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Top scholar Gates arrested in Mass., claims racism

ARealConservative said:
just saying what?

If you are going to engage in personal attacks, don't be such a coward about it and spell it out.
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I don't know you, so I won't speculate as to whether you are a scofflaw or a low life... I simply do not know.


What I do know, is that everytime I hear someone make such stupid remarks about "most cops", its usually something amiss in the person making the absurd claim, and not those wascally cops....


If the Good Reverend was to insult you, you would take it as a compliment, he is that good.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
I don't know you, so I won't speculate as to whether you are a scofflaw or a low life... I simply do not know.


What I do know, is that everytime I hear someone make such stupid remarks about "most cops", its usually something amiss in the person making the absurd claim, and not those wascally cops....


If the Good Reverend was to insult you, you would take it as a compliment, he is that good.
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your shtick is rather old.
 
Lerxst said:
So the cop sticks to his crappy story. So? That doesn't mean anything, he's already got priors in this case. And I don't care that he said there were numerous witnesses, what's absent are the statements of those witnesses. You have no idea what those civilians thought about what was going on because the police did not interview them and take statements.
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There is a lot of grey that still needs to come forth, there is murmurs of a tape... lets wait and see, I don't think you and I would come to a consensus on this at this time.


You are dead wrong. You can't break and enter into your own home. He could not have legally been arrested for that crime. And he did produce I.D.
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Think about it. As a former LEO, If you came across a man who just busted down the door of a home, then refused to show you ID. Are you suggesting to me that he could not be arrested for failing to provide ID and breaking and entering?


And yes, eventually he did produce ID.... relucantly.... It could have legally gone much worse for this race baiter....





Reading Crowley's report and reading the state statute on "disorderly conduct" Gates is not guilty of that crime.

If it were a college kid the arrest would still be bad, whether or not he got an admission of wrong doing from the agency.

All other things aside, the arrest was bad, the report was bad.
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I disagree. I think it was textbook, maybe too textbook, but textbook none the less....


My point about the college kid, is he still would be sitting in jail. ;)
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
The relevant Massachussetts code was cited in this thread. Doesn't say a single damn word about the need for the disorderly behavior to be witnessed and compained about by a citizen. It merely says one can be arrested for disorderly behavior, and in fact, the disorderly behavior has to be witnessed by the arresting officer in order for the arrest to be made or the courts are just going to toss the case out.

So what you've done is merely latch onto some bogus protect-the-asshole-bigot-racist argument that has no legal merit and no rational basis, and you're going to hold firm to that because you know that since no citizen complaint is necessary, no citizen complaint is going to be filed, especially not since the charges have already been dropped.

In other words, you're being dishonest.
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In other words you don't know what the **** you're talking about son.

The statute clearly states the offender must, with purpose, engage in behavior that causes an annoyance, nuisance, or alarm to "the public."

This officer failed to document any facts that can show Gates had "purpose" to cause "alarm" to "the public." Where is the victim statement from a member of the public that they were actually alarmed?

I know Crowley said they "appeared alarmed" but that doesn't cut it. No more so than an officer who sees a person who appears to be speeding can actually prove they are speeding without some kind of evidence (pace, radar, etc). Crowley needed a member of the public to provide a statement complaining that Gates behavior actually caused them to be alarmed.

Period.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Like the other anti-cop poster, you refuse to reveal the nature of your hatred for those that enforce laws. Rather a self revealing answer to my previous query, no? :lol:
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I'm all for dealing with crimes effectively.

A crime needs a victim. Which citizen stepped forward as the victim?

oh, that's right, the cop looked around and could see people were being victimized. :spin:

sorry, this is just another case of power corrupting.
 
ARealConservative said:
I'm all for dealing with crimes effectively.

A crime needs a victim. Which citizen stepped forward as the victim?

oh, that's right, the cop looked around and could see people were being victimized. :spin:

sorry, this is just another case of power corrupting.
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This response has nothing to do with my issue with your asinine "most cops" comments. Are we trying to change the subject now?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
This response has nothing to do with my issue with your asinine "most cops" comments. Are we trying to change the subject now?
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I'll raise the stakes - not most cops, most people abuse power given to them.
 
Scorpion89 said:
Top scholar Gates arrested in Mass., claims racism | Comcast.net

BOSTON — Henry Louis Gates Jr., the nation's pre-eminent black scholar, is accusing Cambridge police of racism after he was arrested while trying to force open the locked front door of his home near Harvard University.

Cambridge police were called to the home Thursday afternoon after a woman reported seeing a man "wedging his shoulder into the front door as to pry the door open," according to a police report.

An officer ordered the man to identify himself, and Gates refused, according to the report. Gates began calling the officer a racist and said repeatedly, "This is what happens to black men in America."

Officers said they tried to calm down the 58-year-old academic, who responded, "You don't know who you're messing with," according to the police report.

Yea way to go there Prof. when a Cop ask you ti ID yourself the best thing for you to do is sure officer here is my ID and as you can see I live here. I locked myself out and was trying to force the door open.

You most likely won't get arrsted and I'm pretty sure the Cops will even try to help you.

But no the Good Prof. had to start yelling out that the Cops were being racist and they had no idea who they were messing with.
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I and I am sure others(I haven't read the whole thread) see it as an elitist snob who thinks that just because he is a professor at an elite university he can treat the working man like ****. I hope the police press what ever charges they can against the professor/scholar. Someone in any teaching position shouldn't conduct themselves like that.
 
ARealConservative said:
you are wrong.

That's human nature. People act in their own self interest, including using power for their personal gain.
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This weasling out of your attack on cops due to your own guilty conscious is humoring the Good Reverend.


Do continue...... :lol:
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
There is a lot of grey that still needs to come forth, there is murmurs of a tape... lets wait and see, I don't think you and I would come to a consensus on this at this time.
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What will the tape show? That Gates was a complete douche bag? We already know that. I'm not contesting that Gates baited this cop and showed his ass, I'm saying the arrest was bad based upon a lack of evidence to support the crime Gates was arrested for.
Think about it. As a former LEO, If you came across a man who just busted down the door of a home, then refused to show you ID. Are you suggesting to me that he could not be arrested for failing to provide ID and breaking and entering?
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That isn't what happened though. Gates provided his I.D. Hypothetical scenarios don't apply here. But, if I encountered someone in the scenario you described, and I never got I.D. from them, I could arrest them on PC for burglary. However once it's determined that the "offender" was actually the homeowner, there is no crime. If he refused to identify, and there is an ordinance or statute that gives me power to arrest for that offense, then yes...I could arrest them. I'll remind you, none of the factors in your scenario were present in the Gates case.

And yes, eventually he did produce ID.... relucantly.... It could have legally gone much worse for this race baiter....
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According to the officer he produced it reluctantly. Gates says he produced it upon request. The bottom line was he produced it. No crime.
I disagree. I think it was textbook, maybe too textbook, but textbook none the less....
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Only if by textbook you mean leaving out pertinent facts and evidence necessary to make your charge stick.

My point about the college kid, is he still would be sitting in jail. ;)
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Maybe. The college kid might have a rich white daddy who has a lawyer who takes one look at the report and calls the DA and tells him "I'll hand you your ass in court and then I'll sue." And maybe the kid gets out with no charges dropped.

I spent many years as the cop and learned many lessons by working with the numerous prosecutors. I know report writing, I know case preparation. I did it for a living. I taught ethics, internal affairs, and case preparation at the police academy.

This report sucks. It's transparent. He didn't document nearly enough to make his case. A good cop doesn't go for PC and then stop. A good cop does his job, documents the evidence, and prepares his case for submission to the DA. A good cop will do a thorough job and not rely on his observation when he knows damn good and well he needs a victim to make a specific charge stick. In other words, he knows the statutes and the elements of those statutes that he is enforcing.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
This weasling out of your attack on cops due to your own guilty conscious is humoring the Good Reverend.


Do continue...... :lol:
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guilty conscious?

You are so full of **** "good reverend".

Most cops abuse their power. So do most politicians, and most anyody else that is given power.

Which is why I support a position that is in constant vigil of such abuse of power.

Not sure where your political stance comes from - lala land I suppose.
 
Lerxst said:
What will the tape show? That Gates was a complete douche bag? We already know that. I'm not contesting that Gates baited this cop and showed his ass, I'm saying the arrest was bad based upon a lack of evidence to support the crime Gates was arrested for.
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I dunno, I have seen many arrested for much less.... Though, I WAS at mardi gras :shrug:


that said, I think that the arrest probably was not something I would do, I have thick skin, However, I think that in this case, that if there is precedent in arrest, then there is really nothing in particular that can be said about the cop. Perhaps procedure should change, and I'd probably agree with you there, however, I think that, with this case, and standards procedure that seem to be being backed up up in Mass, that he did what they do...


That isn't what happened though. Gates provided his I.D. Hypothetical scenarios don't apply here. But, if I encountered someone in the scenario you described, and I never got I.D. from them, I could arrest them on PC for burglary. However once it's determined that the "offender" was actually the homeowner, there is no crime. If he refused to identify, and there is an ordinance or statute that gives me power to arrest for that offense, then yes...I could arrest them. I'll remind you, none of the factors in your scenario were present in the Gates case.
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He eventually showed his id... Could the officer had arrested him the 1st time he refused? Just questioning here.



According to the officer he produced it reluctantly. Gates says he produced it upon request. The bottom line was he produced it. No crime.
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Fair enough, What I am saying though that if there was a delay in producing, how long of a delay is acceptable before it becomes an arrestable offense?


Only if by textbook you mean leaving out pertinent facts and evidence necessary to make your charge stick.
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Nah, I think they could have taken that to court, especcially if it was not a big wig college professor....


Maybe. The college kid might have a rich white daddy who has a lawyer who takes one look at the report and calls the DA and tells him "I'll hand you your ass in court and then I'll sue." And maybe the kid gets out with no charges dropped.
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Naaaa, not at Havard, no way! :ssst:



I spent many years as the cop and learned many lessons by working with the numerous prosecutors. I know report writing, I know case preparation. I did it for a living. I taught ethics, internal affairs, and case preparation at the police academy.

This report sucks. It's transparent. He didn't document nearly enough to make his case. A good cop doesn't go for PC and then stop. A good cop does his job, documents the evidence, and prepares his case for submission to the DA. A good cop will do a thorough job and not rely on his observation when he knows damn good and well he needs a victim to make a specific charge stick. In other words, he knows the statutes and the elements of those statutes that he is enforcing.
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You have your opinion, and I see other cops on this sight have opposite views, so I think at this point its still wait and see....
 
Why did the cop not get testimony from the neighbors stating that Gates was disorderly?
 
tlmorg02 said:
Why did the cop not get testimony from the neighbors stating that Gates was disorderly?
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Because that is a bunch of crap made up by Lerxst.

Or its part of the rules of evidence in what was HIS jurisdiction when he was an LEO.

I know im not required to get statements from a member of the public for a stinkin' disorderly conduct charge in NC.
 
Caine said:
Yes, it does.

And personally I find it to be a personal attack, so cease with the personal attacks sir. :cool:
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Are you going to e-arrest him for disorderly conduct?!?!?!:lol:;)
 
ARealConservative said:
guilty conscious?

You are so full of **** "good reverend".
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I am sure ***** is "Greatness", thanks man, but the Good Reverend does not require tribute....


Most cops abuse their power. So do most politicians, and most anyody else that is given power.
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Prove this with any evidence. Please by all means, lets see you are not simply making emotional claims, based on your fear of 5-0 finding your stash...... :lol:



Which is why I support a position that is in constant vigil of such abuse of power.
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I have more "vigil" in practice and reality, than you could ever bloviate on the forums. You give Libertarians, such as my self, a bad name, you make us look like kooks.... /facepalm


Not sure where your political stance comes from - lala land I suppose.
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It comes from this thing called "common sense"........


Now, I am having a discussion with lerxst here and I am sympathetic to the whole arrest, though I see a legal justification for it, think it may not be the right thing here. That said. The man once he followed him out of his house, and into the street, became a public nusiance. that is the arguments.
 
Caine said:
Because that is a bunch of crap made up by Lerxst.

Or its part of the rules of evidence in what was HIS jurisdiction when he was an LEO.

I know im not required to get statements from a member of the public for a stinkin' disorderly conduct charge in NC.
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Honestly, as a cop, are you saying you've never used the disorderly conduct charge just to lock some asshole up, who pissed you off and nothing more?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
I am sure ***** is "Greatness", thanks man, but the Good Reverend does not require tribute....
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**** is a 4 letter word.

Prove this with any evidence. Please by all means, lets see you are not simply making emotional claims, based on your fear of 5-0 finding your stash...... :lol:
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I am not making a factual claim, I am stating an opinion.

I have more "vigil" in practice and reality, than you could ever bloviate on the forums. You give Libertarians, such as my self, a bad name, you make us look like kooks.... /facepalm
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the neocon thinks I give libertarians a bad name.

lol

The man once he followed him out of his house, and into the street, became a public nusiance. that is the arguments.
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your understanding of the facts are pathetic. He did not go on the street, he never left his property until he was arrested.
 
tlmorg02 said:
Honestly, as a cop, are you saying you've never used the disorderly conduct charge just to lock some asshole up, who pissed you off and nothing more?
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don't expect honesty from Caine....ever
 
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