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Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

Urethra Franklin said:
Nobody advocated equal wages for doctors and burger bar workers.
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Neither did I.

The fact remains that a civilized society would want to encourage productive labor and higher education. Raising the minimum wage to a living wage accomplishes neither, and could well act as a deterrent to both. A great economy, would discourage a living wage particularly for non-productive jobs. My sister in law is working this summer at a resort. She gets paid minimum wage to sit at the door of a pool, and make sure that people are members or guests of the resort. She's not even a lifeguard. She mostly sits there and reads a book during her shift. What is it about her job that deserves a living wage?
 
WI Crippler said:
Neither did I.

The fact remains that a civilized society would want to encourage productive labor and higher education. Raising the minimum wage to a living wage accomplishes neither, and could well act as a deterrent to both. A great economy, would discourage a living wage particularly for non-productive jobs. My sister in law is working this summer at a resort. She gets paid minimum wage to sit at the door of a pool, and make sure that people are members or guests of the resort. She's not even a lifeguard. She mostly sits there and reads a book during her shift. What is it about her job that deserves a living wage?
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She's preventing theft, i.e. unauthorized, unpaid for use of the facilities. She's very useful indeed. Her employer could be more creative about training her in lifeguard skills, customer care skills etc.
 
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Urethra Franklin said:
She's preventing theft, i.e. unauthorized, unpaid for use of the facilities. She's very usefulm indeed. Her employer could be more creative about training her in lifeguard skills, customer care skills etc.
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So how much a year should she make, as a living wage, for her great contribuition to our society and her employer? is $30,000 a year enough? What if she has kids, should she get more since her living expenses will increase exponentially?
 
WI Crippler said:
So how much a year should she make, as a living wage, for her great contribuition to our society and her employer? is $30,000 a year enough? What if she has kids, should she get more since her living expenses will increase exponentially?
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She should not be paid a pittance. If she has kids she should be getting child benefit from the state, as in civilized nations.
 
Lets get some things straight here,

1. Just because you exist does not mean anyone owes you anything.

2. If you do not like the pay being offered by a prospective employer, don't work for them. it's that simple.

3. If you are 40 and still making minimum wage, it tells everyone a lot more about you than your employer. You are most likely a non achiever.

4. More education = more money.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Lets get some things straight here,

1. Just because you exist does not mean anyone owes you anything.

2. If you do not like the pay being offered by a prospective employer, don't work for them. it's that simple.

3. If you are 40 and still making minimum wage, it tells everyone a lot more about you than your employer. You are most likely a non achiever.

4. More education = more money.
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1. Children are our future. Civilized societies recognise this and give a helping hand to those who have children, their upkeep being very expensive indeed. It's called solidarity. I am childless by choice and I happily pay my taxes towards the child allowances my reproducing fellow citizens receive.

2. The alternative to inadequate pay for many is unemployment and even worse poverty.

3. I have the greatest respect for one of the cleaners where I work. She is about 50 and has always been a cleaner. She takes great pride in her work and does it very well, always with a smile. She didn't want ot need to study to become an astro-physicist. She does deserve enough money to live on. Thankfully she does her thankless job because somebody has to and we'd be stuffed if we couldn't fill her post.

4. But not to obscene differences. Keep the differential reasonable.
 
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Dav said:
If I read this article correctly, minimum wage in Britain isn't much higher than it is in the U.S.
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£5.80 - about 10 dollars an hour at current exchange rates (approaching 15 dollars before the pound recently crashed)

Unemployment wasn't affected (it has since been affected by bankers' greed and incompetence) and the world didn't end at the introduction of a minimum wage. Many families however, were lifted out of poverty.
 
Urethra Franklin said:
What their labour is worth is subjective. If you don't agree with the minimum limit set by the state, you're not forced to be an employer.
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That's a great way to lose entrepreneurs.
 
Urethra Franklin said:
Those jobs also need to be done by somebody since they are vital to society. That's why a decent minimum wage is an esssential of a civilised society.
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If a machine can do it then you probably need to train yourself for a better job.
 
Urethra Franklin said:
2. The alternative to inadequate pay for many is unemployment and even worse poverty.
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So instead of getting a job with low pay, people will instead not get paid and suck off the state via welfare! Great plan! Just what we need, more babies.

3. I have the greatest respect for one of the cleaners where I work. She is about 50 and has always been a cleaner. She takes great pride in her work and does it very well, always with a smile. She didn't want ot need to study to become an astro-physicist. She does deserve enough money to live on. Thankfully she does her thankless job because somebody has to and we'd be stuffed if we couldn't fill her post.
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Roomba does the same job and I only need to pay $100 once. Why is her job valuable again?

4. But not to obscene differences. Keep the differential reasonable.
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And of course you know what's reasonable and what's not.
 
phattonez said:
And of course you know what's reasonable and what's not.
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You've gotta love arbitrary economics, they only deal in emotion and "we think......" and don't require any actual business knowledge to back them up, just
"cause we say so and "we care". :roll:
 
Urethra Franklin said:
No, it's a great way to lose exploitative employers.
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Spare me, businesses have expenses, and the higher the minimum wages the higher the liabilities, everything goes up from overhead to tax burdens, all while budgets don't, that costs people jobs, the end.
 
phattonez said:
So instead of getting a job with low pay, people will instead not get paid and suck off the state via welfare! Great plan! Just what we need, more babies..
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Pay people a living wage and they will not need to fall back on the state. Let's stop all this crap about poor employers being bled dry. You take on the responsibility of employing people, you don't pay them charity wages.


phattonez said:
Roomba does the same job and I only need to pay $100 once. Why is her job valuable again?..
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I'm assumling Roomba is a robot?
Quality dear boy, and the human touch. Our cleaners are worth thousands of your robots.


phattonez said:
And of course you know what's reasonable and what's not.
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If on a full time wage you cannot afford to lodge yourself decently, to have adequate health care, to feed yourself and clothe yourself without hardship or resorting to a second and even third job, then your full-time wage is not reasonable. That in the same organisation the difference between the lowest and the highest wage can be a hundredfold is obscene.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Spare me, businesses have expenses, and the higher the minimum wages the higher the liabilities, everything goes up from overhead to tax burdens, all while budgets don't, that costs people jobs, the end.
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If businesses really can't survive without paying people poverty wages, you are essentially asserting that capitalism doesn't work.
 
Urethra Franklin said:
If businesses really can't survive without paying people poverty wages, you are essentially asserting that capitalism doesn't work.
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Don't know how you get to this particular conclusion. Capitalism is based on economic law, supply and demand, this does not exclude labor. When government mandates labors minimal value by social law it essentially invalidates the advantages of free market capitalism by assigning a value that is not in reality what some labor is worth.
Real world example here: I am contemplating starting a drum company in my home state and would love to make a superior product at a less than custom cost, and would love to have a team of people to drill-paint-and assemble the sets, assembling of the sets is the easist part, employee takes a screwdriver, puts the lug assembly into it's pre-drilled place, and screws it in. Is THAT worth 7/hr? No, it isn't as I can do about 10-20 myself without paying anything extra, sorry high school kid who wanted a fun job, I don't need you for what your value is assessed at, At worst I'll have a paint department and assign full assemblage duties to the driller, he will get less sets built in an hour by far, but, I only have to pay one employee past minimum wage and I am still saving money from an overpaid screwdriver jockey.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Don't know how you get to this particular conclusion. Capitalism is based on economic law, supply and demand, this does not exclude labor. When government mandates labors minimal value by social law it essentially invalidates the advantages of free market capitalism by assigning a value that is not in reality what some labor is worth.
Real world example here: I am contemplating starting a drum company in my home state and would love to make a superior product at a less than custom cost, and would love to have a team of people to drill-paint-and assemble the sets, assembling of the sets is the easist part, employee takes a screwdriver, puts the lug assembly into it's pre-drilled place, and screws it in. Is THAT worth 7/hr? No, it isn't as I can do about 10-20 myself without paying anything extra, sorry high school kid who wanted a fun job, I don't need you for what your value is assessed at, At worst I'll have a paint department and assign full assemblage duties to the driller, he will get less sets built in an hour by far, but, I only have to pay one employee past minimum wage and I am still saving money from an overpaid screwdriver jockey.
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You can't have cake and cream. You want to start a business but you can't afford to pay reasonable wages. You are basically saying that you need more labour than you can pay for. Conclusion: your business isn't really viable. And that's a shame, but it's the harsh reality of a system which actually doesn't work.
 
Urethra Franklin said:
You can't have cake and cream. You want to start a business but you can't afford to pay reasonable wages. You are basically saying that you need more labour than you can pay for. Conclusion: your business isn't really viable. And that's a shame, but it's the harsh reality of a system which actually doesn't work.
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Do you have your own business?
 
Urethra Franklin said:
You can't have cake and cream.
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Yes, you can, if you are the one taking the risk and putting your financial well being on the line.
You want to start a business but you can't afford to pay reasonable wages.
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Who said anything about can't, it's my business, thus my risk alone, this means creditors have to be paid, taxes and liabilities have to be met, materials have to be bought, and sales have to be made, all the while employees get paid whether I make a dime personally or not, sorry, it's not as simple as "if you can't afford to pay.......etc."
You are basically saying that you need more labour than you can pay for.
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No, I am saying that I need more labor for efficiency, but will settle for inefficiency to make a profit AND give the customer base a better price, so, if someone wants the screwdriver job, too bad, they are not worth what they would have to be paid.
Conclusion: your business isn't really viable. And that's a shame, but it's the harsh reality of a system which actually doesn't work.
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Please enlighten me with some actual economic fact instead of your opinion.
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