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Panel Recommends Ban on 2 Popular Painkillers

What, are you crazy? You think people would actually mix drugs without their doctor's advice in order to achieve a desired feeling?

Pshhh, everyone knows that nobody would ever dream of mixing vicodin or percocet with other drugs such as alcohol or marijuana in order to feel a particular way. That's just crazy talk. :lol:

Which is precisely why it's such a bad drug to add to opiates. People WILL abuse the drugs and acetaminophen can be very unforgiving when taken in doses as small as two grams. That's only TWICE dosage recommended.
 
Jesus christ, what is it with you people. Where did I say it was marketed for severe pain? You guys seriously know jack **** about pharmacology and it's almost like you want to argue even if you're not really arguing about anything at all.

Whatever you say, Dr. Peeps :roll:

You are the one who made reference to a serious injury.

Ladies & Gentlemen of the Jury, I give you People's Exhibit A:

Originally Posted by Liz Peeps
It's more effective at reducing fevers than it is for pain. Next time you suffer a serious injury take some tylenol and let me know how much better you feel and how completely manageable the pain is.

When you make reference to a "serious injury", that would imply a "severe" level of pain, as severe pain is often associated with "serious injuries"
 
What, are you crazy? You think people would actually mix drugs without their doctor's advice in order to achieve a desired feeling?

Pshhh, everyone knows that nobody would ever dream of mixing vicodin or percocet with other drugs such as alcohol or marijuana in order to feel a particular way. That's just crazy talk. :lol:

I know. What are the odds, right? :2razz:
 
Yeah, when I prescribe opiate pain killers I always make it either contains ibuprofen if they need additional short term help for pain management or no other analgesic. Acetaminophen only has a minimal role the treatments that I prescribe.

Yes actually, you?

For some reason I have a difficult time believing that you're a physician.

I do understand, I just do not feel the small benefits are necessarily worth the added risk in the event that the medication IS abused.

Based on...?

They are far safer than acetaminophen.


lolwut
 
Whatever you say, Dr. Peeps :roll:

You are the one who made reference to a serious injury.

Ladies & Gentlemen of the Jury, I give you People's Exhibit A:



When you make reference to a "serious injury", that would imply a "severe" level of pain, as severe pain is often associated with "serious injuries"

The point is that acetaminophen's added benefits combined with opiates do not outweigh the possible dangers. People have died from liver failure induced by acetaminophen at only twice the recommended dose. If you take twice or even three times the recommended dose for vicodin you'll be loopy and messed up and maybe even unconscious, but your liver be destroyed by it. Why do you think so many more people die from acetaminophen every than opiates?
 
Which is precisely why it's such a bad drug to add to opiates. People WILL abuse the drugs and acetaminophen can be very unforgiving when taken in doses as small as two grams. That's only TWICE dosage recommended.

So because some people abuse something, the best solution is to deny the benefits of that drug to all those who use it responsibly and instead to just give everyone a more potent version of the drug with an even greater potential for abuse?

Doesn't seem very libertarian-y of you.
 

"lolwut" What? Either say what you mean to say in your argument and get your ****ing little 4chan memes out of here. You see exactly what I said there and yeah, I stand by it. Acetaminophen can induce lever failure at doses very close to the recommended dose.
 
Which is precisely why it's such a bad drug to add to opiates. People WILL abuse the drugs and acetaminophen can be very unforgiving when taken in doses as small as two grams. That's only TWICE dosage recommended.

Two grams is not a "small dose" of any medication.

The dose of acetaminophen in Extra Strength Tylenol is 500mg.
Tylenol.com

The maximum daily dose for adults of acetaminophen is 4000mg (4g).

Tylenol Extra Strength (acetaminophen) medical facts from Drugs.com
 
So because some people abuse something, the best solution is to deny the benefits of that drug to all those who use it responsibly and instead to just give everyone a more potent version of the drug with an even greater potential for abuse?

Doesn't seem very libertarian-y of you.

First of all, if someone wants to abuse those pain killers, there is nothing stopping them. But if they don't know what they're doing it is very easy for someone to end up suffering an excruciatingly painful and slow death because the doses for damaging the liver can occur at doses even just TWICE the recommended dose. And being a libertarian has nothing to do with pharmacology.
 
"lolwut" What? Either say what you mean to say in your argument and get your ****ing little 4chan memes out of here. You see exactly what I said there and yeah, I stand by it. Acetaminophen can induce lever failure at doses very close to the recommended dose.

Man, and I have to double up on that stuff just to see when the pollen is out :(
 
Two grams is not a "small dose" of any medication.

The dose of acetaminophen in Extra Strength Tylenol is 500mg.
Tylenol.com

The maximum daily dose for adults of acetaminophen is 4000mg (4g).

Tylenol Extra Strength (acetaminophen) medical facts from Drugs.com

Two grams is a small dose for inducing lethal effects in medicine, yes. What other drugs are going to kill you if you take double the dose?

From your link, they say take two 500mg pills. 500mg is half a gram. If you take two of them like the label says, that one gram. People can suffer serious injuries or even death at doses as low as two grams. That's double the recommended dose.
 
Yeah, when I prescribe opiate pain killers I always make it either contains ibuprofen if they need additional short term help for pain management or no other analgesic. Acetaminophen only has a minimal role the treatments that I prescribe.
You prescribe ibuprofen for osteoarthritis?

Ibuprofen May Boost Chance Of Heart Problems In High Risk Patients With Osteoarthritis

Or for broken bones?

Painkillers may prevent broken bones healing - 05 June 2002 - New Scientist

NSAIDs inhibit bone healing - The Boston Globe
 
Acetaminophen is something you'd want for a fever not for pain. Take some tylenol the next time you break a bone and see how well it works.

Acetaminophen is an excellent pain reliever for light pain such as headaches and backaches, and is good for folks who can't take aspirin or ibuprofen because of GI problems.
 
Two grams is a small dose for inducing lethal effects in medicine, yes. What other drugs are going to kill you if you take double the dose?

From your link, they say take two 500mg pills. 500mg is half a gram. If you take two of them like the label says, that one gram. People can suffer serious injuries or even death at doses as low as two grams. That's double the recommended dose.

Really?

In adults, single doses above 10 grams or 200 mg/kg of bodyweight, whichever is lower, have a reasonable likelihood of causing toxicity.[1][2] Toxicity can also occur when multiple smaller doses within 24 hours exceeds these levels.[2] Following a normal dose of 1 gram of paracetamol four times a day, one-third of patients may have a minor increase in their liver function tests to three times the normal value.[3] It is unlikely that this dose would lead to liver failure.[4] Studies have shown significant hepatotoxicity is uncommon in patients who have taken greater than normal doses over 3 to 4 days.[5] In adults, a dose of 6 grams a day over the preceding 48 hours could potentially lead to toxicity

2 grams =/= 10 grams.
 
The point is that acetaminophen's added benefits combined with opiates do not outweigh the possible dangers. People have died from liver failure induced by acetaminophen at only twice the recommended dose. If you take twice or even three times the recommended dose for vicodin you'll be loopy and messed up and maybe even unconscious, but your liver be destroyed by it. Why do you think so many more people die from acetaminophen every than opiates?

You are correct. The potential side effects and dangers of acetaminophen are NOT to be ignored, and the risk is elevated the higher the single dosage taken. The maximum recommended dose of acetaminophen is 1000 mg. (1 gram) for adults and a maximum of 4000 mg. (4 grams) per day in the absence of contraindications such as hepatic failure/impairment (i.e. cirrhosis, the elderly, etc). However, one shouldn't take more than 2000 mg. (2 grams) per day without first talking to their physician. In addition, avoiding alcohol whilst taking acetaminophen is highly advisable, as it increases the chance of hepatotoxicity. I am aware of the dangers of overdosing on acetaminophen. I've taken care of people who have attempted to commit suicide by taking overdoses of the stuff. As for the deaths that occur from overdoses of acetaminophen, the reason is simple. People do not pay attention to what they're taking and don't take the time to read the labels of other drugs they may be taking in conjunction with a medication like Vicodin. People need to pay attention and ask questions, even if it seems like a minor question. You can't be too careful when it comes to your health.

~edited for spelling~
 
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2 grams =/= 10 grams.

You know years ago a good friend of mine died from liver failure from only taking two doses. So I guess you're asking me to either trust some anonymous internet source you didn't link to or to trust my own life experience. Seriously, do more research on this, the drug isn't as safe as you think it is. Some people are just more sensitive to it and can actually be seriously injured even by taking the recommended dose.
 
You know years ago a good friend of mine died from liver failure from only taking two doses. So I guess you're asking me to either trust some anonymous internet source you didn't link to or to trust my own life experience. Seriously, do more research on this, the drug isn't as safe as you think it is. Some people are just more sensitive to it and can actually be seriously injured even by taking the recommended dose.

Ok, so docters need to start with small doses and then work up to larger ones to make sure someone isn't too sensitive to the drug. This is not a reason to ban it.
 
You are correct. The potential side effects and dangers of acetaminophen are NOT to be ignored, and the risk is elevated the higher the single dosage taken. The maximum recommended dose of acetaminophen is 1000 mg. (1 gram) for adults and a maximum of 4000 mg. (4 grams) per day in the absence of contraindications such as hepatic failure/impairment (i.e. cirrhosis, the elderly, etc). However, one shouldn't take more than 2000 mg. (2 grams) per day without first talking to their physician. In addition, avoiding alcohol whilst taking acetaminophen is highly advisable, as it increases the change of hepatotoxicity. I am aware of the dangers of overdosing on acetaminophen. I've taken care of people who have attempted to commit suicide by taking overdoses of the stuff. As for the deaths that occur from overdoses of acetaminophen, the reason is simple. People do not pay attention to what they're taking and don't take the time to read the labels of other drugs they may be taking in conjunction with a medication like Vicodin. People need to pay attention and ask questions, even if it seems like a minor question. You can't be too careful when it comes to your health.

You know, I agree with this, and I just wish other people on this forum would actually articulate themselves like this instead of acting like buffoons. That's all I can say about that.
 
Ok, so docters need to start with small doses and then work up to larger ones to make sure someone isn't too sensitive to the drug. This is not a reason to ban it.

I don't think there should be a federal ban on manufacturers.
 
You know years ago a good friend of mine died from liver failure from only taking two doses. So I guess you're asking me to either trust some anonymous internet source you didn't link to or to trust my own life experience.

I've linked to it 3 times already, but here:

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_toxicity]Paracetamol toxicity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

And here are the studies:

# ^ a b c Dart RC, Erdman AR, Olson KR, Christianson G, Manoguerra AS, Chyka PA, Caravati EM, Wax PM, Keyes DC, Woolf AD, Scharman EJ, Booze LL, Troutman WG; American Association of Poison Control Centers (2006). "Acetaminophen poisoning: an evidence-based consensus guideline for out-of-hospital management". Clinical toxicology (Philadelphia, Pa.) 44 (1): 1–18. PMID 16496488.
# ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m Daly FF, Fountain JS, Murray L, Graudins A, Buckley NA (March 2008). "Guidelines for the management of paracetamol poisoning in Australia and New Zealand—explanation and elaboration. A consensus statement from clinical toxicologists consulting to the Australasian poisons information centres". The Medical journal of Australia 188 (5): 296–301. PMID 18312195. eMJA: Guidelines for the management of paracetamol poisoning in Australia and New Zealand — explanation and elaboration.
# ^ Watkins PB, Kaplowitz N, Slattery JT, et al. (July 2006). "Aminotransferase elevations in healthy adults receiving 4 grams of acetaminophen daily: a randomized controlled trial". JAMA : the journal of the American Medical Association 296 (1): 87–93. doi:10.1001/jama.296.1.87. PMID 16820551.
# ^ Dart RC, Bailey E (2007). "Does therapeutic use of acetaminophen cause acute liver failure?". Pharmacotherapy 27 (9): 1219–30. doi:10.1592/phco.27.9.1219. PMID 17723075.
# ^ Daly FF, O'Malley GF, Heard K, Bogdan GM, Dart RC (October 2004). "Prospective evaluation of repeated supratherapeutic acetaminophen (paracetamol) ingestion". Annals of emergency medicine 44 (4): 393–8. doi:10.1016/j.annemergmed.2004.05.005. PMID 15459622.
# ^ Tenenbein M (2004). "Acetaminophen: the 150 mg/kg myth". Journal of toxicology. Clinical toxicology 42 (2): 145–8. doi:10.1081/CLT-120030939. PMID 15214618.

The fact that you're willing to take your one anecdotal experience over things like "facts" and "studies" says it all.

Seriously, do more research on this, the drug isn't as safe as you think it is. Some people are just more sensitive to it and can actually be seriously injured even by taking the recommended dose.

I think that acetaminophen, like all drugs, is bad in excess and can in some cases be bad in normal doses. I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate that if used responsibly, it would be any more dangerous than any other drug that is used responsibly.
 
You know years ago a good friend of mine died from liver failure from only taking two doses. So I guess you're asking me to either trust some anonymous internet source you didn't link to or to trust my own life experience. Seriously, do more research on this, the drug isn't as safe as you think it is. Some people are just more sensitive to it and can actually be seriously injured even by taking the recommended dose.
Some people are allergic to aspirin.

Some people are allergic to penicillin.

Your friend's death is of course a tragedy. However, one person's adverse (and fatal) reaction to a medication does not alter the medication's risk profile significantly.

For the great majority of people, acetaminophen is a reasonably safe analgesic.

Everyone should be aware of the potential for adverse reactions to any medication; that is not the same as saying that every medication is likely to kill you.
 
I think that acetaminophen, like all drugs, is bad in excess and can in some cases be bad in normal doses. I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate that if used responsibly, it would be any more dangerous than any other drug that is used responsibly.

The whole goddamn point is that it's very to take too much without realizing it and by the time you know it's too late. It's the leading cause of liver damage. It's not nearly as safe as you're making it out to be.

And by the way you're dreaming if you think I'm going to take the time to read your sources.
 
You know years ago a good friend of mine died from liver failure from only taking two doses. So I guess you're asking me to either trust some anonymous internet source you didn't link to or to trust my own life experience. Seriously, do more research on this, the drug isn't as safe as you think it is. Some people are just more sensitive to it and can actually be seriously injured even by taking the recommended dose.

Did you know your friend's entire medical history? Hold old was he/she? Did he/she drink alcohol? Possibly have Hepatitis (which may or may not have been disclosed to you)? Any other metabolic issues? What other medications was he/she taking at the time? Did you witness exactly how much medication he/she took over that period of time? For that matter, did you witness every single medication taken by him/her during that time? There are any number of factors involved for each person. People's reactions can vary greatly even if they're taking the same identical medication. Doubling up on any medication is foolhardy, unless under your physician's supervision. The label warnings are there for a reason.

edited: As CL mentioned, allergic reactions are also a possibility any time you take a medication.

P.S. My condolences on the loss of your friend.
 
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For the great majority of people, acetaminophen is a reasonably safe analgesic.

Oh yeah, it's the leading cause of liver damage, but it's reasonably safe. I remember all the education in school about how alcohol will destroy our livers, I don't remember the education in school warning us of the dangers of acetaminophen.
 
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