley acted, by all available evidence, like a solid professional.

Crowley did not bring Gates outside. Gates followed Crowley outside so he could shout racist garbage at him. Gates picked a fight with a cop who did his job and was in the process of leaving. Gates intentionally escalated that which did not need to be escalated.

Crowley did act like the bigger man. Unfortunately, Gates decided to play the very small man and would not let Crowley leave without a fight.

When you fight in public, it's called disturbing the peace, and you go to jail while you cool your hot head down. That's what happened. The hahvahd nobody picked a fight, went to jail for his time out--which is the correct thing to do when someone is acting like a spoiled brat. No racism, no abuse of power, no impropriety.
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Crowley had asked Gates to come outside even that is in the police report. If everything was done properly the charges wouldn't have been dropped. Once again according to Commonwealth v Melvey the appearance of a police officer does not connotate public behavior. The people were gathered already because the police were on scene.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
I'm just reporting the facts. His race is irrellevant except to race baiters like the president and this loud mouthed "professor"
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The president and race has nothing to do with the police report and what this woman is now saying. If you want to call the president a race baiter make another thread.
 
buck said:
Actually, the cop claims that he was attempting to radio the information in. The professor was so loud that the cop couldn't hear anything.

He had to get out of the house so he could be heard and hear what was being transmitted to him.

He told the good prof. that if he had more to say, he'd have to come outside.

While outside, the good prof. kept it up after multiple warnings - there were more warnings while outside - then was arrested.
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Actually after Gates asked for his ID again in the report he told Gates he'd have to come outside. Again there are two sides to every story we have yet to hear Gates' full side and everyone has focused on Crowley's side. So again I ask what harm would it have done if the officer just left the property? Obviously he felt some threat to his authority because Gates called other officers to the scene.
 
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