Woman fined $1.9 million for illegally downloading 24 songs

DeeJayH said:

than why is it refered to as piracy instead of theft?

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Why is homicide sometimes called murder and othertimes called manslaughter?

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Slippery Slope said:

What-the-****-ever... it's against the ****ing law regardless.

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Stop dodging this, will you?

We were specifically referring to the legal differentiation of copyright infringement and theft, and whether you could logically compare the two while remaining legally/logically sound, not whether or not they were both against the law or not. :doh

If you copied 5 tables, and I stole 1 from you, the theft is the stealing of the table since you don't have it, not the copying of the table.

How hard is that to understand?

(and semantics or not, that is no reason to exclude intellectual honest/factual accuracy when it is called for)

BTW: What is your stance on used CD sales, and giving away (legally obtained) CDs? After all, the company and/or artist doesn't see a dime from that.

Travelsonic said:

Stop dodging this, will you?

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Whatever, if the point of the thread for you is to argue the semantics of whether stealing is theft or not then just argue with yourself. Stealing in the broad sense is taking something that isn't yours.

We were specifically referring to the legal differentiation of copyright infringement and theft, and whether you could logically compare the two while remaining legally/logically sound, not whether or not they were both against the law or not. :doh

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No, YOU were. I was talking about copying someone's work, because you have the technical ability to do so, and retaining possession of that work without paying the creator who has not released his rights to you. You did not create the work and yet you have it without paying for it. So how did you get it? You took a copy of it, and the creator explicitly says you may not have a copy without paying for it.

If you copied 5 tables, and I stole 1 from you, the theft is the stealing of the table since you don't have it, not the copying of the table.

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The analogy was on the theft of the copy and still retaining the original. You can twist it all you want.

How hard is that to understand?

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Not at all, what is hard to understand is why you think taking someone's work without paying for it is ok.
But to be honest we had this discussion before so go find that thread for the debate.

(and semantics or not, that is no reason to exclude intellectual honest/factual accuracy when it is called for)

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And when it was called for it was given but not without an admonishment for being ridiculous.

BTW: What is your stance on used CD sales, and giving away (legally obtained) CDs? After all, the company and/or artist doesn't see a dime from that.

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You are allowed to transfer ownership. Like selling a car, the difference is that the average citizen has the technological ease and almost nonexistent cost to make a copy of a CD and not a car. You are not allowed to retain a copy of the work if you sell your CD. Which by the way is a copy of the original and yet you are required to pay for it... curious.

This is why you layer yourself with an out-of-country proxy.

Copyright laws are ridiculous and almost impossible to truly consistently enforce. Think about it, if you use Tivo or DVR you're breaking copyright infringement. This is a new world we live in, where technology plays a empowering role. I say tough to the MIAA and RIAA, because you're just going to have to find better ways of making money, or not exist at all.

All it takes is using out-of-country proxies that are unlikely to cooperate with the U.S. to be rather safe using Torrents and P2P Networks. Not to mention Peer Guardian on top of those.