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BNP leader pelted in egg protest

Catz Part Deux said:
The BNP is molesting children? Or they are racists? The one is illegal, the other shouldn't be.
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What they do in their own private time I do not know. However I was using it as a metaphor. You know that.;)

As I have already said in the UK we do have laws against racism, holocaust denial and incitement to violence.
 
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Laila said:
Protect yourself using your own damn money Griffin. Maybe get some of your Nazi friends to surround you

I'll admit i'm amused as hell by this. :2wave:
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I am amused too, but not because the guy got pelted with eggs. I am amused because I can now tell Brits how much superior America is to England, and gloat about it. Over here, even complete assholes have freedom of speech. :mrgreen:
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I find this far more disturbing than his views. This is one way in which America is still preferable to the UK. We allow our racists to make themselves publicly ridiculous, without arresting them. And, personally, I have fewer problems with a loud racist than I do with a government deciding what speech is acceptable, and what isn't.
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Tough to differentiate between the extreme left and the extreme right, sometimes, isn't it?
 
alexa said:
What they do in their own private time I do not know. However I was using it as a metaphor. You know that.;)

As I have already said in the UK we do have laws against racism, holocaust denial and incitement to violence.
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I think those are stupid laws, even stupider than pelting people with eggs to silence them, frankly.

The idea of prohibiting free speech for some politically correct notion is morally repugnant to me.
 
danarhea said:
I am amused too, but not because the guy got pelted with eggs. I am amused because I can now tell Brits how much superior America is to England, and gloat about it. Over here, even complete assholes have freedom of speech. :mrgreen:
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Yes, but I seem to remember you were well pissed off at us having Muslim Clerics openly in the streets inciting people to violence. That is what caused the tightening of our laws on free speech.
 
Gardener said:
Tough to differentiate between the extreme left and the extreme right, sometimes, isn't it?
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It's frightening, to tell you the truth, the degree to which both extremes seek to control the thoughts and behaviors of other people.
 
alexa said:
Yes, but I seem to remember you were well pissed off at us having Muslim Clerics openly in the streets inciting people to violence. That is what caused the tightening of our laws on free speech.
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There is a difference between being annoyed and angered by someone's free speech (which happens to me quite often), and thinking that they should be legally SILENCED.

Jesus Christ.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
It's frightening, to tell you the truth, the degree to which both extremes seek to control the thoughts and behaviors of other people.
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We have no thought control police
 
Catz Part Deux said:
There is a difference between being annoyed and angered by someone's free speech (which happens to me quite often), and thinking that they should be legally SILENCED.

Jesus Christ.
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So you would be happy with us still having clerics openly on the street recruiting shoe bombers to blow up planes over American cities.
 
alexa said:
So you would be happy with us still having clerics openly on the street recruiting shoe bombers to blow up planes over American cities.
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There is a difference between a conspiracy to commit a crime, and saying that the U.S. should be bombed. Many people may say that we should be bombed, and while I disagree with them, unless they make actual plans to bomb us, I am not in favor of them being arrested simply for expressing that thought.

We have some limits on free speech, but very few in comparison to the society in which you live.

And, one of the problems with curtailing free speech is that it creates scenarios exactly like the one you describe...it drives such people, and their supporters, underground.

YOu presume that these people voted for these BNP candidates because they didn't know what they were about. I would tell that I think they knew very well what they were voting for, and that their votes were very likely a backlash to having their right to free and open expression of their views about what your country should be curtailed by the government.

When you repress speech, that emotion goes elsewhere, and often in very negative ways.
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
No, I don't believe it should. It's idiotic, but not illegal, in the U.S. A racist ACT might be illegal, but racist thoughts, speech, etc., aren't.
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Why not? To stand in the street and scream at someone "Oi Chocolate face!" or "Popodom", shouldnt be illegal? Its disgusting behaviour and its wrong and it incites hatred. In Britain and alot of Northern/Western European nations, racism is an offence and so it should remain. I dont agree with hate crimes because there is absolutely no need to arrest someone because they are voicing strong opinions against beliefs, but Racism laws i think is completely neccessary, especially in Britain where most regions are very cosmopolitan.
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
If you've prohibited and made illegal certain kinds of speech, then indeed you do. Durr. It's a brave new world you live in, Alexa.
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So the US has people calling people of different races disgusting names and refusing them employment because of this does it. Calling someone a N is completely fine in the Us?
 
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new coup for you said:
Yeah I think British commitment to personal liberties is pretty laughable. How many CCTV cameras do they have?
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Couldn't agree with you more there. And the number of people who have had their DNA taken. We have been very sloppy letting all this happen.
 
alexa said:
So the US has people calling people of different races disgusting manes and refusing them employment because of this does it. Calling someone a N is completely fine in the Us?
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You can call anyone whatever you want, however discrimination in housing or employment is illegal (at least racial discrimination).
 
kaya'08 said:
Why not? To stand in the street and scream at someone "Oi Chocolate face!" or "Popodom", shouldnt be illegal? Its disgusting behaviour and its wrong and it incites hatred. In Britain and alot of Northern/Western European nations, racism is an offence and so it should remain. I dont agree with hate crimes because there is absolutely no need but Racism offences, im for.
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Yeah, in adult societies with a long history of pluralism, we have realized that there is no protection against being offended. So, someone might be able to call me a white bitch, and I'd learn to suck it up and deal.

I don't live my life based upon what random idiots in the streets might think of me. Nor do I think that such things are particularly impactful in comparison to the government deciding what people can, and cannot, say.
 
alexa said:
So the US has people calling people of different races disgusting manes and refusing them employment because of this does it. Calling someone a N is completely fine in the Us?
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Theres an example of a racism offence.
 
alexa said:
So the US has people calling people of different races disgusting names and refusing them employment because of this does it. Calling someone a N is completely fine in the Us?
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I have no problem with it. I also have no problem with somebody calling me a honky. LOL.
 
kaya'08 said:
Theres an example of a racism offence.
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Calling someone names in the U.S. is NOT illegal. Of course, if you call the wrong person the n-word, for instance, they may kick your ass, and a jury may find them innocent of wrong-doing.

It's a calculated risk.

I personally don't use racial slurs because I think doing so marks you as an imbecile, but it's not because it's illegal.

I think the reason that the BNP is gaining traction in your country, frankly, is because a lot of people feel like they are being silenced, and they resent some of the changes that immigration have imposed on the British way of life.

So, in essence, I would call these votes for the BNP a vote against the idea of thought crimes.

I'd rather have someone openly express their racism than have it forced underground to fester.

And in the states, black people call each other the n-word regularly. So, how would you enforce laws against that, precisely? :rofl
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
I think the reason that the BNP is gaining traction in your country, frankly, is because a lot of people feel like they are being silenced, and they resent some of the changes that immigration have imposed on the British way of life.
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The BNP is not gaining anything. They had less votes. They simply got their seats because many people were still in the huff over expenses and so did not vote.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Yeah, in adult societies, we realize that there is no protection against being offended. So, someone might be able to call me a white bitch, and I'd learn to suck it up and deal.
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You cant apply the same logic to every situation such as Anti-Semitism or the use of the N word which isnt the case. Regardless of what society racism takes place in, racial discrimination is happening all the time and regardless if you ignore or not, it will affect you, cause divisions and possibly incite violence. Its morally wrong to allow a society to be racist and get away with it; these laws are implace to protect society from such inappropriate behaviour so there rights of being equal in society can be protected, so that black man can work in this shop, or the white girl can live wherever. That is the society we must promote. Fascist parties and movements gain ground if we do not restrict such speech.

I don't live my life based upon what random idiots in the streets might think of me. Nor do I think that such things are particularly impactful in comparison to the government deciding what people can, and cannot, say.
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The street example was just that, an example, and racism and discrimination can occur anywhere; be it in the work place, or wherever, and can harm and affect you directly.

The UK Race Relations Act 1976 and all of its amendments and extensions protect individuals from being discriminated against in employment on the grounds of colour, race, nationality, religious beliefs or ethnicity. This Act does not distinguish between whether racist practices were done on purpose or not, it is concerned only with the fact that racial discrimination occurred. Four main types of discrimination are described in legislation related to employment. Direct discrimination is deliberate and obvious, for example if a promotion is being held only for members of one race.


Indirect discrimination occurs when practices of policies disadvantage one or more racial groups, such as requiring members of one race to complete more tasks than another but expecting them to get their work done just as quickly. Harassment occurs when the workplace is allowed to become a hostile environment for members of a certain race, whether through direct threats, methods of intimidation or "jokes" about that race.
 
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alexa said:
The BNP is not gaining anything. They had less votes. They simply got their seats because many people were still in the huff over expenses and so did not vote.
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They have seats they did not have. You can :spin: this any way you like. Apparently, their supporters were more motivated to vote than others.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
They have seats they did not have. You can :spin: this any way you like. Apparently, their supporters were more motivated to vote than others.
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That is true extremists always are more motivated to vote than others. However even their vote was down. Hence their support is really down. Their supporters unlike others particularly Labour supporters were not in the huff with them and deliberately not voting for that reason.

The squeezed in on the lowest PR vote to get their seats. Their vote was down That is simply reality.
 
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