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US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Ratifica

apdst

apdst

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For the past 8 years we've been hearing, "the rule of law...the rule of law...the rule of law...", from the Libbos. I guess the Constitution really is just a, "goddamned piece of paper", afterall.


MOSCOW -- With the clock running out on a new US-Russian arms treaty before the previous Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, or START, expires on December 5, a senior White House official said Sunday said that the difficulty of the task might mean temporarily bypassing the Senate’s constitutional role in ratifying treaties by enforcing certain aspects of a new deal on an executive levels and a “provisional basis” until the Senate ratifies the treaty.

US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Ratification for Treaty - Political Punch
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Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

How are they going to get away with doing that. Isnt that something the supreme court should not allow. It is crap like this that makes me really really nervous. If they can just ignore the constitution on an issue like this than why not on anything else.
 
Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

Total BS, it's not the Law of the Land until the Senate ratifies it.
 
Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

Article II, section 2: He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur;
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The President can sign provisional treaties until the Senate ratifies or votes down the agreement. This is not outside of the executive powers and has been done my many presidents. What one should be upset about is the fact that for the last 60 years or so, until 2004, I think it was, Fast-Track power was given to the President, which essentially amounted to the Senate giving-up it's Constitutional powers.
 
Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

Yeah, blowing off the constitution and doing whatever the Hel you want... thats TOTALLY a leftist policy!

Where did they EVER get that idea?

HAVE YOU LIVED IN THIS COUNTRY FOR THE LAST SEVEN YEARS?
 
Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

Sturmrabe said:
Yeah, blowing off the constitution and doing whatever the Hel you want... thats TOTALLY a leftist policy!

Where did they EVER get that idea?

HAVE YOU LIVED IN THIS COUNTRY FOR THE LAST SEVEN YEARS?
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So, since Bush did it, it's ok?
 
Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

Sturmrabe said:
Yeah, blowing off the constitution and doing whatever the Hel you want... thats TOTALLY a leftist policy!

Where did they EVER get that idea?

HAVE YOU LIVED IN THIS COUNTRY FOR THE LAST SEVEN YEARS?
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I am afraid you are quite wrong.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/congress/treaties_senate_role.pdf

International agreements
not submitted to the Senate are known as ‘‘executive agreements’’
in the United States, but they are considered treaties and
therefore binding under international law.
For various reasons, Presidents have increasingly concluded executive
agreements. Many agreements are previously authorized or
specifically approved by legislation, and such ‘‘congressionalexecutive’’
or statutory agreements have been treated almost interchangeably
with treaties in several important court cases. Others,
often referred to as ‘‘sole executive agreements,’’ are made pursuant
to inherent powers claimed by the President under Article II
of the Constitution. Neither the Senate nor the Congress as a
whole is involved in concluding sole executive agreements, and
their status in domestic law is not fully resolved.
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Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

apdst said:
So, since Bush did it, it's ok?
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The point is that the idea is no way shocking or even really that big of deal, so they push it through then get it ratified later...

Meh... then they start sh**ting on due process, habius corpus, torturing people, and hiring/firing the judiciary on EGREGIOUSLY politcal terms, THEN its time to get upset...

Oh but wait, just be cause it was Republicans wiping their ass with the constitution it was awwwwlright?

Its not like anything you agree to with these assholes in moscow is worth the paper its written on anyway.
 
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Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

apdst said:
For the past 8 years we've been hearing, "the rule of law...the rule of law...the rule of law...", from the Libbos. I guess the Constitution really is just a, "goddamned piece of paper", afterall.
Click to expand...

Yes you did and not a peep from conservatives. Now that Obama is doing similar things all of a sudden it's worth speaking out against? Why weren't conservatives this vocal when Bush was doing these things?
 
Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

Gibberish said:
Yes you did and not a peep from conservatives. Now that Obama is doing similar things all of a sudden it's worth speaking out against? Why weren't conservatives this vocal when Bush was doing these things?
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What is he doing? It is in the purview of the President to do such things. There is a clear precident and legal justification.
 
Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

braindrain said:
How are they going to get away with doing that. Isnt that something the supreme court should not allow.
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Easy.

The Messiah is infallible.

All bow to the Holy Messiah, and kiss your own asses good-bye.

====

Fortunately, it's 2/3 vote, meaning they need 67 votes in the Senate, and given what I saw the Messiah mumbling about this morning, there's a good chance the Evil Republicans can still protect the country.
 
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Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

tlmorg02 said:
The President can sign provisional treaties until the Senate ratifies or votes down the agreement. This is not outside of the executive powers and has been done my many presidents. What one should be upset about is the fact that for the last 60 years or so, until 2004, I think it was, Fast-Track power was given to the President, which essentially amounted to the Senate giving-up it's Constitutional powers.
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Yep. The Messiah can sing all the treaties he likes.

If they're not ratified they have absolutely no legal standing.

Fast track power is a different matter. Last time I checked, The Messiah hasn't been authorized to Fast Track US surrender. It won't stop him, of course, but he's not authorized to do it.
 
Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Yep. The Messiah can sing all the treaties he likes.

If they're not ratified they have absolutely no legal standing.

Fast track power is a different matter. Last time I checked, The Messiah hasn't been authorized to Fast Track US surrender. It won't stop him, of course, but he's not authorized to do it.
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No he does not have Fast Track authority. Why do you consider this treaty a surrender?
 
Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

tlmorg02 said:
No he does not have Fast Track authority. Why do you consider this treaty a surrender?
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Let's see.....The Messiah is trying to get an agreement to FURTHER reduce the one deterrent we have that fended off the Soviet bear, our nuclear stockpile, and he's also insisting, from immense ignorance, that ABM systems are for regional rogue nations, not a good buddy like the former KGB folks.

That's "surrender" in anyone's book, that can read.

The United States, contrary to the popular belief of the fools that voted for The Messiah, does not have a history of oppression to compare with what their friends in Russia have shown over the last century.

The Russians have done nothing to earn trust, and their attempted theft of Georgia last summer is clear indication of their aspirations.

That callow Messiah of yours was accepting placidly, while looking calmly down his nose, as he always does, statements from the Russians about their concern about Iranian nuclear ambitions.

The Russians have been HELPING the Ayatollahs build their bombs.

Duh.

The Messiah is a fool, and no treaty signed by him should be ratified, ever.
 
Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Let's see.....The Messiah is trying to get an agreement to FURTHER reduce the one deterrent we have that fended off the Soviet bear, our nuclear stockpile, and he's also insisting, from immense ignorance, that ABM systems are for regional rogue nations, not a good buddy like the former KGB folks.

That's "surrender" in anyone's book, that can read.

The United States, contrary to the popular belief of the fools that voted for The Messiah, does not have a history of oppression to compare with what their friends in Russia have shown over the last century.

The Russians have done nothing to earn trust, and their attempted theft of Georgia last summer is clear indication of their aspirations.

That callow Messiah of yours was accepting placidly, while looking calmly down his nose, as he always does, statements from the Russians about their concern about Iranian nuclear ambitions.

The Russians have been HELPING the Ayatollahs build their bombs.

Duh.

The Messiah is a fool, and no treaty signed by him should be ratified, ever.
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If you would leave the partisan antics off, you would actually have very good arguments.

However, I do not think a ballistic missile shield on the border with Russia would do anything but create more troubles. Russia is not going to attack the U.S. We have, as well as Israel, the capabilities to turn Iran to dust if they were to launch an attack elsewhere.

Russia has very well sold Iran nuclear technology for energy. Russia offered to sell them the enriched uranium, that would help Iran's claim that they were not seeking weaponry, however Iran refused. Russia wants to be apart of the missile shield, not feel like a target.

Tell me, what good would come of another Cold War, when the U.S. is suffering a recession?
 
Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

Gibberish said:
Yes you did and not a peep from conservatives. Now that Obama is doing similar things all of a sudden it's worth speaking out against? Why weren't conservatives this vocal when Bush was doing these things?
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What treaty did President Bush sign then act as though it had the force of law without Senate approval?
 
Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

What are the provisions of the treaty? If Obama is taking actions that he does not currently have the authority to take he should just wait for the treaty to pass the senate. On the other hand if it's things like "reduce arms" Obama can carry out that action unilaterally anyway, we just won't be a party to the treaty until it gets ratified.
 
Re: US-Russian Arms Negotiators "Under the Gun," Might Temporarily Bypass Senate Rati

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
there's a good chance the Evil Republicans can still protect the country.
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But who is going to protect us from THEM?
 
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