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BNP leader pelted in egg protest

kaya'08 said:
racial discrimination is happening all the time and regardless if you ignore or not, it will affect you, cause divisions and possibly incite violence. Its morally wrong to allow a society to be racist and get away with it; these laws are implace to protect society from such inappropriate behaviour so there rights of being equal in society can be protected, so that black man can work in this shop, or the white girl can live wherever. That is the society we must promote. Fascist parties and movements gain ground if we do not restrict such speech.
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It appears to me, from the british experience, that the opposite is true. By silencing speech you don't want to hear, you give people the impression that they are powerless, and they do react to that.

It's one thing to discriminate in employment or housing on the basis of race. It's another thing entirely to silence people.

People can think what they want as long as they ACT within the limits of the law, in the U.S.The UK Race Relations Act 1976 and all of its amendments and extensions protect individuals from being discriminated against in employment on the grounds of colour, race, nationality, religious beliefs or ethnicity. This Act does not distinguish between whether racist practices were done on purpose or not, it is concerned only with the fact that racial discrimination occurred. Four main types of discrimination are described in legislation related to employment. Direct discrimination is deliberate and obvious, for example if a promotion is being held only for members of one race.

Indirect discrimination occurs when practices of policies disadvantage one or more racial groups, such as requiring members of one race to complete more tasks than another but expecting them to get their work done just as quickly. Harassment occurs when the workplace is allowed to become a hostile environment for members of a certain race, whether through direct threats, methods of intimidation or "jokes" about that race.
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I don't support racial harassment and/or discrimination on the job. But being called a name by a random stranger on a street is not a crime. Nor should someone's personal racial views CAUSE them to be disqualified from political office (though I would not vote for a known racist).

I don't need you to quote the law to me, the idea that any political speech should somehow be made illegal--even iif it is racist--is simply...a bad idea.

I know that you are young and have been fully indoctrinated in the concept, but to an American, this is an appalling concept.
 
kaya'08 said:
You cant apply the same logic to every situation such as Anti-Semitism or the use of the N word which isnt the case. Regardless of what society racism takes place in, racial discrimination is happening all the time and regardless if you ignore or not, it will affect you, cause divisions and possibly incite violence. Its morally wrong to allow a society to be racist and get away with it; these laws are implace to protect society from such inappropriate behaviour so there rights of being equal in society can be protected, so that black man can work in this shop, or the white girl can live wherever. That is the society we must promote. Fascist parties and movements gain ground if we do not restrict such speech.



The street example was just that, an example, and racism and discrimination can occur anywhere; be it in the work place, or wherever, and can harm and affect you directly.

The UK Race Relations Act 1976 and all of its amendments and extensions protect individuals from being discriminated against in employment on the grounds of colour, race, nationality, religious beliefs or ethnicity. This Act does not distinguish between whether racist practices were done on purpose or not, it is concerned only with the fact that racial discrimination occurred. Four main types of discrimination are described in legislation related to employment. Direct discrimination is deliberate and obvious, for example if a promotion is being held only for members of one race.


Indirect discrimination occurs when practices of policies disadvantage one or more racial groups, such as requiring members of one race to complete more tasks than another but expecting them to get their work done just as quickly. Harassment occurs when the workplace is allowed to become a hostile environment for members of a certain race, whether through direct threats, methods of intimidation or "jokes" about that race.
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Jokes about race are illegal? You have to be kidding. And before you call me a racist, let me crack a few jokes. I am half Irish (on my father's side) and half Jewish (on my mother's side).

How did my father's ancestors emigrate to America? The first one swam across the Atlantic, and the rest walked across on the scum.

Everybody on my mother's side have big noses. Why is that? Because air is free.

When I was growing up, I wanted to be a cop, like so many on my father's side were, but I couldn't because of my mother's side. If I were to stop someone for speeding, I wouldn't know whether to write him a ticket or stone him to death.

The reason my parents got divorced? When my mother was pregnant, my father asked her if she had something in the oven.

They are just jokes, folks. Should I now place myself under arrest for racially trashing my whole family? LOL.

Jokes?

I don't care!!
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
I think the reason that the BNP is gaining traction in your country, frankly, is because a lot of people feel like they are being silenced, and they resent some of the changes that immigration have imposed on the British way of life.
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In reality no restriction of speech or "silencing" is happening when you take into account a general overview of policies that regulate speech. Apart from the hate crimes act, and political correctness formed through an extension of these policies because of the Labour party and the EU, its not so much our freedom of speech that concerns us, but our Civil Liberties, for example, the ID cards, the DNA databases, and then theres constant security leaks, the corruption, but Civil Liberties is nothing the BNP wouldnt take from us in a different form through racist policies. The racism act is pretty favourable here and racism widely fround apon, which is why we have a habbit of lobbing eggs at racist idiots like the BNP leader. Regardless of the low turnout, BNP gained ground because Britons are trying to find jobs in an economic crisis but are beaten to it by Poles, Bulgarians, the whole lot of non-natives that seem to undermine this country.

So, in essence, I would call these votes for the BNP a vote against the idea of thought crimes.
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Thought crimes? You mean racism crimes. As i stated, no, and plus you cannot conclude this with given information.

I'd rather have someone openly express their racism than have it forced underground to fester.
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I rather they where not racist at all. To stand up and call a Pakistani a Paki will get you a prison sentence. To say you want them out of the country without inciting direct racism through insults, you can slip away with that, hence the existence of the BNP.

And in the states, black people call each other the n-word regularly. So, how would you enforce laws against that, precisely? :rofl
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Thats like me calling you a cracker. Im not discriminating you because i too am a cracker, and the law doesnt cover that. Its called acts, they can be modified to provide extensions and it doesnt need to be so straight foward.
 
danarhea said:
Jokes about race are illegal? You have to be kidding. And before you call me a racist, let me crack a few jokes. I am half Irish (on my father's side) and half Jewish (on my mother's side).

How did my father's ancestors emigrate to America? The first one swam across the Atlantic, and the rest walked across on the scum.

Everybody on my mother's side have big noses. Why is that? Because air is free.

When I was growing up, I wanted to be a cop, like so many on my father's side were, but I couldn't because of my mother's side. If I were to stop someone for speeding, I wouldn't know whether to write him a ticket or stone him to death.

The reason my parents got divorced? When my mother was pregnant, my father asked her if she had something in the oven.

They are just jokes, folks. Should I now place myself under arrest for racially trashing my whole family? LOL.
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:rofl
If they are not meant to offend or incite hatred then its cool. Some people call me an Armenian killer or a Bacon roll as a joke, that stuff can pass, if its not meant to insult and incite hatred.
 
alexa said:
Free speech also requires honest speech.
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No, no, no it doesn't, and who is to decide?

The press will hold feet to fire should they not believe the speech to be dishonest; or their political opponents will. (Note to John McCain).
We do have laws about holocaust deniers here.
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This is as idiotic as the deniers themselves.
We also have laws about 'incitement to violence' and racism
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Part 1 is OK, but part II isn't. Racists should be able to spew their poison, even from the pulpit as Rev. Wright had.

No one is complaining about free speech except where that free speech is an incitement to harm others.
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Problem is, who is to decide?

Inciting violence is once thing, but people should be able to spew idiocy all they like.

And to add to Danarhea's joke list:
Did you know the Polish invented the triathlon?
The jogged to the swimming pool and after a couple hours rode a bike home.

.
 
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alexa said:
They would be arrested for their views and their actions. However they have been very clever in being deceptive.
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No one should be arrested for anything other than their actions, provided those actions are breaking the law. Arresting people for their opinions is unconscionable and should go against everything we in the West stand for.

I've been trying to find some information from their website through 'back in time' which I found before which would illustrate this very well but there is a lot to look through and it is not impossible they have removed it.

It would give you some idea of what I am talking about.
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Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about. We have a similar party here in Switzerland that constantly dances on the fine line between free speech and racist or xenophobic comments. Some people get offended by their political ads. Our courts have repeatedly refused to sanction their right to free speech as long as the language they use doesn't cross the line. Everyone knows what they're all about. We all know they're a nationalist, racist, anti-foreigner, totally hyperbolic party. However, they can only go so far into promoting their views and even if they were to gain majority in government our laws prohibit most of what they advocate. So, let them rant and rave. At least they're out in the open where I can point and laugh at them for the clowns that they are. I wouldn't dream in a million years of ever getting the party banned or preventing them in any way from expressing themselves.

If a pedophile wanted to work with children and said they loved them and you knew what they meant by them saying that, you could say they would be arrested if the truth were known.
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No. A pedophile is only arrested when they act on their impulses. I've never heard of anyone, in any Western country who was arrested BEFORE they did anything wrong.

It is similar to that. We do know the truth. The media knows the truth but the BNP are very clever at the moment in their presentation. When as does happen a Member is caught in action they will describe that person as a 'bad apple'. They have a heck of a lot of bad apples.

If you want to find out more about them you can find it here

The real BNP: Scratch the surface and you find the same old racist organisation
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Like I said, no need. I know exactly who and what they are. The only way to effectively fight against their nonsense is to use arguments of your own that make more sense than theirs, which really should not prove all that difficult. Banning their words will accomplish nothing of substance as it will stifle a debate that needs to take place in the public arena.
 
alexa said:
They would be arrested for their views and their actions. However they have been very clever in being deceptive.

I've been trying to find some information from their website through 'back in time' which I found before which would illustrate this very well but there is a lot to look through and it is not impossible they have removed it.


If you want to find out more about them you can find it here

The real BNP: Scratch the surface and you find the same old racist organisation
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I scratched the surface and found Gerry Gable
Whois
 
Arcana XV said:
No one should be arrested for anything other than their actions, provided those actions are breaking the law. Arresting people for their opinions is unconscionable and should go against everything we in the West stand for.
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I think you will find Kaya08 deals with this in posts 48 and 53

Arcana XV said:
Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about. We have a similar party here in Switzerland that constantly dances on the fine line between free speech and racist or xenophobic comments. Some people get offended by their political ads. Our courts have repeatedly refused to sanction their right to free speech as long as the language they use doesn't cross the line. Everyone knows what they're all about. We all know they're a nationalist, racist, anti-foreigner, totally hyperbolic party.
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Yes, things need to cross the line here too

Arcana XV said:
However, they can only go so far into promoting their views and even if they were to gain majority in government our laws prohibit most of what they advocate. So, let them rant and rave. At least they're out in the open where I can point and laugh at them for the clowns that they are. I wouldn't dream in a million years of ever getting the party banned or preventing them in any way from expressing themselves.
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I would imagine they would be able to do quite a lot of change just the same as Nazi Germany managed, if they ever got themselves into that position.


Arcana XV said:
No. A pedophile is only arrested when they act on their impulses. I've never heard of anyone, in any Western country who was arrested BEFORE they did anything wrong.
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You missed my post 22

alexa said:
True but if they were in private getting up to their pedophile activity they would be arrested. That is the situation with the BNP.
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Arcana XV said:
Like I said, no need. I know exactly who and what they are. The only way to effectively fight against their nonsense is to use arguments of your own that make more sense than theirs, which really should not prove all that difficult. Banning their words will accomplish nothing of substance as it will stifle a debate that needs to take place in the public arena.
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We have to go within the laws of this country. They have found that not saying things and saying things in a different way - 'that is selling, not selling out' has been an advantage to them. I think you will find Hitler managed his presentation quite similarly.
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
Insanity. Seriously, insanity.
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To you insanity, to us not.

I definitely prefer living in a society which has as it's base a dislike of humiliating or oppressing people based on their race, religion, sexual orientation or gender.
 
alexa said:
I think you will find Kaya08 deals with this in posts 48 and 53
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He's talking about discrimination. Discrimination of any kind absolutely should be illegal. Expressing racist, homophobic or misogynist ideas should not be illegal at all. Again, the difference between talking and acting. Once you're no longer just talking but actively denying others their rights, then you've crossed the line.


Yes, things need to cross the line here too
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It's the way it should be. Don't cross the line and you're free to say whatever you wish.



I would imagine they would be able to do quite a lot of change just the same as Nazi Germany managed, if they ever got themselves into that position.
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You give the British people very little credit. I believe you're way better than that.



You missed my post 22
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If the BNP are breaking laws they should be prosecuted. Why haven't they yet? What laws are they breaking in private and if it's private how do you know so much about it?


We have to go within the laws of this country. They have found that not saying things and saying things in a different way - 'that is selling, not selling out' has been an advantage to them. I think you will find Hitler managed his presentation quite similarly.
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Enough with Godwin's law, already.

Britain is NOT Nazi-Germany. Can we please deal with present day reality here? If they cross the line, then arrest them. Otherwise, just counter their arguments with your own. In public.
 
alexa said:
BBC NEWS | Politics | BNP leader pelted in egg protest

He was met by angry ant-fascist protesters and union members who do not believe he has the right for free speech.

It is an interesting situation. I know my own daughter who knows little of politics could not believe it when she heard they were standing for the European Parliament. She felt they should not be allowed to stand.

I have to admit I feel quite pleased when I see this towards the BNP.

He himself of course will be demanding more protection.
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Did anyone get a head shot?
 
Arcana XV said:
You give the British people very little credit. I believe you're way better than that.
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You claimed you had laws which would stop people like the BNP from gaining power in Switzerland. My answer was nothing to do with the British people. It was to do with my not being aware of us having any law which could prevent the BNP from fulfilling their desires if they were able to somehow get into power.

The have already stated on the same you tube talk in which they said they were 'selling, not selling out' that once they got 'control' of the BBC that might not be necessary. They are also intending on banning a lot of outside news. They promote this by illustrating outside news influence which is not popular.


Arcana XV said:
If the BNP are breaking laws they should be prosecuted. Why haven't they yet? What laws are they breaking in private and if it's private how do you know so much about it?
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When they are found they are prosecuted. I gave you a link. Here it is again The real BNP: Scratch the surface and you find the same old racist organisation have a look there. The BBC has made secret films of them agitating violence in Muslim areas and various other things.




Arcana XV said:
Britain is NOT Nazi-Germany. Can we please deal with present day reality here? If they cross the line, then arrest them. Otherwise, just counter their arguments with your own. In public.
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No one is dealing with anything but the present day. There really is very little more to say. It has all been said if you read the rest of the thread.

Egg throwing is not really an enormous crime here anyway. It has been a tradition for a long time. We have no need to like the BNP if we do not and we have every right to make that dislike known in any way we choose within the law.
 
I like the post that free speech requires honest speech. If that were true, then every American president would end up in prison as soon as they left office.

President Clinton said:
I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky, but my cell mate, Bubba, is having a lot of sex with me.
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President Bush said:
Cry me a river, Bill. Bubba is still probing my ass for WMD's, which he has still not found.
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:mrgreen:
 
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alexa said:
You claimed you had laws which would stop people like the BNP from gaining power in Switzerland. My answer was nothing to do with the British people. It was to do with my not being aware of us having any law which could prevent the BNP from fulfilling their desires if they were able to somehow get into power.
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How would they not be prevented from fulfilling their desires with all the anti-racism and anti-discrimination laws you've got in the books? And also with the majority of British people actually backing multiculturalism, unless I'm wrong and they don't really like the status quo.

The have already stated on the same you tube talk in which they said they were 'selling, not selling out' that once they got 'control' of the BBC that might not be necessary. They are also intending on banning a lot of outside news. They promote this by illustrating outside news influence which is not popular.
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What a bunch of clowns. I'd like to see them try this. You give them way too much credit. Which brings me back to my earlier point that the British public would never let this happen. Many right-wing parties in Europe have managed to get themselves elected and none have ever amounted to anything or got anything accomplished while in power. I really don't think that Britain would be the exception to this.




Egg throwing is not really an enormous crime here anyway. It has been a tradition for a long time. We have no need to like the BNP if we do not and we have every right to make that dislike known in any way we choose within the law.
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No one is asking you to like them. All you have to do is tolerate their existence, because like it or not, they are a reality and they do have supporters. Throwing eggs is funny, but intelligent debate would be much more effective in fighting them. It would be so very easy to make them look like the fools they are. I'm surprised they haven't been completely discredited by now.
 
People need to calm down on BNP.

2 seats out of over 700.
Is it threatening? Really?
They can't introduce racial laws so people need to chill.
 
Blunt said:
And I gave you a link the owner of the site you recommend, Gerry gable Is a commie with a criminal record have a look here Searchlight Exposed.com
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I don't see where it says he has a criminal record. Being a communist is not against the law in the UK.

Who owns the site you put me through to - the BNP perhaps?

Edit: LOL here is another BNP member saying it is Labour Party front :rofl

His ‘organisation’ is in receipt of funds from the Labour Party, money from Trades Unions that support the Labour Party. Furthermore, Searchlight has become involved directly in election campaigns by working with Labour Party activists and officers and candidates to attack the BNP.

Confirmation that Searchlight is in fact a Labour Party front organisation, has been confirmed publicly by Liam Smith, a Labour Party election agent in an election in Goresbrook, who was quoted in the media as saying that “(T)he Labour Party, Searchlight and the unions have formed a great team together and this sets us in good stead for next year’s all-out local elections.”
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Gerry Gable’s Searchlight is a Labour Party front Organisation Godhelpus’s Blog

It is a very good site. Why do you think the BNP are working so hard to discredit it.
 
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In November 1963, Gable was arrested and held at Hornsey police station following an attempt to enter the Mayfair flat of David Irving.[4] On January 14, 1964, he admitted entry into the flat by artifice with intent to steal private papers. He was subsequently convicted and fined £28.
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[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Gable]Gerry Gable - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
BTW I don´t support the views of the BNP any more than i do the Apartheid views of Gerry Gable
 
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Arcana XV said:
He's talking about discrimination. Discrimination of any kind absolutely should be illegal. Expressing racist, homophobic or misogynist ideas should not be illegal at all. Again, the difference between talking and acting. Once you're no longer just talking but actively denying others their rights, then you've crossed the line.
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I said by expressing a racist idea or ideology, you wont go down for a term. For example, i could say, "well, i want all Pakistanis out of Britain". Its an opinion. The statement is racist, sure, but they are not directly insulting the race. Racism by insult, as far as we in Britain concerned, IS discrimination, because you are classifing people because of there race, and this should be the case in all nations. If the BNP however, turn around and say, "Oh, your a dirty Indian/Blackface/Polock", then your going to get a prison term, end of.



It's the way it should be. Don't cross the line and you're free to say whatever you wish.
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Being racist is crossing the line.



If the BNP are breaking laws they should be prosecuted. Why haven't they yet? What laws are they breaking in private and if it's private how do you know so much about it?
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I know none of this is directed at me friend, but i just wanted to clear a few things up, and i just explained this part.



Britain is NOT Nazi-Germany. Can we please deal with present day reality here? If they cross the line, then arrest them. Otherwise, just counter their arguments with your own. In public.
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Again, hardliner Ideologies that are pushed by the BNP like the restriction of the rights of all non-whites is an ideology that is racist, sure, but its allowed, and i agree with you, should be countered by arguments of our own. We cannot weather opposition with laws that seem moral on the surface but are actually a tool to combat free speech and opposition. But insulting a persons race isnt an ideology or an opinion, its sheer ignorance, discriminative, and should not be acceptable by any means. I suppose the differences in mental attitude between Americans and European people on this topic is the reason why we disagree with each other, but to us we believe these laws are important, and i suppose when seen from that perspective, there is no wrong or right answer to this situation.
 
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alexa said:
As you can see from the link you gave he is no longer the Editor of Searchlight and has not been since 1998. I think we can assume what is up there now is not his work.
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You are right, he now runs
hopenothate.org.uk
Registrant:
Gerry Gable
Whois
Look I dont want to get into an Internet argument with you over something we probably share, I just wanted to point out the agenda of the site and it´s owner
 
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