• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Iran accuses CIA of killing protestor Neda

Agnapostate said:
Again, you engage in mere repetition. I see I'm going to have to educate you as to argument format, unfortunately. You state Point A. I rebut Point A. At that point, you don't merely repeat Point A; you issue a response to my rebuttal of Point A. That's unfortunately not been the format you've chosen to follow.
Click to expand...
Apparently I just have to repeat myself because instead of countering this simple fact you keep the argument going by claiming that I don't bring anything new on the subject.
Please just counter my point instead of resorting to valueless accusations.
 
Apocalypse said:
Apparently I just have to repeat myself because instead of countering this simple fact you keep the argument going by claiming that I don't bring anything new on the subject.
Please just counter my point instead of resorting to valueless accusations.
Click to expand...

Not at all. You stated that the CIA was democratically controlled to some extent because it was controlled by the government, which was in turn "controlled" by the people. I countered by saying that republicanism was heavily distinct from legitimately participatory direct democratic control, and more than that, that the CIA's concealed functions were not even an element of what republican control did exist, ensuring an effective detachment of democratic control from the CIA. You responded by repeating the first assertion without addressing these points. :shrug:
 
Agnapostate said:
Not at all. You stated that the CIA was democratically controlled to some extent because it was controlled by the government, which was in turn "controlled" by the people. I countered by saying that republicanism was heavily distinct from legitimately participatory direct democratic control, and more than that, that the CIA's concealed functions were not even an element of what republican control did exist, ensuring an effective detachment of democratic control from the CIA. You responded by repeating the first assertion without addressing these points. :shrug:
Click to expand...
But I didn't claim that the CIA was under a 'legitimately participatory direct democratic control'.
I claimed that the CIA is representing the American people, nothing more and nothing less.
This is not the same as the CIA being democratic controlled, or the CIA being under a republican control.
It means that if the CIA is indeed under the arm of the American government itself, it automatically makes it a representation of the People.
Why would you make it so complicated when it is so simple?
 
Apocalypse said:
But I didn't claim that the CIA was under a 'legitimately participatory direct democratic control'.
I claimed that the CIA is representing the American people, nothing more and nothing less.
This is not the same as the CIA being democratic controlled, or the CIA being under a republican control.
It means that if the CIA is indeed under the arm of the American government itself, it automatically makes it a representation of the People.
Why would you make it so complicated when it is so simple?
Click to expand...

Because some of us care to separate official propaganda from realistic conditions.
 
Hey I'll even make it even simple for you The National Security Act of 1947 which brought the CIA along with DoD,NSA,NSC,Joint Cheifs states that Congress and the President will appoint and control these agenceys directors.

So with that in mind since WE THE PEOPLE are the one's who elected these folks we their for control the CIA.
 
I just explained the divergence. Firstly, there's a lack of participatory democratic control of the government inherent in republicanism. Secondly, what republican control does exist is most certainly not exerted over top military and intelligence agencies. Therefore, there is obviously not popular control or management of the CIA, and why speak to the legitimacy of an arrangement where representation of the citizenry is in name only?
 
Agnapostate said:
Because some of us care to separate official propaganda from realistic conditions.
Click to expand...
By some of us you mean to yourself, I assume.
The facts that a Democracy is controlled by the people and that the CIA is controlled by that democratic government still stand, and I'll be here to repeat them over and over again as long as you do not debunk those facts.
And it'd be pretty hard to debunk a fact.
 
Apocalypse said:
By some of us you mean to yourself, I assume.
The facts that a Democracy is controlled by the people and that the CIA is controlled by that democratic government still stand, and I'll be here to repeat them over and over again as long as you do not debunk those facts.
And it'd be pretty hard to debunk a fact.
Click to expand...

Your repetition is growing rapidly less interesting. The reality is that you continue to state this without heeding the obvious detachment between democratic control and the CIA that exists. You're free to do that if you want, but I'm not going to pretend that you're doing anything other than repeating yourself. :shrug:
 
Agnapostate said:
Your repetition is growing rapidly less interesting. The reality is that you continue to state this without heeding the obvious detachment between democratic control and the CIA that exists. You're free to do that if you want, but I'm not going to pretend that you're doing anything other than repeating yourself. :shrug:
Click to expand...
But pretending is what you do the best. :(

Realize though, that if you are willing to get into an argument you cannot expect the other side to change his claims as long as you do not debunk them.

There is no "obvious detachment" between democratic control and the CIA.
The CIA is controlled by officials who are under the direct command of the government.
What you're doing now is nothing less than propaganda.
 
Tashah, is the movie you mentioned real footage or a reenactment?
 
Orius said:
Tashah, is the movie you mentioned real footage or a reenactment?
Click to expand...
It is a feature length movie based on a best-selling book. "The Stoning Of Soraya M." was second only to "Slumdog Millionaire" at the Canadian Film Festival. Interestingly enough, the casting director for this film is the actor who played Jesus in Mel Gibson's "Passion Of The Christ".

In common with Gibson's flick, this film is controversial due to the extreme violence contained in some scenes. Some critics complain that it is excessive. I disagree. Few in the West have any idea of the barbarity and brutality inherent in stoning a woman to death. Here, you will be a witness. Again I caution you, Soraya M. is realistic and is disturbing on many levels.
 
Tashah said:
Source: Israel News

090626151810_neda_ap_226.jpg

Neda Agha-Soltan, 27
Shot to death in Tehran by the Basij
"It burned me" were her last words
Click to expand...

I am so relieved to see all this new found change and hope thanks to the election of Obama and see the effects of his speech to Arabs have such a profound effect. :roll:
 
And we again witness the problematic elements of the reactionary perspective of Middle East affairs: total ignorance of the various ethnic and religious divisions so crucial to informed analysis of regional issue.
 
Agent Ferris said:
Iran isn't Arab.
Click to expand...

Would it have been more relevant for me to just type “Muslims?” Are you trying to claim that since they are “Persian” it makes them somehow different from their Muslim Arab neighbors? It does not change the intent and purposes of my comments unless of course you want to obfuscate and pontificate.

Suffice it to say that Obama's naive belief that one can "talk" to despots, tyrants and dictators is once more illustrative of a political party that chose to demagogue the efforts of the previous administration and who now must wallow in the failure of their on bloviations about how "talk" is more effective than real actions.
 
Agnapostate said:
And we again witness the problematic elements of the reactionary perspective of Middle East affairs: total ignorance of the various ethnic and religious divisions so crucial to informed analysis of regional issue.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's it. ::wink wink::
 
Everyone on the planet knows that this (failed) green revolution in Iran is cia bull****, all people that is except for 300 million americans and ignorant iranian youth
 
Liz Peeps said:
Everyone on the planet knows that this (failed) green revolution in Iran is cia bull****, all people that is except for 300 million americans and ignorant iranian youth
Click to expand...

lol who does this everyone account for? Followers of the Mullahs? Save the prepared propaganda that you got from the theocratic fascists for people less informed than ourselves.
 
Liz Peeps said:
Everyone on the planet knows that this (failed) green revolution in Iran is cia bull****, all people that is except for 300 million americans and ignorant iranian youth
Click to expand...
Everyone on your planet, you mean.
 
Liz Peeps said:
Everyone on the planet knows that this (failed) green revolution in Iran is cia bull****, all people that is except for 300 million americans and ignorant iranian youth
Click to expand...

There you have it folks, this is nothing more than a vast American CIA conspiracy.

This would be further proof how the West’s education systems are a complete and utter failure.

:rofl
 
Where is my vote = shopped?
 
Truth Detector said:
Are you trying to claim that since they are “Persian” it makes them somehow different from their Muslim Arab neighbors?
Click to expand...

That's like claiming Lutherans, Christians, Catholics, Protestants, , and Baptists are all the same.
 
Last edited:
Quote: Originally Posted by Truth Detector
Are you trying to claim that since they are “Persian” it makes them somehow different from their Muslim Arab neighbors?
TheNextEra said:
That's like claiming Lutherans, Christians, Catholics, Protestants, , and Baptists are all the same.
Click to expand...

:rofl You believe that Lutherans, Catholics, Protestants and Baptists, which by the way are ALL Christian faiths, are not the same? How so?

:roll:
 
Truth Detector said:
Would it have been more relevant for me to just type “Muslims?” Are you trying to claim that since they are “Persian” it makes them somehow different from their Muslim Arab neighbors?
Click to expand...

Yes Shia Iran is quite a bit different from their Sunni Arab neighbors, for one they hate each other.
 
Truth Detector said:
:rofl You believe that Lutherans, Catholics, Protestants and Baptists, which by the way are ALL Christian faiths, are not the same? How so?

:roll:
Click to expand...

Take a look at their beliefs for the answer. If they were the same, they would be the SAME RELIGION and there would be no different sects.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom