Governor signs bills on guns, abortion

stevenb said:

Give them an inch, they'll take a mile. That's how it is with our government regardless of their leadership orientation.

They've proven this time and time again.. with conservatives in the office, and with liberals in the office.

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Right, like how RvW was argued based on medical necessity and now pro-choice has on-demand abortion for any or no reason at all.

If you think 24 hours is bad just wait until we have a national health care program where you have to wait months.

Blackdog said:

Lawless people carry guns into bars. So why shouldn't we let law abiding citizens do it?

I do agree that the bar owner has the right on his property to say no CC, but that is a completely different issue.

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Absolutely, it is the establishment's owner who decides on whether people can ccw in his place of business.

tlmorg02 said:

It is one thing for it to be done illegally and another for it to be condoned. It is never a good mix and is irresponsible. I own several guns, but you can bet your ass I am not going to allow my friends to come over and drink some beers and get them out.

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You seem to have this fixation on any ccw holder getting drunk for ****s and giggles in these establishments... even though it's illegal... gee.

Jerry said:

Right, like how RvW was argued based on medical necessity and now pro-choice has on-demand abortion for any or no reason at all.

If you think 24 hours is bad just wait until we have a national health care program where you have to wait months.

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I disagree with Roe Vs Wade as it puts the Federal Government on top as far as State Law should be concerned.

Regardless my point still stands about both parties and their grasps for power that they never let go of once they get it.

tlmorg02 said:

Yeah, I guess.:doh My main problem is, that if this blows-up and people begin getting killed, it is going to have a backlash on regular gun owners like myself. And rather than reducing legislation, there will be more. This is dumb.

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Like gay-marriage, other states are already doing it, and society didn't come crashing down for them.

Blackdog said:

#1 It is already illegal in most carry states to get drunk and carry.
#2 Criminals do not obey the law and carry guns into bars. So why should law abiding citizens be barred?
#3 People being killed in bars has been going on for years. Now the good guys can fight back.

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Fine, just watch and see, and when we have even more regulation down the road from such laws being passed and increased violence, there will be no one to blame.

The only hope is that bar owners ban CC on their premises.

Blackdog said:

Why would you expect your friends to come over, drink and pull guns out? This says more about the company you keep than any law.

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Because he's emotionally arguing... Much like the liberals tried when the sunset of the AWB happened.

Jerry said:

Like gay-marriage, other states are already doing it, and society didn't come crashing down for them.

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Gay marriage doesn't kill anyone. You need a better example.

tlmorg02 said:

Fine, just watch and see, and when we have even more regulation down the road from such laws being passed and increased violence, there will be no one to blame.

The only hope is that bar owners ban CC on their premises.

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You realize, that 34 other states have similar legislation, right? They've not had the apocalypse come to their doorstep.

stevenb said:

The party of liberty / freedom, and all they ****ing worry about is imposing their moral beliefs on society?

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This is such a tired and threadbare argument. It hardly rises to the level of abusurdity.

Almost all law represents the imposition of moral belliefs. This would include the laws protecting private property, enfourcing equal rights, restricting slander and outlawing other forms of murder.

Oftencold said:

This is such a tired and threadbare arument. It hardly rises to the level of abusurdity.

Almost all law represents the imposition of moral belliefs. This would include the laws protecting private property, enfourcing equal rights, restricting slander and outlawing other forms of murder.

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Protecting my property is protecting my right to life liberty and happiness.

Protecting people's rights, well look above.. You can't not have equal rights with the above.

Restricting slander, same look above.

Outlawing other forms of murder? Such as? Murder in general affects my rights to life liberty and happiness as well.

What's your point other than you have none? And yes, I know I used a double negative in there.

tlmorg02 said:

Fine, just watch and see, and when we have even more regulation down the road from such laws being passed and increased violence, there will be no one to blame.

The only hope is that bar owners ban CC on their premises.

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Then you will be waiting a long time as this has been legal in other states for awhile. Guess what? No bar room blood bathes because of CC holders.

tlmorg02 said:

Gay marriage doesn't kill anyone. You need a better example.

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No I don't.

The feared apocalyptic predictions did not occur in either case. The Slippery Slope did not happen.

You still can't get drunk while carrying. Depending on the city ordinance, I doubt you could even have a single beer while carrying.

Simply being in the building enjoying some hot-wings and shooting pool with some bros does not make your gun fly out of the holster and kill people.

stevenb said:

So, you believe that CCW holders are irresponsible?






Seriously? I disagree with people every day... That's perfectly fine... up until they encroach on our rights as an american citizen... Libs for their bull**** gun control, and repukes for their bull**** morality complexes they try and enforce on society.

Both are ****ing retarded, and both can't get the idea that more government isn't the solution. If you can't get that is what I'm getting at.. then you're lost.

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CCW holders are still human.

stevenb said:

Because he's emotionally arguing... Much like the liberals tried when the sunset of the AWB happened.

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I am not emotionally arguing anything. If you cannot see the potential problems that may arise from this, then I hope you are never in a position of responsibility. And again, I have never supported any type of gun control, even the AWB. I simply think there must be limits. And people may not intend to get drunk, but people can be having a good time, have a few, someone bumps into them, and everyone starts shooting.

Or perhaps, you are not drinking. But another guy is, he is big and drunk and mean and wants to kick your ass, and you know he can. How simple it would be to pull that gun out and shut his mouth. You can say this is fantasy or whatever, but this is irresponsible and if you have any sense at all, you realize that there is risk.

tlmorg02 said:

I am not emotionally arguing anything. If you cannot see the potential problems that may arise from this, then I hope you are never in a position of responsibility. And again, I have never supported any type of gun control, even the AWB. I simply think there must be limits. And people may not intend to get drunk, but people can be having a good time, have a few, someone bumps into them, and everyone starts shooting.

Or perhaps, you are not drinking. But another guy is, he is big and drunk and mean and wants to kick your ass, and you know he can. How simple it would be to pull that gun out and shut his mouth. You can say this is fantasy or whatever, but this is irresponsible and if you have any sense at all, you realize that there is risk.

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Real people aren't acting out your imaginings, though....at least not any more than they did while a ban was in place.

Blackdog said:

Then you will be waiting a long time as this has been legal in other states for awhile. Guess what? No bar room blood bathes because of CC holders.

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I hope not. But that one instance that occurs, I hope it is not a friend of mine or a family member that gets shot. I hope no one ever gets shot. But what I do know is that I would never put that risk into play in the first place. Just like I would not let my kid play in the street because no one has ever been hit on that street.

stevenb said:

Would I be wrong? I'm for constitutional rights, period. If you seek to impose limits, or waits, or restrictions upon constitutional rights.. you are in fact encroaching on our freedoms, are you not?

Lets try gay marriage, abortion... oh, and lets stick in hate crime legislation for the liberals.. we all know how you whiny conservatives are with "well they did this and that!"... They all encroach on our freedoms for their agenda... For the conservatives they're always trying to force their morals upon society... for the liberals their always trying to force their "fair" attitude upon society. Neither party is good... plain and simple.

You can disagree with me all you want until you start trying to take away my or fellow citizens rights. Hell I'll even stand up for your right to disagree with me... until you take action to infringe upon my rights.

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Thank you for ignoring all 3 of my points :doh

Jerry said:

Real people aren't acting out your imaginings, though....at least not any more than they did while a ban was in place.

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And I hope they never do. But it still does not make it smart legislation.

danarhea said:

CCW holders are still human.

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What's your point? If you can't be responsible in society, then you should be punished for your irresponsibility.. that's why we have jails, tickets, and fines.

You don't encourage responsibility by removing people's rights.

tlmorg02 said:

I am not emotionally arguing anything. If you cannot see the potential problems that may arise from this, then I hope you are never in a position of responsibility. And again, I have never supported any type of gun control, even the AWB. I simply think there must be limits. And people may not intend to get drunk, but people can be having a good time, have a few, someone bumps into them, and everyone starts shooting.

Or perhaps, you are not drinking. But another guy is, he is big and drunk and mean and wants to kick your ass, and you know he can. How simple it would be to pull that gun out and shut his mouth. You can say this is fantasy or whatever, but this is irresponsible and if you have any sense at all, you realize that there is risk.

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Sure you are, you've presented hypothetical and emotional evidence that is not supported by fact.

There are 34 other states that have the same laws, and there are no blood baths in their bars / restaurants. You're grasping for straws... because you have nothing to argue with.

The law states that people will not be allowed to drink, period. If they do drink while they're CCW'ing in an establishment, punish them for their crimes. Until then, you have no right to impose limits on my rights to carry a firearm for self defense of myself, my friends, my family, or other citizens.

Because of my training (to get my ccw card) I understand the laws of using lethal force to stop a threat... Being threatened about having my ass kicked doesn't give me the right to shoot someone... But.. again, nice hypothetical... it seems all you can afford to bring to the table.

Screw the democrats interfering with my medical well being, having doctors tell me what procedures I'm allowed to have and when, and having the government dictate how, when, and where I'm having my procedures being done! How dare those democratic assholes, don't they know only conservatives get to tell us that!

Seriously, if any conservative tries to go into a UHC thread and bitch about the slippery slope precent it presents I'm going to point to this thread, laugh in their face, and ignore them like the hypocrites they are. We can ignore the slippery slope in this case because hey, its abortion, and we hate abortion, so screw our other principles, grrrr....but if the DEM'S bring it up, WOOO BOOY, are we going to be whiny and bitchy then!

Dav said:

Thank you for ignoring all 3 of my points :doh

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*yawn* :roll:

tlmorg02 said:

And I hope they never do. But it still does not make it smart legislation.

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Since you aren't backing up anything you say and your paranoid delusions have been proven false in many other states, I've lost all respect for your position here.

You have no credibility on this issue. I strongly suggest going outside for some fresh air.

Zyphlin said:

Screw the democrats interfering with my medical well being, having doctors tell me what procedures I'm allowed to have and when, and having the government dictate how, when, and where I'm having my procedures being done! How dare those democratic assholes, don't they know only conservatives get to tell us that!

Seriously, if any conservative tries to go into a UHC thread and bitch about the slippery slope precent it presents I'm going to point to this thread, laugh in their face, and ignore them like the hypocrites they are. We can ignore the slippery slope in this case because hey, its abortion, and we hate abortion, so screw our other principles, grrrr....but if the DEM'S bring it up, WOOO BOOY, are we going to be whiny and bitchy then!

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It is a 24 hour waiting period and needing parental approval for minors in one state. If that is what the state wants then so be it. I think this is a state issue anyway.

I just don't see it as a big to do.

The law states that people will not be allowed to drink, period. If they do drink while they're CCW'ing in an establishment, punish them for their crimes. Until then, you have no right to impose limits on my rights to carry a firearm for self defense of myself, my friends, my family, or other citizens.

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Best argument that you have presented. I will back down, as it is true there are no stats that show an increase in bar room deaths. If the laws are enforced on the drinking and carrying then it should be fine. I just think it seems a little wreckless.

stevenb said:

Governor signs bills on guns, abortion

Seriously?

The party of liberty / freedom, and all they ****ing worry about is imposing their moral beliefs on society? Jesus ****ing christ. The repukes wonder why everyone hated them this last election cycle. blah.

This also gives doctors / pharmacists the right to deny you treatment / plan b (cause plan b is abortion)... alsdfkjasldfkjasdflkjasdflkjasdlfj ****ing idiot ass conservatives.


CCW in bars / restaurants is a great thing, hopefully now we'll not have anymore mass murders like in lubbock or liddy I can't remember Texas where a gunman went into a Luby's and opened fire. Keeping in mind that CCWers can't drink.. and well.. they have to have a legal CCW.. in the state.

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Well the minor thing, you always have to get parental consent to do any amount of surgery. Maybe they can make it with some way around in case someone wants to get an abortion and their parents don't want them to. That's the only thing I see as a bad possibility. But they are having a rather major medical practice performed, and for the vast majority of those things, that requires parental consent. I'm not too upset about that.

Doctors/Pharmacists the right to deny plan B is also dependant upon situation. I'm not so sure about the doctor part, but for private business I think a pharmacist can choose or not choose what they sell in their own store. Now I say if some guy owns a pharmacy and wants to sell Plan B, any pharmacist who works there has to sell it because it's no longer their store and they have to go with the wishes of the property owner. But for the property owner themselves, I think they should be free to make the decision for themselves. I think it's their right to sell or not carry any legal product they wish.

Concealed carry needs to be expanded and made easier. Quite honestly, I view open carry and concealed carry as the base situation. I don't see how the State can forbid either one as the individual has the right to to keep and bear arms. I would have long ago abolished most of the laws against open and conceal carry and the norm would be that if the property owner allows it on their property, even if that property is a bar, then you are allowed to carry your gun onto that property. Now this law can't force people to allow guns on their property. If a property owner, such as a bar owner, does not want to allow guns on their property, I think it is their right to deny that. You have to post that guns are not allowed on your property (this doesn't stop the property owner themselves from having guns mind you, just that other people can't bring their guns onto the owner's property), but the choice is up to the property owner.