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Panel Recommends Ban on 2 Popular Painkillers

hiswoman said:
Did you know your friend's entire medical history? Hold old was he/she? Did he/she drink alcohol? Possibly have Hepatitis (which may or may not have been disclosed to you)? Any other metabolic issues? What other medications was he/she taking at the time? Did you witness exactly how much medication he/she took over that period of time? For that matter, did you witness every single medication taken by him/her during that time? There are any number of factors involved for each person. People's reactions can vary greatly even if they're taking the same identical medication. Doubling up on any medication is foolhardy, unless under your physician's supervision. The label warnings are there for a reason.
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First of all I neither time nor the patience to answer your questions. You know that acetaminophen is not nearly as safe as the rest of the people here are saying it is. The dangers of acetaminophen for a long time have been understated and not much attention has been given to it over the years compared to other, less dangerous drugs. Nor did I ever agree with, condone, support doubling up on medication. Seriously, you're speaking to me like I've never picked up a book before.
 
Liz Peeps said:
The whole goddamn point is that it's very to take too much without realizing it and by the time you know it's too late. It's the leading cause of liver damage. It's not nearly as safe as you're making it out to be.
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Shouldn't the whole goddamn point be that medicines should always be taken as directed?
Tylenol.com
Directions
Do not take more than directed
With Rapid Blast liquid: use only enclosed measuring cup designed for this product.

Adults & Children 12 years and over:


  • Take 2 tablets, caplets, geltabs or tablespoons every 4 to 6 hours as needed.
  • Do not take more than 8 tablets, caplets, geltabs or tablespoons in 24 hours.
  • Do not take for more than 10 days unless directed by a doctor.

Children under 12 years
Do not use adult Extra Strength product in children under 12 years of age; this will provide more than the recommended dose (overdose) of Tylenol and may cause liver damage.
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Liz Peeps said:
And by the way you're dreaming if you think I'm going to take the time to read your sources.
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Argumentum ad ignorantium is passé at best, ludicrous likely, and bad form in all cases.
 
hiswoman said:

edited: As CL mentioned, allergic reactions are also a possibility any time you take a medication.

P.S. My condolences on the loss of your friend.
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I don't ****ing care. I'm just ****ing sick of everyone thinking it's just some safe drug, and when pointed out that it actually is pretty dangerous, people say "well any drug is dangerous if you take more than you're supposed to". Well obviously. If I take five times my prescribed dose for hydrocodone I will be just fine, but five times the dose for acetaminophen? I don't know, I wouldn't want to risk it.
 
Liz Peeps said:
First of all I neither time nor the patience to answer your questions. You know that acetaminophen is not nearly as safe as the rest of the people here are saying it is. The dangers of acetaminophen for a long time have been understated and not much attention has been given to it over the years compared to other, less dangerous drugs. Nor did I ever agree with, condone, support doubling up on medication. Seriously, you're speaking to me like I've never picked up a book before.
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Seriously, that's not my intent. I am only attempting to point out how there are possibly factors of which you may not be aware that may have contributed to your friend's death. No offense was intended.
 
celticlord said:
Shouldn't the whole goddamn point be that medicines should always be taken as directed?
Tylenol.com

Argumentum ad ignorantium is passé at best, ludicrous likely, and bad form in all cases.
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If you want to scratch this one up for a win yourself fine. Truth is I don't really care much about medicine anymore these days, it's past midnight, and neither of you are particularly worthy of my time to go get my books out and read them to you. Expect to see more in the future about the dangers of acetaminophen.
 
celticlord said:
Now why would anyone do that?:mrgreen:
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I have had so many arguments over the years about the pharmacology of different drugs to know that when it gets to citation posting war you really have to make a decision to commit to the argue and carry it on to win it, or just walk away because the arguments will basically boil down to personal opinions. And medicine is something I just don't have a passion for anymore.

So if you want to sit here and say how awesome and safe acetaminophen is, go ahead, but my responses in this thread will limited only to responses people give directly to me.
 
Liz Peeps said:
If you want to scratch this one up for a win yourself fine. Truth is I don't really care much about medicine anymore these days, it's past midnight, and neither of you are particularly worthy of my time to go get my books out and read them to you. Expect to see more in the future about the dangers of acetaminophen.
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Translation: I can't think of any valid argument to support my claims, but my ego won't allow me to admit defeat so I am going to try to look superior, and downplay my inability to back up my arguments by being sarcastic and pretending like my lack of knowledge is due to a loss of interest.
 
Liz Peeps said:
I don't ****ing care. I'm just ****ing sick of everyone thinking it's just some safe drug, and when pointed out that it actually is pretty dangerous, people say "well any drug is dangerous if you take more than you're supposed to". Well obviously. If I take five times my prescribed dose for hydrocodone I will be just fine, but five times the dose for acetaminophen? I don't know, I wouldn't want to risk it.
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Trust me. I fully understand your frustration :doh. No drug is without risk. None. People need to pay attention and take responsibility for their health and well being. I'm saying it isn't the government's place to protect us like we're all a bunch of toddlers running around.
 
wbreese91 said:
Translation: I can't think of any valid argument to support my claims, but my ego won't allow me to admit defeat so I am going to try to look superior, and downplay my inability to back up my arguments by being sarcastic and pretending like my lack of knowledge is due to a loss of interest.
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I'm tired man, and even if I did go brew a cup of coffee, crack open the books and go to town, what difference does it make?
 
hiswoman said:
Trust me. I fully understand your frustration :doh. No drug is without risk. None. People need to pay attention and take responsibility for their health and well being. I'm saying it isn't the government's place to protect us like we're all a bunch of toddlers running around.
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Thank you, you are pretty much the only person in this entire thread whom I believe understands what I'm talking about and can actually have a disagreeing opinion without saying I'm just totally wrong and that I must be living on mars because haven't you heard just how amazingly safe acetaminophen is *posts 20 pages of sources in medical journals that i'd only be able to view the abstract for maybe 10% of the sources without paying*

and yeah your attitude did suck earlier
 
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Look. I did my own research on this. Acetaminophen can certainly be dangerous and it's therapeutic index is close to it's toxicity level. Liver toxicity is certainly a possibility and does happen in some cases. According to the research I read, there were 450 deaths from acetaminophen overdoes, last year. This includes both accidental and intentional. Consider that there were 22,500 intentional and accidental drug overdoses from all prescription drugs during that year, and you can see that acetaminophen accounts for only 2% of these deaths (sedatives like Valium account for 7%, while opioids on their own account for 39%). This does not negate the potential danger of acetaminophen, but it does need to be put into perspective. Also to be considered, is the fact that acetaminophen is far safer in many ways to aspirin and ibuprofen in regards to all GI issues, kidney issues, and has a lack of problem with drug interactions. All these things show that acetaminophen has risks, but is comparatively, is relatively safe.

Also, as far as overdoses go, I've seen more than 100 patients of mine attempt to overdoes on Tylenol over the past 20 years, folks having taken as much as 10 times the recommended dose. No deaths and no liver toxicity in all of those times. Though I see the risks, evidence-wise, observationally, I have no seen the same outcomes.

Links used in this post:

Acetaminophen - New World Encyclopedia
Trends in Unintentional Drug Overdose Deaths
 
RightinNYC said:
There are actual medical reasons for using acetaminophen in conjunction with those drugs other than to deter abuse.
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Any you know this how?

Do you have a medical degree?
 
It's a wonder I'm alive at all!

Gotta talk to my doctor.

Hydrocodone is just generic Vicodine.
 
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Liz Peeps said:
The whole goddamn point is that it's very to take too much without realizing it and by the time you know it's too late. It's the leading cause of liver damage. It's not nearly as safe as you're making it out to be.
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Nor is it as dangerous as you're making it out to be, doctor.

And by the way you're dreaming if you think I'm going to take the time to read your sources.
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The sad part is that I already knew that.
 
Vader said:
Any you know this how?

Do you have a medical degree?
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I asked someone who does.

Also, I'm not a retard and thus I can read teh google and find out facts.

sazerac said:
It's a wonder I'm alive at all!

Gotta talk to my doctor.

Hydrocodone is just generic Vicodine.
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No it's not.

Hydrocodone = hydrocodone
Vicodin = hydrocodone + acetaminophen
 
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RightinNYC said:
So because some people abuse something, the best solution is to deny the benefits of that drug to all those who use it responsibly and instead to just give everyone a more potent version of the drug with an even greater potential for abuse?
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Exactly. I've been taking vicodin for years.....and I'm still alive.

Sometimes I go a couple of months without taking one......other times I take a half or whole pill every day for a week or two.....just depends on my pain level.

Thanks for posting this. I had no idea.
 
missypea said:
I'm confused about the terms you're using. My rx says hydrocodone but it also says 5/500....which is vicodin, correct?

If they got rid of the acetaminophen in it, the hydrocodone itself would still allowed?

:confused:
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Yes, acetaminophen (Tylenol) is the problem, not the opiates. That's the 5 part out of 500. Vicodin is a brand name.

Tylenol was lauded for the way they handled the tampering scare years ago. I don't think they'll survive this time no matter how they handle it.
 
sazerac said:
Yes, acetaminophen (Tylenol) is the problem, not the opiates. That's the 5 part out of 500. Vicodin is a brand name.

Tylenol was lauded for the way they handled the tampering scare years ago. I don't think they'll survive this time no matter how they handle it.
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If they aren't banning hydrocodone but removing the Tylenol that is in it, I don't see the big deal.

Are they thinking of banning Tylenol altogether? And what's wrong with Ibuprofen anyway?

:shrug:
 
RightinNYC said:
There are actual medical reasons for using acetaminophen in conjunction with those drugs other than to deter abuse.
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I'm prescribed two different types of medicines all the time. It really wouldn't be hard to give instructions to take an over the counter acetaminophen.
 
RightinNYC said:
For some reason I have a difficult time believing that you're a physician.
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heh. I'm still skeptical about your knowledge of the law, Mr. apologist.
 
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