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Dispute over flag protest erupts in Wisc. village

Scorpion89

Scorpion89

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Dispute over flag protest erupts in Wisc. village | Comcast.net

WAUSAU, Wis. — An American flag flown upside down as a protest in a northern Wisconsin village was seized by police before a Fourth of July parade and the businessman who flew it — an Iraq war veteran — claims the officers trespassed and stole his property. A day after the parade, police returned the flag and the man's protest — over a liquor license — continued.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin is considering legal action against the village of Crivitz for violating Vito Congine Jr.'s' First Amendment rights, Executive Director Chris Ahmuty said.

"It is not often that you see something this blatant," Ahmuty said.

In mid-June, Congine, 46, began flying the flag upside down — an accepted way to signal distress — outside the restaurant he wants to open in Crivitz, a village of about 1,000 people some 65 miles north of Green Bay.

He said his distress is likely bankruptcy because the village board refused to grant him a liquor license after he spent nearly $200,000 to buy and remodel a downtown building for an Italian supper club.

Congine's upside-down-flag represents distress to him; to others in town, it represents disrespect of the flag.

Hours before a Fourth of July parade, four police officers went to Congine's property and removed the flag under the advice of Marinette County District Attorney Allen Brey.

Great another Violation of 1st Adm. hmmm if it was me the mayor and the Police officer involve would be lossing their jobs very quickley.
 
I would say the defense is a good offense against the Village Idiots who denied the license by running for office and promising to do everything he can to have the police chief fired and also I would let the ACLU handle a law suit, even though I can't stand them.
This is not the only case that needs attention.
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Greensboro store flying flag upside down prompts angry complaints
Greensboro store flying flag upside down prompts angry complaints : News-Record.com : Greensboro & the Triad's most trusted source for local news and analysis

GREENSBORO - A hardware store on West Market Street flew the American flag upside down on Wednesday.

The store manager said it was partly in response to Election Day results, but the store owner called it a "silent protest that shouldn't have been done."

Darrell Chambers, who owns Ace Hardware at 5105 W. Market St., said he was off Wednesday, and the display had been put up without his knowledge.

He said the flag display ‘‘had nothing to do with the election results."
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In every case I believe those who complain about the prtests are less than intelligent and do not know why a flag can be flown upside down and in some cases should be.
 
An important piece of the puzzle is missing from the first flag incident in the OP. No mention of why he was denied. It sounds odd that someone would wait until they spent the money this guy did before he had a liquor licence in his hand. I would think that would be a top priority before construction.
 
It doesn't matter in the least if they consider it "disrespect of the flag"; disrespect of the First Amendment is the far more pertinent issue, which indicates a symbolism fetish rather than genuine consideration of the alleged ideals that the symbol is intended to represent (as so often noted), on the part of the violators.
 
tumbleweed said:
An important piece of the puzzle is missing from the first flag incident in the OP. No mention of why he was denied. It sounds odd that someone would wait until they spent the money this guy did before he had a liquor licence in his hand. I would think that would be a top priority before construction.
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I know from experience that to do the kind of work that would cost $200,000 a building permit is issued and the planning and zoning commission would be involved as well as the building Dept. and inspector. On major projects P & Z bring the item before Council for review and discussion and generally the license and it's requirements are discussed before the Council by the applicant and the chairperson of P & Z so there are no surprises.
Small town Politics are often more corrupt and in some cases more dangerous than most people could dream of with dirty deeds done dirt cheap behind the scenes. That could very well be what is at play here. And as I said the best way to fight back is from the inside.
 
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The 1st Amendment doesn't over-rule Federal law in this case. It's illegal to fly the flag upside-down, unless it's to signal an emergency. Not getting one's way in a licensing procedure isn't an emergency. They dhould have beat him with a rubber hose a little, because he's a vet and should show a little more maturity than your average bear.
 
apdst said:
The 1st Amendment doesn't over-rule Federal law in this case. It's illegal to fly the flag upside-down, unless it's to signal an emergency. Not getting one's way in a licensing procedure isn't an emergency. They dhould have beat him with a rubber hose a little, because he's a vet and should show a little more maturity than your average bear.
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that is absurd

Federal law can't trump a federal amendment
 
ARealConservative said:
that is absurd

Federal law can't trump a federal amendment
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Yes it can. Can you yell fire in a crowded building?

Was the guy in a bind and needed help, or was he just being pissy because he didn't get his liquor license? If he can't figure out how to run a resturant without a liquor license, then he probably doesn't need to be in the resturant business, anyway.
 
apdst said:
It's illegal to fly the flag upside-down, unless it's to signal an emergency. Not getting one's way in a licensing procedure isn't an emergency.
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First of all, the first amendment gives the owner of the flag the right to determine if it is an emergency or distree. You don't get to decide that for him.

Second of all Flag-Code is not enforced to everyday citizens.

Thirdly while I detest people desecrating the flag, it is their right to do as they wish with THEIR property.

Saying he should be beaten for exercising his first amendment rights is pathetic.
 
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TheNextEra said:
First of all, the first amendment gives the owner of the flag the right to determine if it is an emergency or distree. You don't get to decide that for him.

Second of all Flag-Code is not enforced to everyday citizens.

Thirdly while I detest people desecrating the flag, it is their right to do as they wish with THEIR property.

Saying he should be beaten for exercising his first amendment rights is pathetic.
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I'm saying he should be beaten because he's a former member of the United States armed services and he should know better. I don't expect someone like you to unerstand.
 
apdst said:
I'm saying he should be beaten because he's a former member of the United States armed services and he should know better. I don't expect someone like you to unerstand.
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I am retired Army, why wouldn't I understand. He shouldn't be beaten for exercising his first amendment rights.

I don't agree with flag desecration, but it his every right to and shouldn't be beaten for it.
 
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TheNextEra said:
I am retired Army, why wouldn't I understand. He shouldn't be beaten for exercising his first amendment rights.

I don't agree with flag desecration, but it his every right to and shouldn't be beaten for it.
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Thank you for your service.

Well, your Liberal politics must have clouded your thinking. Besides, my comment was more tongue-in-cheek than anything else, so relax.
 
The 1st Amendment doesn't over-rule Federal law in this case. It's illegal to fly the flag upside-down, unless it's to signal an emergency.
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In that case he should have just set it on fire.
 
tumbleweed said:
An important piece of the puzzle is missing from the first flag incident in the OP. No mention of why he was denied. It sounds odd that someone would wait until they spent the money this guy did before he had a liquor licence in his hand. I would think that would be a top priority before construction.
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I would tend to disagree. I don't really care why he was denied. I don't actually care a bit about his liquor license.

What I care about is that his rights were violated on the eve of of (irony of ironies) Independence Day, because the cops wanted the place to appeal to visitors.
 
apdst said:
The 1st Amendment doesn't over-rule Federal law in this case. It's illegal to fly the flag upside-down, unless it's to signal an emergency. Not getting one's way in a licensing procedure isn't an emergency. They dhould have beat him with a rubber hose a little, because he's a vet and should show a little more maturity than your average bear.
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Um, where Federal law and the Constitution disagree, the Constitution overrules Federal law in all cases.

Just saying.
 
apdst said:
Yes it can. Can you yell fire in a crowded building?
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No, because the Supreme Court issued an interpretation of the Constitution that said you can't. That's not the same thing as Federal law trumping the Constitution. :roll:

apdst said:
Was the guy in a bind and needed help, or was he just being pissy because he didn't get his liquor license? If he can't figure out how to run a resturant without a liquor license, then he probably doesn't need to be in the resturant business, anyway.
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Who cares why he did it? The why of it doesn't determine what he has a right to do.
 
apdst said:
I'm saying he should be beaten because he's a former member of the United States armed services and he should know better. I don't expect someone like you to unerstand.
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I guess it's a good thing you aren't in a position of authority, then.
 
apdst said:
Yes it can. Can you yell fire in a crowded building?
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yes. That is the best way to inform others that a fire has broken out.

But more importantly, if congress passes a law stating you can't yell fire, it doesn't trump the 1st amendment.

The reason some can get in trouble is because if you engage in fraud, and it harms people, you are responsible for the damage done.

This straw man in no way applies to the situation at hand. An upside down flag is not the bat signal, or like yelling fire in a theater.
 
There has to be more to this story.

I mean, how do you get denied a liquor liscence in Wisconsin? Seriously?
 
Scorpion89 said:
WAUSAU, Wis. — An American flag flown upside down as a protest in a northern Wisconsin village was seized by police before a Fourth of July parade and the businessman who flew it — an Iraq war veteran — claims the officers trespassed and stole his property. A day after the parade, police returned the flag and the man's protest — over a liquor license — continued.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin is considering legal action against the village of Crivitz for violating Vito Congine Jr.'s' First Amendment rights, Executive Director Chris Ahmuty said.
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He should sue. They clearly violated his First Amendment rights.

Considering the state of our country today, all American flags should be flown upside down.
 
WI Crippler said:
There has to be more to this story.

I mean, how do you get denied a liquor liscence in Wisconsin? Seriously?
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It's not terribly difficult:


    • You must be of legal drinking age (21).
    • You must have resided continuously in Wisconsin for at least 90 days prior to the application date.
    • You must have a seller's permit issued by the Department of Revenue. Call (608) 266-2776.
    • You must have completed a responsible beverage server training course. Call your local Vocational, Technical and Adult Education (VTAE) school, or see "Training" on the Department of Revenue web site.
    A criminal record may prevent you from getting a license, as explained below.
  2. Can I get a liquor license if I have a criminal record? That will largely be up to the municipality to determine. A criminal record is not an automatic bar to getting a license. The municipality must determine whether the violation is something related to the business of selling alcohol beverages. Violations such as selling liquor without a license, tax evasion, etc., are closely related to this business and might well be a bar to licensing. A record of auto theft may not. The municipality will weigh the nature of the violation, the time that has elapsed since the violation, the person's overall record in the community, etc., in making that determination.
Alcohol Beverage Laws for Retailers - License
 
It has been suggested that perhaps Congine was denied a liquor license because of a criminal record.

The board says it denied the request because of the economy and other concerns.
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Flag debate brings out Crivitz residents

Just figured I'd throw that out there.


With that said, even if the man gets his license and starts running his business the way he planned, it's looking like he's going to be short a whole lot of customers.
 
apdst said:
The 1st Amendment doesn't over-rule Federal law in this case. It's illegal to fly the flag upside-down, unless it's to signal an emergency. Not getting one's way in a licensing procedure isn't an emergency. They dhould have beat him with a rubber hose a little, because he's a vet and should show a little more maturity than your average bear.
Click to expand...

Incorrect, Federal Law does not usurp the 1st Amendment, though the 1st Amendment must be interpreted by the SCOTUS before nullifying federal law.

apdst said:
I'm saying he should be beaten because he's a former member of the United States armed services and he should know better. I don't expect someone like you to unerstand.
Click to expand...

It's rather paradoxical to say that symbols are more important than the principles they symbolize.
 
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