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Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

Redress said:
No you did not. You posted the military policy on sexual harassment(which does not mention anything remotely like opening doors for anyone), and a story of a gay soldier. No proof that there is any more problem with sexual harrassment due to DADT, nor evidence that gay soldiers openly serving would cause an increase in sexual harassment charges.
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You seriously need to go back and re-read my posts. I posted evidence of a gay soldier being hrrassed because he was gay. After you do that, I'll be waiting for your docs. thanks in advance.
 
Alex said:
I was a medic who was trained to be in combat, as all military medics are. During the training, I never heard my sexuality mentioned as an issue, not once. That should be the last thing on a person's mind in those situations.
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When I was in, most of us just considered it no ones business. If you got your job done, why would we care?
 
apdst said:
You seriously need to go back and re-read my posts. I posted evidence of a gay soldier being hrrassed because he was gay. After you do that, I'll be waiting for your docs. thanks in advance.
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One indicates an isolated problem, not a wave of sexual harassment. Keep trying.
 
Gardener said:
Well then teach me, sensei. When you mentioned the gay guy making a pass in a latrine,
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I never said anything about a gay soldier making a pass at a straight soldier. You need to join Redress and go back and re-read my posts.

BTW, what makes everyone think that we're only talking about gay male soldiers?

You folks are making alotta false assumptions. Perhaps you should fall back and regroup?
 
apdst said:
You seriously need to go back and re-read my posts. I posted evidence of a gay soldier being hrrassed because he was gay. After you do that, I'll be waiting for your docs. thanks in advance.
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Then the people harassing the gay person should be dealt with. That should not be tolerated in homosexual or heterosexual cases.
 
Redress said:
One indicates an isolated problem, not a wave of sexual harassment. Keep trying.
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Show us one case of males and females being forced to share open bay showers. i.e showering together.
 
apdst said:
I never said anything about a gay soldier making a pass at a straight soldier. You need to join Redress and go back and re-read my posts.

BTW, what makes everyone think that we're only talking about gay male soldiers?

You folks are making alotta false assumptions. Perhaps you should fall back and regroup?
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Why would we? We are winning. You have shown no evidence of any problem with letting gays serve openly. You have made a claim that one of your sources contradicts. You have dismissed the experiences of several military veterans. You have offered zero substance.
 
Alex said:
Then the people harassing the gay person should be dealt with. That should not be tolerated in homosexual or heterosexual cases.
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You're absolutely right. This is the breakdown in discipline that concerns me. I shudder think of soldiers getting killed for a political agenda, or a social experiment.
 
apdst said:
I don't know how many gay soldiers I served with. Never was a concern of mine. Oh, wait, you think I'm homophobic! Shoulda seen that coming. Since I don't agree that the abolition of DADT is the neatest thing since sliced bread, there MUST be something wrong with me. Right?
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Actually, I never said that I thought you were homophobic. I just think it's a bit hypocritical to demand proof from others that you aren't willing to provide for your own assertions.
 
Redress said:
Why would we? We are winning. .
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No, not really. You've failed, after repeated requests, to provide docs supporting your point of view.
 
apdst said:
I never said anything about a gay soldier making a pass at a straight soldier. You need to join Redress and go back and re-read my posts.

BTW, what makes everyone think that we're only talking about gay male soldiers?

You folks are making alotta false assumptions. Perhaps you should fall back and regroup?
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Oh, so that was a different apdst who said this? :

"What if a gay soldier makes a pass at a straight soldier in the latrine? Sexual harrassment? Intent to rape?

That's not sensationalism. That's reality"


I must have had the two of you confused.
 
apdst said:
Show us one case of males and females being forced to share open bay showers. i.e showering together.
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Where did I say "forced"?
 
apdst said:
I never said anything about a gay soldier making a pass at a straight soldier. You need to join Redress and go back and re-read my posts.

BTW, what makes everyone think that we're only talking about gay male soldiers?

You folks are making alotta false assumptions. Perhaps you should fall back and regroup?
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Wait...so this wasn't the first point you tried to raise?

apdst said:
http://www.first.army.mil/eo/pdf/army_policy_sexual_harr.pdf

Welcome to the world of straight male soldiers reporting cases of sexual harrassment. The sexual harrassment rate in the military is going to go through the roof.
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One can only assume if we're talking about homos in the military and you raise the issue of straight male soldiers charging sexual harassment, it's gotta be by a gay male soldier. I don't think lesbians are really known for making unwanted advancements on men...:confused:
 
Dr_Patrick said:
Actually, I never said that I thought you were homophobic.
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Oh, that's exactly what you said. Let me quote you:

I love how some insecure straight men assume that gay men are just automatically attracted to anything with a penis.
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Redress said:
Where did I say "forced"?
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It seems that he's rather good at making counter points to things that people didn't even say in the first place.
 
apdst said:
Oh, that's exactly what you said. Let me quote you:
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I know what I typed. Please show me where in that quote I singled you out and said that you were homophobic. I'll wait. :2wave:

In fact, show me anywhere in any quote I've made in this thread so far where I've accused anyone of being homophobic.
 
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jallman said:
Wait...so this wasn't the first point you tried to raise?
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Actually, it's not. You took that one comment and ran with it, making that assumption yourself. Not long after that, I posted an article that proves sexual harrassment took place after DADT was put into affect. It was an article about a gay male soldier being assaulted by other men in his unit.
 
apdst said:
You're absolutely right. This is the breakdown in discipline that concerns me. I shudder think of soldiers getting killed for a political agenda, or a social experiment.
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You have shown no evidence that this would happen in anything other than isolated incidents. NJP was designed for situations like the one you linked to.
 
apdst said:
I'm concerend about there being a break down in discipline. That will cause soldiers to lose their lives. I find it awfully easy for those who aren't currently on duty to not worry about that.
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How exactly would this cause discipline to break down? The fear of another dude checking out your junk causes you to go Gomer Pyle on him?

apdst said:
Read AR 600-20, Chapter 7, Pg. 65 and educate yourselves as to the broad definition of sexual harrassment in the military. Enjoy.
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OK, I just did. There is nothing even remotely comparable to opening a door for someone. If you're going to make **** up, you're probably better off not directing me to the very document that proves you're making **** up.
http://www.sexualassault.army.mil/files/r600_20_chapter7.pdf
 
apdst said:
Show us one case of males and females being forced to share open bay showers. i.e showering together.
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I shared open bay showers in basic training (BT) with other men, they did not care. We were in BT to serve our country, not service each other. We were in the showers to get clean, nothing else. There was not a single time anyone expressed any problem with me. As a matter of fact, they all came to me for advice in BT because I was the only one who passed our first inspection.

Being gay was not an issue because I earned their respect for the reason I was there.... to serve my country and be serious about it.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I know what I typed. Please show me where in that quote I singled you out and said that you were homophobic. I'll wait. :2wave:
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I think that quote says it all, Doc.
 
apdst said:
Actually, it's not. You took that one comment and ran with it, making that assumption yourself. Not long after that, I posted an article that proves sexual harrassment took place after DADT was put into affect. It was an article about a gay male soldier being assaulted by other men in his unit.
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Where did it say anything about that harassment being sexual in nature rather than just bigoted in nature?

And yeah, I took that right off the front page. It was the first point you tried to support. Unless you are saying that your comparing straight men in showers with gay men was somehow like putting women in showers with men was a "point". I'm sure all the straight soldiers would love being compared to fragile little women in the showers with men...
 
Gardener said:
Oh, so that was a different apdst who said this? :

"What if a gay soldier makes a pass at a straight soldier in the latrine? Sexual harrassment? Intent to rape?

That's not sensationalism. That's reality"


I must have had the two of you confused.
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The point being, that until now, you would never hear of a male soldier filing a sexual harrassment complaint.
 
apdst said:
Actually, it's not. You took that one comment and ran with it, making that assumption yourself. Not long after that, I posted an article that proves sexual harrassment took place after DADT was put into affect. It was an article about a gay male soldier being assaulted by other men in his unit.
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HOLY COW! Sexual harassment actually happens! I would never have guessed. You know what, sometimes men sexually harass women, so women should not be in the military either. Oh, and sometimes whites use racial epitaphs towards minorities, so we need to keep minorities out of the military too.
 
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apdst said:
I think that quote says it all, Doc.
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Then you should work on your reading and comprehension skills. Next time you want to make an argument against something that I said, make it about something that I actually said and not something that you created out of thin air. In fact, I see that you do this a lot. If you want to have a shred of credibility you should probably refrain from doing this. Just a tip. :2wave:
 
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