Panetta Admitted CIA Misled Congress Since 2001, Lawmakers Say

Bloomburg-Thu Jul 9, 12:00 am ET

Panetta Admitted CIA Misled Congress Since 2001, Lawmakers Say - Yahoo! News

Six Democrats on the U.S. House Intelligence Committee said that CIA Director Leon Panetta told lawmakers the agency had misled Congress since 2001 about “significant actions.”

In a letter to Panetta, the six legislators said he had “recently” testified that “top CIA officials have concealed significant actions from all members of Congress” and “misled members” from 2001 until this week.

The letter, released by the lawmakers yesterday, didn’t describe what Central Intelligence Agency actions were at issue.

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Nancy Pelosi is of course suggesting that this is confirmation that she told the truth about the CIA, though nowhere does the information released so far show any evidence of that, and probably won't due to the way the records of her meetings with the CIA where kept.

However, this is very big. I assume(some one who knows for sure please confirm or not) that the CIA lying to congress is probably criminal, certainly unethical. What was lied about, and who if any one ordered the lying are both big questions. I suspect there are going to be some serious investigations happen over this.

If the CIA really routinely misled congress during the past eight years as reports seem to indicate, I think that is very unfortunate and it sets quite a bad preceedence especially for strongmen in developing countries who, to begin with, dont want matters to do with intelligence services to be under the scrutiny of public representatives. Its really unfortunate some of the stuff said to have transpired under the G.W Bush era. First torture and now keeping intelligence activities secret from members of congress! What will the next bombshell be. Actions such as these are used by dictatorial elements in parts of the developing world as excuses for their own glaring misuses of power. And really, ones got to ask, who in the West can question them with revealations such as these from the USA. My solace, nonetheless, lies in Western democracys ability to perform self-introspection and rectify any deficiencies.

Not surprised in the least bit, in fact I have always assumed this to be the case. The CIA has such a sordid past, without very little reform throughout the years. Time after time they get caught with their hands in the cookie jar, or worse get caught sleeping when they should have been on watch. The CIA today is a far cry from the OSS days of Allen Dulles in WWII.

Just throwing this idea out there, but maybe it is time to give up the notion of simply expecting the CIA to work as it should, and look into creation of a new intelligence agency better equipped to handle this century.

In the midst of all the mud-slinging and finger pointing directed towards Speaker Pelosi, who has been calling for a 'truth' investigation and who has been content with the diversionary tactics?

Who thinks the CIA only lied to Congress?

According to any encyclopedia search of the CIA, they are directly responsible to the President and certain oversight committees of the Congress. However, there has been controversey all throughout the agencies existence in its lack of openness with Congress. Congressional oversight was stepped-up after the Vietnam War, and a few wanted to end the agency after it was learned that the agency had participated in assasinations and such. Is it illegal that they lied to Congress? Yes, but they have been doing it since they existed, so what do you do?

It should be noted that nothing is confirmed. Six Democrats claim that Panetta said this. I'd wait for confirmation to believe this.

How does Panetta like the view from underneath the bus?

Redress said:

Bloomburg-Thu Jul 9, 12:00 am ET

Panetta Admitted CIA Misled Congress Since 2001, Lawmakers Say - Yahoo! News

Nancy Pelosi is of course suggesting that this is confirmation that she told the truth about the CIA, though nowhere does the information released so far show any evidence of that, and probably won't due to the way the records of her meetings with the CIA where kept.

However, this is very big. I assume(some one who knows for sure please confirm or not) that the CIA lying to congress is probably criminal, certainly unethical. What was lied about, and who if any one ordered the lying are both big questions. I suspect there are going to be some serious investigations happen over this.

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The method in which this Bullschit story is being presented is astoundingly asinine.

Here is a copy of the ACTUAL letter which basically says:

"Dear Director Panetta, you recall, no doubt that on May 15, 2009, you stated the following in a letter to CIA employees:

'Let me be clear; it is not our policy to mislead Congress. That is against our laws and our values.'

Recently you testified that you have determined that top CIA officials have concealed significant actions from all Members of Congress, and misled Members for a number of years from 2001 to this week. This is similar to other deceptions of which we are aware from other recent periods.

In light of your testimony, we ask that you publicly correct your statement of May 15, 2009."

http://eshoo.house.gov/images/2009.06.26.panetta.pdf

But let us also see what Paneta’s spokesperson stated: ‘Little said in his statement that Panetta “stands by his May 15 statement” because “it is not the policy or practice of the CIA to mislead Congress.” Little also said, “Director Panetta’s actions back that up.” ‘

Well, once more we have a bunch of lunatic mentally challenged Democrats grandstanding in the fashion of little 3rd graders in their efforts to provide cover for Nancy Pelosi's lies and distortions that she wasn't "informed" about the "enhanced" interrogation methods used by the CIA on certain detainees.

What is fascinating about the level of stupidity with which Democrats in Congress are willing to stoop is that when they get caught in their own lies, innuendo, hyperbole and bullschit, they dig their holes even deeper by making farcical claims like this and making this memo public but NOT the "testimony" with which sparked this demand for an apology and correction.

One thing is certain when dealing with the 3rd grade mentality infesting the Democrats who now own Congress and the White House, they will not hesitate to throw their own under the bus if it suits their rabid and asinine agenda to impugn the previous administration for purely partisan political purposes.

Bravo Dems....I hope all the lemmings who voted for this are proud of the way they are now dragging their own through the political mud slinging and further makes American politics look like a 3rd world country. Soon, when they are done with their legislation, we will have a 3rd world economy to match this new 3rd world politics.

Yes folks, this is truly CHANGE we can all believe in. You just cannot fabricate the lunacy that infests the Congress, the Senate and the White House these days.

Let me see who are a few people in Congress I would not my wildest dreams ever trust with any sensitive information that if released could compromise the safety of Americans over seas or hurt the standing of our Country in the rest of the world? Let's start at the top. Barack Hussein Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Di Fi, Harry Reid, or just about anyone in the D column. They seem to have sworn an oath to do everything they can to hurt this Country in any way they can and the only thing they or any of their supporters care about is their party, and to hell with everything else or they wouldn't be bending over backwards to find fault in the past and would be looking to the future to improve things rather than tear them down and impose Socialist ideals in place of American values and ideas that are in line with the Constitution they all have have taken an oath to preserve protect and defend but have all violated in one way or another in action, or in spirit.
As was said before all we have to go on are the words of a few Dims (no spell error).

Why is it that Conservative hawks have learned nothing from the Roman Empire? If you guys had it your way the U.S. would fall in exactly the same manner as Rome.

Councilman said:

Let me see who are a few people in Congress I would not my wildest dreams ever trust with any sensitive information that if released could compromise the safety of Americans over seas or hurt the standing of our Country in the rest of the world? Let's start at the top. Barack Hussein Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Di Fi, Harry Reid, or just about anyone in the D column. They seem to have sworn an oath to do everything they can to hurt this Country in any way they can and the only thing they or any of their supporters care about is their party, and to hell with everything else or they wouldn't be bending over backwards to find fault in the past and would be looking to the future to improve things rather than tear them down and impose Socialist ideals in place of American values and ideas that are in line with the Constitution they all have have taken an oath to preserve protect and defend but have all violated in one way or another in action, or in spirit.
As was said before all we have to go on are the words of a few Dims (no spell error).

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Boy does this post ring true. It is really sad to watch the levels of political dialogue decend to the low levels the Libruls are dragging it.

But when you represent a political philosophy that cannot stand on its own, be supported by the facts or the historic record and which cannot be defended against other ideas, this is the low life level one is forced to go in order to avoid debating political philosophy but rather, impugn the character of your opponents with innuendo, hyperbole, lies and divisive partisan rhetoric.

tlmorg02 said:

Why is it that Conservative hawks have learned nothing from the Roman Empire? If you guys had it your way the U.S. would fall in exactly the same manner as Rome.

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I would ask what facts you have to support such obviously absurd comments; but I know that there aren't any. :roll:

The above is an example of the level of absurdity Liberals are willing to stoop in order to avoid any honest intellectual debate about political philosophy and economic policies that make sense. History and FACTS are not kind to Democrats and Liberals.

Truth Detector said:

I would ask what facts you have to support such obviously absurd comments; but I know that there aren't any. :roll:

The above is an example of the level of absurdity Liberals are willing to stoop in order to avoid any honest intellectual debate about political philosophy and economic policies that make sense. History and FACTS are not kind to Democrats and Liberals.

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Well, then allow us to discuss. What was the policies of Rome that led to it's demise? The most obvious is the spreading-out of the military into multiple areas of occupation. This can be compared to the initiation of the Iraq War, while still fighting in Afghanistan, as well as during this same period the call for military strike on Iran by many rightwing hawks. The U.S. still maintains bases in Japan, S. Korea, and even Germany for the love of God. Now, if a conflict arose with a real adversary like China, we would be very vulnerable to attack both militarily and economically.

We have become engaged in a great trading deficit with China, who buys up more and more of our country by the day, and even politicians liek Obama are stupid enough to continue the borrowing. This thread, for example, you and Councilman, both basically advocated keeping information away from Congress, just as the military of Rome did from the Senate. To take such a world stance, rather than focus on improving our own economy and securing our own borders leads to failure, when the enemy is eating you up on the inside-out, rather than from the outside-in. What we will see is the diminishing of the U.S. prowess on the world stage. Our policies have allowed China to grow to a giant economically, and partnered with Russia in the Shanghai Corporation Organization and ASEAN+3, militarily.

The U.S. has set it self up for a Roman style fall from grace.

tlmorg02 said:

Well, then allow us to discuss. What was the policies of Rome that led to it's demise? The most obvious is the spreading-out of the military into multiple areas of occupation. This can be compared to the initiation of the Iraq War, while still fighting in Afghanistan, as well as during this same period the call for military strike on Iran by many rightwing hawks.

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I see that you have difficulty distinguishing the domination over other countries to the liberation of countries from depots and dictators who threaten their neighbors and establishing self ruling Democracies in those liberated countries.

If you cannot make such an OBVIOUS and simple distinction, how can anyone take your absurdity serious?

tlmorg02 said:

The U.S. still maintains bases in Japan, S. Korea, and even Germany for the love of God. Now, if a conflict arose with a real adversary like China, we would be very vulnerable to attack both militarily and economically.

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The US maintains those bases at the invite of those nations, not because it conquered them and dominates them.

What does being vulnerable to Chinese attack have to do with your original absurd insinuations that we are like the Roman Empire?

tlmorg02 said:

We have become engaged in a great trading deficit with China, who buys up more and more of our country by the day, and even politicians liek Obama are stupid enough to continue the borrowing.

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What does a trade deficit with the Chinese have to do with your original absurd insinuations that we are like the Roman Empire?

tlmorg02 said:

This thread, for example, you and Councilman, both basically advocated keeping information away from Congress, just as the military of Rome did from the Senate.

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When did either of us advocate keeping information away from Congress? Please post it in your response and highlight the exact statements where this “avocation” occurred.

tlmorg02 said:

To take such a world stance, rather than focus on improving our own economy and securing our own borders leads to failure, when the enemy is eating you up on the inside-out, rather than from the outside-in. What we will see is the diminishing of the U.S. prowess on the world stage. Our policies have allowed China to grow to a giant economically, and partnered with Russia in the Shanghai Corporation Organization and ASEAN+3, militarily.

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What the above have to do with your original absurd insinuations that we are like the Roman Empire?

tlmorg02 said:

The U.S. has set it self up for a Roman style fall from grace.

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Again, nothing you have posted supports the absurd notion that we are like the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire never liberated numerous countries and provided them with the means to re-build their economies and develop civilized Democracies.

P.S. China is still a Communist third world country rife with poverty and pollution and the only reason it has any revenue is the exploitation of it’s citizens poverty like wages and pathetic pollution controls. The notion that China’s economy can even be remotely compared to the US economy is laughable at best.

Carry on. :roll:

tlmorg02 said:

Why is it that Conservative hawks have learned nothing from the Roman Empire? If you guys had it your way the U.S. would fall in exactly the same manner as Rome.

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Why haven't the Libbos learned anything from the gargantuous welfare state and taxation that existed in Rome?

apdst said:

Why haven't the Libbos learned anything from the gargantuous welfare state and taxation that existed in Rome?

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Why is your answer to every question an evasion?

Truth Detector said:

I see that you have difficulty distinguishing the domination over other countries to the liberation of countries from depots and dictators who threaten their neighbors and establishing self ruling Democracies in those liberated countries.

If you cannot make such an OBVIOUS and simple distinction, how can anyone take your absurdity serious?



The US maintains those bases at the invite of those nations, not because it conquered them and dominates them.

What does being vulnerable to Chinese attack have to do with your original absurd insinuations that we are like the Roman Empire?



What does a trade deficit with the Chinese have to do with your original absurd insinuations that we are like the Roman Empire?




When did either of us advocate keeping information away from Congress? Please post it in your response and highlight the exact statements where this “avocation” occurred.



What the above have to do with your original absurd insinuations that we are like the Roman Empire?



Again, nothing you have posted supports the absurd notion that we are like the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire never liberated numerous countries and provided them with the means to re-build their economies and develop civilized Democracies.

P.S. China is still a Communist third world country rife with poverty and pollution and the only reason it has any revenue is the exploitation of it’s citizens poverty like wages and pathetic pollution controls. The notion that China’s economy can even be remotely compared to the US economy is laughable at best.

Carry on. :roll:

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Arnold J. Toynbee and James Burke
In contrast with the "declining empire" theories, historians such as Arnold J. Toynbee and James Burke argue that the Roman Empire itself was a rotten system from its inception, and that the entire Imperial era was one of steady decay of institutions founded in Republican times. In their view, the Empire could never have lasted without radical reforms that no Emperor could implement. The Romans had no budgetary system and thus wasted whatever resources they had available. The economy of the Empire was basically a Raubwirtschaft or plunder economy based on looting existing resources rather than producing anything new.

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This seems much similar to our "interests" in the Middle East. "Drill baby drill!" If you will.

The Empire relied on booty from conquered territories (this source of revenue ending, of course, with the end of Roman territorial expansion) or on a pattern of tax collection that drove small-scale farmers into destitution (and onto a dole that required even more exactions upon those who could not escape taxation), or into dependency upon a landed élite exempt from taxation.

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The favorite tax code of the GOP. Tax the Middle Class heavily and reduce taxes on wealthy and corporations. "Trickle-Down," economics. Oh, and agricultural subsidies!

With the cessation of tribute from conquered territories, the full cost of their military machine had to be borne by the citizenry.

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Continuation of the defense economy we have in too many domestic bases, and the maintaining of those overseas. Let Japan and South Korea pay for their own military defense. And, there is absolutely no reason for a base to remain in Germany. Not to mention the fact that the U.S. spends more on military than all of Europe combined.

An economy based upon slave labor precluded a middle class with purchasing power. The Roman Empire produced few exportable goods. Material innovation, whether through entrepreneurialism or technological advancement, all but ended long before the final dissolution of the Empire.

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Do I need to draw you a picture for you to see the reference to China and the economy here!:doh

Meanwhile the costs of military defense and the pomp of Emperors continued. Financial needs continued to increase, but the means of meeting them steadily eroded. In the end due to economic failure, even the armor of soldiers deteriorated and the weaponry of soldiers became so obsolete to the extent that the enemies of the Empire had better armor and weapons as well as larger forces. The decrepit social order offered so little to its subjects that many saw the barbarian invasion as liberation from onerous obligations to the ruling class. By the late fifth century the barbarian conqueror Odoacer had no use for the formality of an Empire upon deposing Romulus Augustus and chose neither to assume the title of Emperor himself nor to select a puppet, although legally he kept the lands as a commander of the Eastern Empire and maintained the Roman institutions such as the consulship. The formal end of the Roman Empire corresponds with the time in which the Empire and the title Emperor no longer had value.

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Hmm, loss of jobs and no real growth....This does seem familiar.

Redress said:

Why is your answer to every question an evasion?

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You've got room to talk. I've yet to see you answer a real question, or support a comment since I've been here. All i see from you is a buncha bitchin' at other posters.

American said:

Who thinks the CIA only lied to Congress?

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The CIA does not lie. They may withhold certain information due to national securitty but lies- never. Well at least they don't lie to Americans just the enemy.

apdst said:

You've got room to talk. I've yet to see you answer a real question, or support a comment since I've been here. All i see from you is a buncha bitchin' at other posters.

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Guys you are both intelligent if diverse posters so why get personal ? Let's attack the opinion not the opionater.

F107HyperSabr said:

Guys you are both intelligent if diverse posters so why get personal ? Let's attack the opinion not the opionater.

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I'm not the one you need to convince.

tlmorg02 said:

This seems much similar to our "interests" in the Middle East. "Drill baby drill!" If you will.

The favorite tax code of the GOP. Tax the Middle Class heavily and reduce taxes on wealthy and corporations. "Trickle-Down," economics. Oh, and agricultural subsidies!

Continuation of the defense economy we have in too many domestic bases, and the maintaining of those overseas. Let Japan and South Korea pay for their own military defense. And, there is absolutely no reason for a base to remain in Germany. Not to mention the fact that the U.S. spends more on military than all of Europe combined.

Do I need to draw you a picture for you to see the reference to China and the economy here!:doh

Hmm, loss of jobs and no real growth....This does seem familiar.

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This is the best you bring to support the idiotic assertion that America is like the Roman Empire?

Dismissed; you are truly a waste of time. :roll:

Truth Detector said:

This is the best you bring to support the idiotic assertion that America is like the Roman Empire?

Dismissed; you are truly a waste of time. :roll:

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Seeing as you did not address any of the points with counterpoints, it would appear that rather than truthseeker, you are partisanseeker with nothing to back your rhetoric. If you are not going to debate, but make unsubstantiated claims against evidence presented, then hang in the basement, where such things are supposed to be.

tlmorg02 said:

Seeing as you did not address any of the points with counterpoints, it would appear that rather than truthseeker, you are partisanseeker with nothing to back your rhetoric. If you are not going to debate, but make unsubstantiated claims against evidence presented, then hang in the basement, where such things are supposed to be.

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It is impossible to respond to outright nonsense. It would just be a waste of time. Considering the effort I already made to illustrate how absurd your assertions were, your response wasn't even an attempt.

Carry on. :roll: