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The world's biggest (and it even has its own submarine)

Caine said:
So because you lose your house from mortgage suddenly you can't afford to rent a place and you go homeless?
What happens to all your stuff you had inside the home you couldn't afford?

Lets be honest about the discussion, the people who lose their homes have ample time to find another place to live, if they go homeless its due to their own ignorance.
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They would have ample time to find another place to live IF and ONLY IF they have the income to attain another place of residence. Use your brain and quit letting your greed overpower your common sense. Hopefully you'll never have to be in a situation like this as I don't wish it upon anyone.....but then again, some people it might do them a little good. It would make people change their stereotypical and bias views on this issue real quick.
 
BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
They would have ample time to find another place to live IF and ONLY IF they have the income to attain another place of residence. Use your brain and quit letting your greed overpower your common sense. Hopefully you'll never have to be in a situation like this as I don't wish it upon anyone.....but then again, some people it might do them a little good. It would make people change their stereotypical and bias views on this issue real quick.
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Im having a hard time figuring out why it would be so hard to afford a place to live.

You don't need cell phones, tv, couches, computers, internet, air conditioning, telephone service, movie rentals, etc, etc, etc.

Too many people go "broke" due to thinking they need these luxuries.

As far as your adhominims stating that I am greedy. I make a mere 44k a year, I am also a lowly high school graduate, born into a poor family, but I worked hard to attain what I have today. Its about working hard, budgeting yourself, and not letting stupid **** like alcohol and drugs get in your way. Life is NOT a party, which is something somenoe should have said to these homeless people.
 
Caine said:
Exactly. Families are more torn apart than ever. If someone is homeless, they should be able to lean on other family members for support. Your family doesn't want to support you? There must be a serious character flaw that you possess that makes you not worth the trouble to them. I wonder what that could be?

Either way, its not some rich guy's responsibility to house those who have made poor choices in life.




Because I, unlike you, actually see what they do with that $5.
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Actually, that's another stereotype because not all families are in the position to help. They can't send money because they are living in poverty themselves. Anyways, who's to say that some people even have families who are still alive. Think about what you're saying before you start jumping into accusations like that. And Yes, I DO see what MOST people do with that $5....and it's not go buy drugs or alcohol. The ones who do that are the ones you see on the street corners begging for money. Find a homeless person who isn't begging and give him $5 and watch what he buys with it. Or better yet, if you are afraid that someone is going to spend the $5 on drugs or alcohol, give them a loaf of bread and a pack of bologna instead.
You can't automatically assume that just because someone is homeless they've made "poor" choices, you don't even know them...hell you won't even stop to see what that persons name is so how the hell could you know that he made poor choices causing him to be without a home?????
You are just a greedy bastard lucky enough have never struggled in a situation like this.
 
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BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
It's a fact that 1% of the worlds population holds 80% of the worlds wealth.....
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So what ?

BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
So please explain to me how the average working class citizen, from ANY country, is going to end up in the top 1% "a position to help others"
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Why should I ? You explain it to me. My point was, I will care about your opinion on what to do with 300 million, when you have accumulated 300 million.

BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
I simply said that if he's got that much money, why not help people out.
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I'll bet, if you tried to accumulate your own 300 million, you would soon find out why not.

BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
but he should at least do something to help out other people in less fortunate situations.
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Prove this assertion.
 
Caine said:
Im having a hard time figuring out why it would be so hard to afford a place to live.

You don't need cell phones, tv, couches, computers, internet, air conditioning, telephone service, movie rentals, etc, etc, etc.

Too many people go "broke" due to thinking they need these luxuries.

As far as your adhominims stating that I am greedy. I make a mere 44k a year, I am also a lowly high school graduate, born into a poor family, but I worked hard to attain what I have today. Its about working hard, budgeting yourself, and not letting stupid **** like alcohol and drugs get in your way. Life is NOT a party, which is something somenoe should have said to these homeless people.
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You are right...people don't need cell phones, tv, couches, or any of that ****.....however, just because you work your ass off for 65+ hours a week like I have done since I was 12 years old to help my mom pay the bills, doesn't mean that you'll be lucky enough to make $44k a year...which by the way is about 5 times the amount considered to be living in poverty for a family of 4......and these homeless people don't think life is a party, maybe just the ones you see begging on the street corners, but who's to say they didn't become that way because they are giving up due to inconsiderate jackasses like yourself?
 
BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
Actually, that's another stereotype because not all families are in the position to help. They can't send money because they are living in poverty themselves.
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Who said anything about SENDING money? Have you ever heard of families living under the same roof? I mean if someone is homeless this would DEFINATELY be the thing to do, yes/no?


Anyways, who's to say that some people even have families who are still alive.
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Oh jesus, lets take the least common denominator and make it out to be the most common situation. :roll:

Think about what you're saying before you start jumping into accusations like that. And Yes, I DO see what MOST people do with that $5....and it's not go buy drugs or alcohol. The ones who do that are the ones you see on the street corners begging for money. Find a homeless person who isn't begging and give him $5 and watch what he buys with it. Or better yet, if you are afraid that someone is going to spend the $5 on drugs or alcohol, give them a loaf of bread and a pack of bologna instead.
You can't automatically assume that just because someone is homeless they've made "poor" choices, you don't even know them...hell you won't even stop to see what that persons name is so how the hell could you know that he made poor choices causing him to be without a home?????
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Now you assume I won't stop to find out what their name is? Do you understand how often I deal with homeless people? You entertain me with your assumptions.....

You are just a greedy bastard lucky enough have never struggled in a situation like this.
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More personal attacks..... is this how you debate when your losing miserably?
 
BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
You are right...people don't need cell phones, tv, couches, or any of that ****.....however, just because you work your ass off for 65+ hours a week like I have done since I was 12 years old to help my mom pay the bills, doesn't mean that you'll be lucky enough to make $44k a year...which by the way is about 5 times the amount considered to be living in poverty for a family of 4......and these homeless people don't think life is a party, maybe just the ones you see begging on the street corners, but who's to say they didn't become that way because they are giving up due to inconsiderate jackasses like yourself?
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So now I am an inconsiderate jackass.

Keep the personal attacks flowing my friend, its just showing that you can't manage to debate the actual topic.
 
Voidwar said:
So what ?



Why should I ? You explain it to me. My point was, I will care about your opinion on what to do with 300 million, when you have accumulated 300 million.



I'll bet, if you tried to accumulate your own 300 million, you would soon find out why not.



Prove this assertion.
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Ok, once again, it's a suggestion based on humane beliefs. Based on the beliefs that helping others in less fortunate situations is a good thing. This is exactly how America has became what it is today, by everyone not helping everyone, and sitting back smirking making fun of people in less fortunate situations. It's simply quite pathetic. And yes, if I were to have accumulated over 300 million dollars, I would help other people out more so than I do now. I am not in a position to help much, but I give what I can when I can, which is what originally made America a great country, but ultimately we are in a reversal of morals and beliefs that is allowing us to deteriorate from within.
 
OxymoronP said:
****ing Robbed his own nation blind, I ****ing hate these arrogant sons of bitches. Where is Putin and his special tea when you need it.
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The privatization chaos of 1990s Russia was the exit wound of communism. While some things could obviously have been handled much better, Yeltsin isn't to blame for its problems, Lenin & Co are!

Over time, in a free market, money tends to flow away from incompetent individuals and toward more competent ones. Most billionaires in the world are self-made, and billionaires who gain their wealth through fraud tend not to remain billionaires for long.


BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
Still, we have hundreds of thousands or homeless and starving people who need help.....
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There are in fact billions of people living through subsistence agriculture, which means they don't produce any economic assets except feeding themselves, and they in fact often are a liability, sucking in billions in foreign aid. All people used to live like this prior to industrialization, and what's preventing those poor people from working their way up the economic ladder are protectionist and "anti-sweatshop" laws that first world demagogue politicians often impose for their own political benefit!
 
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Caine said:
So now I am an inconsiderate jackass.

Keep the personal attacks flowing my friend, its just showing that you can't manage to debate the actual topic.
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If I am reading right, you started the personal attacks.....not on myself, but against the homeless population by stating they are mostly druggies and alcoholics. And besides, I call it like I see it, and yes....you are an inconsiderate jackass who thinks solely of himself.
 
BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
Ok, once again, it's a suggestion based on humane beliefs. Based on the beliefs that helping others in less fortunate situations is a good thing. This is exactly how America has became what it is today, by everyone not helping everyone, and sitting back smirking making fun of people in less fortunate situations. It's simply quite pathetic. And yes, if I were to have accumulated over 300 million dollars, I would help other people out more so than I do now. I am not in a position to help much, but I give what I can when I can, which is what originally made America a great country, but ultimately we are in a reversal of morals and beliefs that is allowing us to deteriorate from within.
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Yep, and it starts with people who think life is a party, and that these rich should help me so I can sit on my ass and do nothing.

Tell me, why is it every time I meet someone who is unemployed they are drunk? Where do they get the money to buy booze? Booze is a luxury they should not be buying while getting drunk and complaining about how expensive it is and they are going to lose their house.
 
BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
If I am reading right, you started the personal attacks.....not on myself, but against the homeless population by stating they are mostly druggies and alcoholics. And besides, I call it like I see it, and yes....you are an inconsiderate jackass who thinks solely of himself.
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No, I made an observation about the homeless, I didn't attack any posters here.

It isn't against the forum rules to make a statement about the homeless based off of real personal experience.

And no, I don't think solely of myself, I have 2 children who I have to look out for and protect and ensure that they have the best opportunities in America, which means Im not giving five bucks to some homeless bum to go buy a pint of Maddog when I can put it in my child's piggy bank.


EDIT: Your continued use of personal attacks against me is noted.
 
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Caine said:
No, I made an observation about the homeless, I didn't attack any posters here.

It isn't against the forum rules to make a statement about the homeless based off of real personal experience.

And no, I don't think solely of myself, I have 2 children who I have to look out for and protect and ensure that they have the best opportunities in America, which means Im not giving five bucks to some homeless bum to go buy a pint of Maddog when I can put it in my child's piggy bank.


EDIT: Your continued use of personal attacks against me is noted.
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Obviously you have your opinion regarding this situation, and I have mine, and apparently neither of us are going to change our beliefs, so I am done commenting regarding this issue.
 
BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
Ok, once again, it's a suggestion based on humane beliefs.
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Why would he take your advice ? how can your advice on this matter mean anything >?

BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
Based on the beliefs that helping others in less fortunate situations is a good thing.
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Why ?

BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
And yes, if I were to have accumulated over 300 million dollars, I would help other people out more so than I do now.
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You can claim this, and it might be true, but either way, I am just glad you are on to a topic you have a right to comment on.

BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
I am not in a position to help much, but I give what I can when I can, which is what originally made America a great country, but ultimately we are in a reversal of morals and beliefs that is allowing us to deteriorate from within.
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What if I say your faceless charity and expectation of entitlements are exactly the cause of deterioration ? I think you should help someone because you love them, or they helped you. Just being poor is the worst kind of reason. Faceless charity builds parasites. Charity that requires a name and a face and ongoing honorable behavior rebuilds people.
 
Voidwar said:
What if I say your faceless charity and expectation of entitlements are exactly the cause of deterioration ? I think you should help someone because you love them, or they helped you. Just being poor is the worst kind of reason. Faceless charity builds parasites. Charity that requires a name and a face and ongoing honorable behavior rebuilds people.
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^This^.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
If you would like to check into my "opinions" regarding this, do a little research of your own. In fact, here is a few links to get started.

Why Do People Become Homeless

Why Are People Homeless?

National Coalition for the Homeless

So once again.....tell the people who got lay-ed off and lost their home, or their mortgage company shot their interest rates up, that they are druggies or alcoholics or just lazy.
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I read all of those links and I didn't see a single thing that refuted Caine's assertion.

There was a whole lot of "oh there's no affordable housing or no livable wages," but those are both statistics made up out of whole cloth. They claim that a "living wage" is $33k/year. Are you ****ing kidding me? In what world is $16/hr not enough to not be homeless?
 
RightinNYC said:
They claim that a "living wage" is $33k/year. Are you ****ing kidding me? In what world is $16/hr not enough to not be homeless?
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With less than $16 an hour you can qualify for an FHA loan and buy a house.

In my experience these few years, almost everyone I have worked with has been very poor with handling money.

Using rent to own stores, payday lenders and buy here pay here car lots.
They finance themselves into poverty.
 
BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
Once again, I did not say he should not have bought the yacht. I simply said, if you have that much money, why not help other people out.
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Yes, you said something ignorant.

The money went somewhere useful.

It didn't go where you thought it would be useful, but then again, it's not your money, and, indeed, the money provided employment for many at all levels of society.

BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
I'm pretty sure that the shipyard who built it probably didn't hire any extra workers to construct the ship,
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I'm pretty sure that if the ship hadn't been built, the shipyard's employees wouldn't have had three hundred million dollars on their hands to spend, and the stell mills, the boiler makers, the companies making electrical wiring and steam turbines and other useful things and skills a society needs.

Instead, you would rather the guy drive through the ghetto throwing hundred dollar bills out the limo's window so the crack ho's will be hungry next week, again.

That ship was an investment, welfare is a waste.

BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
and if they did, as soon as this ship was completed they probably lay-ed those same workers out putting them right back in the same financial situation they were already in.
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With an extra two years experience under their belts, which increases their opportunities in the future.

What opportunities are provided by someone pigging out on free cheese for two years?

BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
I did say the yacht was sweet, and yes he can do with his money whatever he wants. He was able to dump 300 million into that yacht alone, obviously that amount doesn't come close to what his total net worth is.......so if he were a decent human being, he would help other people out some.
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He is a decent human being, he provided people willing to work with jobs.

What can be more decent than that? Throwing the money away?

Why is that better?
 
Caine said:
There are plenty of jobs out there that the American people are unwilling to do.

Its their own fault.
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You forgot these important words:

...that the American people are unwilling to do at the wages offered

It's their problem, sure, but now it's clearly stated.
 
BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
They would have ample time to find another place to live IF and ONLY IF they have the income to attain another place of residence.
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Well, I understand what you're saying. After all, a person defaulting on a mortgage is never aware of the fact that he's not making his mortgage payments. The bank never sends him letters, they never try to call him on the telephone, they don't take any action at all, not a single blessed step, until one night, at three AM, the KNOCK comes on the door, and BANG, that family is homeless, on the street, with absolutely no warning that anything was in the wind.

There's absolutely no way those people had anything to do with their dispossession and they certainly had no warning whatsoever what the future was going to hold for them six months before.

BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
Use your brain
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You should take that advice.

People that lose their residences because they don't pay their mortgage don't go homeless, they become renters.
 
BaZaRr BeAtZ said:
You are right...people don't need cell phones, tv, couches, or any of that ****.....however, just because you work your ass off for 65+ hours a week like I have done since I was 12 years old to help my mom pay the bills, doesn't mean that you'll be lucky enough to make $44k a year...which by the way is about 5 times the amount considered to be living in poverty for a family of 4......and these homeless people don't think life is a party, maybe just the ones you see begging on the street corners, but who's to say they didn't become that way because they are giving up due to inconsiderate jackasses like yourself?
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So....$44k is the equivalent to $22 dollars per hour.

You're saying that it's a factor of five more than the national poverty line, so you're talking about $4.40 an hour, or a little over half the minimum wage, which means they're either itinerant farmers or they're so useless they can't hold a mimimum wage job, and only work half the year.

WHERE does this become someone else's problem, when that someone else has his own family to support, his own life to live, and when that someone else simply isn't responsible for anything in that other person's life, not a thing?
 
Caine said:
There are plenty of jobs out there that the American people are unwilling to do.

Its their own fault.
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OMG! Again are you serious? I know college educated people who lost their jobs that cannot even find work in fast food, retail, etc. It is bad out here. Wake Up Dude! :(
 
Kali said:
OMG! Again are you serious? I know college educated people who lost their jobs that cannot even find work in fast food, retail, etc. It is bad out here. Wake Up Dude! :(
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The mere possession of a college degree is not (and has never been) some magical panacea.

cd-unemploy-by-education-un.jpg


That doesn't change the truth of what Caine said.

If you truly know some college educated people who can't find any work, send them my way. I'll hire as many as you can possibly find to work for minimum wage, doing things like cleaning apartments, walking dogs, doing laundry, mowing lawns, etc. No joke.

If they don't want to do that work for minimum wage, then I guess they really aren't in as dire straits as you claim.
 
I just approve of how the chart does not show a HUGE difference between HS grad and College Grad..but does show a HUGE difference between non-HS grad and any grad.

That said the economy isn't great, not getting much better, and inflation is starting to worry people..even gas is going up again.
Carter 39 year re-union in 2010 at this rate.
May even have the Iranians taking hostages and sealing off the straits...no Soviets though go to make do with the Chinese and North Koreans.



Anyway this is about a super awesome ship..James Bond style..hell the guy even looks like a James Bond Villain!
 
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Triad said:
I just approve of how the chart does not show a HUGE difference between HS grad and College Grad..but does show a HUGE difference between non-HS grad and any grad.
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This is completely true. What with the proliferation of schools and lowering of standards, graduating college is no longer the accomplishment it used to be. If you can graduate high school, there's a good chance you can succeed at all sorts of union-esque jobs that will pay as much and have as much job security as the kind of job that many college grads will get.

By that same token, if you can't graduate high school, you've got a long ****ty road ahead of you.
 
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