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Greece demands UK return Elgin marbles

Laila has made a very good case as to why these items now belong to the British. They were legally purchased.

Knowingly purchasing antiquities looted by an occupying military force is not "legal". In such cases both the purchaser and the seller are criminally liable.
 
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Purchasing antiquities looted by an occupying military force is not "legal". In such cases both the purchaser and the seller are criminally liable.

Occupying military force :roll:

That same argument can be used for any other country.
US/Native Americans.
Australia/Aborigines ....
Can we ask for the return of gold that was taken by the Romans?
Britain and half the world .... France, Italy, Denmark .... Egypt, Arabs, Turks .... Alot of Empires and "occupying military forces"

This occured during the period of enlightenment and if the Greeks really believe they have a leg to stand on legally, why not take UK to court for it?
 
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Occupying military force :roll:

Yes the were conquered and their antiquities were looted.

That same argument can be used for any other country.
US/Native Americans.
Australia/Aborigines ....


Looting of Native American archaeological sites

Jack Lee Harelson looting Elephant Mountain Cave in the Black Rock Desert of Nevada.

Throughout the history of the United States Native American archaeological sites have been looted, destroying religious sites and relics that date back several hundred years. Many Indian burial sites and sacred grounds have been systematically plundered and destroyed until the 1957 dispute about the Gasquet-Orleans Road. The GO road in what is now the Six Rivers National Forest in the Siskyou Mountain Range was the first logging project that raised public Indian opposition. After several legal disputes and lawsuits, including the 1978 Indian Religious Freedom Act, the case was decided at the Supreme Court.[13]

in 1990, the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (NAGPRA) became the primary federal legislation pertaining to graves and human remains in archaeological contexts. The act "establishes definitions of burial sites, cultural affiliation, cultural items, associated and unassociated funerary objects, sacred objects, cultural patrimony, Indian tribes, museums, Native Americans and Native Hawaiians, right of possession and tribal land."[14]

In 2002 Federal grand jurors have accused two men, Steven Scott Tripp, 40, of Farmington, and William Thomas Cooksey, 53, of Union, of looting and violating the integrity of an American Indian burial site at southeast Missouri's Wappapello Lake. The looters "illegally excavated, removed, damaged and defaced archaeological resources, and that by doing so they caused at least $1,000 in damage. Gary Stilts, the Army Corps' operations manager there, estimated the damage to be about $14,000".[15] Stilts said about the looting:

“ It's a sacred thing. None of us would want anyone digging in our ancestor's grave".


In 1995, authorities were informed about the looting of Elephant Mountain Cave, located on government property in the Black Rock Desert of Nevada. Jack Lee Harelson, a former insurance agent, looted the site for years, uncovering two burial sites, grave goods, obsidian blades and deer-hoof rattles. Harelson decapitated the two 2000 year old corpses and buried the heads in plastic garbage bags in his backyard. In 1996 a federal court in Oregon found Harelson guilty of corpse abuse and possession of stolen property, resulting in a $20,000 fine and 30 days in jail. (The conviction of corpse abuse was later revoked because the statute of limitations had expired.) In 2002 a federal administrative judge issued a civil penalty of $2.5 million for Harelson for destruction of archaeological resources. [16]

James Patrick Barker, a Bureau of Land Management (BLM) archaeologist for the state of Nevada, describes the Elephant Mountain Cave as one of the most significant sites of the Great Basin. One pair of sandals plundered by Harelson was later estimated to be 10.000 years old, making them one of the oldest pieces of footwear worldwide.[17]

On December 5, 2005 six Ohio residents, Daniel Fisher, 41, and Thomas J. Luecke, 40, of Cincinnati; Richard Kirk, 56, of Stout; Joseph M. Mercurio, 44, and Tanya C. Mercurio, 43, of Manchester; and David Whitling, 47, of Bellefontaine, entered federal ground to dig for artifacts, using "rakes and digging implements to disturb the surface of the ground, creating holes and displacing archaeological sediment in violation of the federal Archaeological Resources Protection Act". The looted site at Barren River Lake includes Early Woodlands ceramics dating back roughly to 1500 to 300 B.C. They looters were sentenced to probation by Judge Thomas B. Russell in federal court after pleading guilty.[18]

Looting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Can we ask for the return of gold that was taken by the Romans?

Can you provide proof of ownership?
 
Re: Greek marbles

I think that the Greeks should take their marbles and go home.

Seriosly the Elgin marbles are the rocks of Greek antiquity and they belong to Greece so return them to where they belong.

Someone neds to tell the Bits that heir empire is kapput...
 
How will a new Museum resolve the legal dispute over ownership?
the claim that there is no fit home for the display of the Marbles in Greece has been a major plank of the argument to keep them:lol:
 
the claim that there is no fit home for the display of the Marbles in Greece has been a major plank of the argument to keep them:lol:

The question of ownership and who legally it should be in the hands of is still there no matter how many museums they buy or build.
 
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Re: Greek marbles

Seriosly the Elgin marbles are the rocks of Greek antiquity and they belong to Greece so return them to where they belong.

Someone neds to tell the Bits that heir empire is kapput...

So they should go to Greece just because it once hundreds of years ago belonged to greece?

Great, using that logic i wonder if it works on land because NA will sure have a tight case ...

This has nothing to do with Empire and everything to do with Art. There is a big difference.
 
Para 5 indicates that of the British public who new of this problem 69% say the marbles should be returned to Greece:)

:rofl

2,109 persons in 198 UK locations

UK Population: Just almost 61 million ...

Proper surveys if you please that are representative and is a substantial percentage in comparison to the population.
 
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Obviously ... do you? :roll:

Screw morals, it is our legal stance that matters in this world. What is Greece going to do? Take us to court?
When did we steal it?
Don't try and bring up external cases for this one. UK stole none of these marbles, we bought and purchased them fair and square.
How long have you been a citizen of the UK?
 
How long have you been a citizen of the UK?

Almost all my life.
My Grandfather was part of the British Army as was my Dad and now my Brother. 3 generations. What does being a citizen of UK entail? Carrying a British passport? Having family who have served the country? Observing and following the laws? Being born here? Being loyal to UK? Contributing to the society?

What is your point and how does it connect to the Elgin Marbles?
 
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Almost all my life.
My Grandfather was part of the British Army as was my Dad and now my Brother. 3 generations. What does being a citizen of UK entail? Carrying a British passport? Having family who have served the country? Observing and following the laws? Being born here? Being loyal to UK? Contributing to the society?

What is your point and how does it connect to the Elgin Marbles?
Just wondering where your moral compass came from.
 
do you see the itsy bitsy red cross, then below to the right Mori/url clic on it:lol:

Linking me the site does not take away from my main contention with the data.

Less than 3,000 is unrepresentative of the population of the United Kingdom which reaches near to 61 million. True or False?
Also i have no idea what the researcher asked, answers can be different in accordance to how the question is asked and framed.
Lastly, we have no idea the background of these people. What qualifies being "familiar with the issue"? Knowing the history or just what it is?
 
Just wondering where your moral compass came from.

Morality is subjective.

To use it on a case in which ownership and possession comes into play is useless and will get us no where.

My compass differs from everyone elses, laws are not based on such things and neither is ownership therefore the argument of morality means nothing in this subject. It is legalities that matters.
 
Linking me the site does not take away from my main contention with the data.

Less than 3,000 is unrepresentative of the population of the United Kingdom which reaches near to 61 million. True or False?
Also i have no idea what the researcher asked, answers can be different in accordance to how the question is asked and framed.
Lastly, we have no idea the background of these people. What qualifies being "familiar with the issue"? Knowing the history or just what it is?
you left out "my bad", ask Mori I did, need I say more:lol:
 
Morality is subjective.

To use it on a case in which ownership and possession comes into play is useless and will get us no where.

My compass differs from everyone elses, laws are not based on such things and neither is ownership therefore the argument of morality means nothing in this subject. It is legalities that matters.
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
Ignoring my questions i see .... :doh

The data is flawed, why can you not acknowledge that?
 
Morality is subjective.

To use it on a case in which ownership and possession comes into play is useless and will get us no where.

My compass differs from everyone elses, laws are not based on such things and neither is ownership therefore the argument of morality means nothing in this subject. It is legalities that matters.
Morality is subjective to liberals, so they don't have to have any.
 
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