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California Considers Flat Tax and Completely Eliminating Welfare

And we get cheaper labor from outside. The tariff should be opposed because it produces inefficiencies. Cheaper labor means we pay less. If the producer pays less then competition ensures that we as consumers will see that reduction in prices.

On this end of the curve, you are correct. The key is proper investment in the right technologies. American workers are among the most efficient in the world. It is the continuing research and development investments that spur our ingenuity.

I believe small business driven by "green" or "efficient" services are the new driving force in years to come.
 
On this end of the curve, you are correct. The key is proper investment in the right technologies. American workers are among the most efficient in the world. It is the continuing research and development investments that spur our ingenuity.

I believe small business driven by "green" or "efficient" services are the new driving force in years to come.

I am always fascinated when people willfully succumb to the failed ideas of "centralized" planning which is what we are seeing from Liberals like Obama.

It reminds me of a story of such thinking that occurred in the Soviet Union and Communist China on many occasions; the central planning committee decided that a shoe factory was not producing enough shoes so they raised their quota to produce shoes. The result was a LOT of shoes that didn't fit anyone; you see, the factory not induced by actual supply and demand deducted that they could produce MORE shoes from the same piece of leather by making smaller shoes.

Without the confines of a "market" and supply and demand, such thinking only produces POOR results and inefficiently uses up scarce resources.

The notion that one can take an inefficient technology and force it onto the society will lead to very POOR results. Example; right now a geothermal energy producer in California has been stifled by trying to get their electricity into the power grid. It seems that Governments and environmentalists, the same ones chanting the green mantra, do not want them to install the power lines that would get the power from the desert where this geothermal energy is being created to the cities.

The notion that "green" technologies can become a viable substitute to oil, gas and nuclear power requires the willing suspension of disbelief. This march to mediocrity will only lead to a further decline in our economy, our ability to manufacture food to feed the world, result in massive unemployment and starvation in the long run if we continue this mythical fantasy called "green technology" and man-caused global warming.

The best most efficient "green" energy technology we have today is nuclear power; good luck getting any of those projects approved these days. The most abundant source of power we have in the US today is coal; good luck getting any coal projects approved these days.
 
I am always fascinated when people willfully succumb to the failed ideas of "centralized" planning which is what we are seeing from Liberals like Obama.

It reminds me of a story of such thinking that occurred in the Soviet Union and Communist China on many occasions; the central planning committee decided that a shoe factory was not producing enough shoes so they raised their quota to produce shoes. The result was a LOT of shoes that didn't fit anyone; you see, the factory not induced by actual supply and demand deducted that they could produce MORE shoes from the same piece of leather by making smaller shoes.

Without the confines of a "market" and supply and demand, such thinking only produces POOR results and inefficiently uses up scarce resources.

The notion that one can take an inefficient technology and force it onto the society will lead to very POOR results. Example; right now a geothermal energy producer in California has been stifled by trying to get their electricity into the power grid. It seems that Governments and environmentalists, the same ones chanting the green mantra, do not want them to install the power lines that would get the power from the desert where this geothermal energy is being created to the cities.

The notion that "green" technologies can become a viable substitute to oil, gas and nuclear power requires the willing suspension of disbelief. This march to mediocrity will only lead to a further decline in our economy, our ability to manufacture food to feed the world, result in massive unemployment and starvation in the long run if we continue this mythical fantasy called "green technology" and man-caused global warming.

The best most efficient "green" energy technology we have today is nuclear power; good luck getting any of those projects approved these days. The most abundant source of power we have in the US today is coal; good luck getting any coal projects approved these days.

You miss my point.... Entirely.

Right now, even in a housing crisis, there are builders creating very energy efficient homes. So tell me, how much did the average heating and air conditioning repairman make in the 1920's? There are going to be new efficient technologies as global competition for energy increases in the following years. Combined with a weakening dollar, the cost of energy is going to rise as we rebound from the recession.

It will probably be labeled Living Efficiency Services.
 
No. Libertarian does automatically mean laissez-faire.

Libertarian means the acceptance of no outside coercion on the invidual and his choices.

Laissez-faire means no outside coercion on businesses.

They're congruent.

Being anti-laissez-faire means being supportive of outside interference in a businessman's choices, which means being supportive of coercion on the indvidual, which means being something that isn't libertarian.

So, if you support government interference in business, you're not a libertarian.

Overall, I can see the rationale for libertarians to believe in a laissez-faire economy, because of the incredible economic growth associated with the system overall. And if you want max of a certain type of freedome, then laissez-faire will supply that.

However, if you want to classify laissez-faire as having no business restraints then you will set yourself up for failure economically and just on a practical system.

REALLY important programs that NO ONE can disagree with if they want high economic growth include regulations for transparency, basic internal improvements (roads and sidewalks) and some system of education for the poor (it can be vouchers). All of those programs can also be at the state or local level too.
Those things either require higher taxes or more regulations which does interfere with businesses.

When America was first founded it had public schools in most states and internal improvements, even if there wasn't as modern businesses that didn't need any transparency regulations.


I consider the larger government, laissez-faire system to be what Adam Smith envisioned (minus his sugar taxes...) and that requires A FEW government involvements that truely do help EVERYONE, and don't persecute the individual.

I just think that libertarians should at least agree with a system like that, which does require some government influence over the private sector.
 
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Is there a point here; or is this another attempt to make some absurd claim there are no Communists?

Is there going to be an answer as to what communists (or which communists) or is this another attempt to deflect from the fact that "communist" is TD-speak for "someone I disagree with"?
 
I contest the claim that with increased foreign involvement that we will lose jobs. That's not how it works. That does not follow from Say's Law: production creates its own demand.

So you take Say's law as gospel? Say's law is irrelevant in a time of credit. How does demand for labor shift so swiftly; credit? LOL... Credit is a concept of free markets, that is manipulated by central banks currently. If anti trust laws are weak (as in the US, UK, EU, and basically all developed economies), monopolies will have the power to influence credit, not the free market.

Price setting legislation is a menace unleashed by the state.

Are you aware of governments presence in copyright laws? How about anti-fraud legislation, is that not government intervention?


But you ignore that the costs necessarily go up. Cheaper labor means we have to spend more. This also means that loans are harder to pay back and that we save less.

This is offset in gains in technology (that lead to efficiency). Who earned more, the massive armies of bridge builders of the late 1890's or the heavy equipment operators of today (include the labor required to produce machinery and skills)? What produced greater economic gain?
 
On this end of the curve, you are correct. The key is proper investment in the right technologies. American workers are among the most efficient in the world. It is the continuing research and development investments that spur our ingenuity.

I believe small business driven by "green" or "efficient" services are the new driving force in years to come.

It's competition that forces us to find cheaper and more efficient ways to produce things. Without that, what's the impetus to become more efficient? That's why we need to encourage competition rather than stifle it.
 
So you take Say's law as gospel? Say's law is irrelevant in a time of credit.

Credit is loaning saved capital. You do realize that when we loan without a physical backing of capital that it is fake and always produces a bubble.

How does demand for labor shift so swiftly; credit? LOL... Credit is a concept of free markets, that is manipulated by central banks currently. If anti trust laws are weak (as in the US, UK, EU, and basically all developed economies), monopolies will have the power to influence credit, not the free market.

You're throughly falling into many fallacies. Credit is something that can only happen with savings in a free market. Without it you get bubbles and all players in that scheme will fail.

Central banks encourage the practice of loaning capital out of thin air and that is why we have bubbles.

Let's assume that a monopoly or trust forms and it starts fractional-reserve lending. They're bound to fail eventually and every company that loaned from them. What will be left is those companies that had 100% or close to it reserve ratios.

Tell me again how you're a libertarian.

Price setting legislation is a menace unleashed by the state.

That's the first libertarian sentement I've heard from you. Unfortunately many people already realize this.

Are you aware of governments presence in copyright laws? How about anti-fraud legislation, is that not government intervention?

The role of the state is protection and to uphold contracts. Anti-fraud would be one of its jobs then. Copyright laws: I'm not so sure how necessary they are. They are overused and last far too long.


This is offset in gains in technology (that lead to efficiency). Who earned more, the massive armies of bridge builders of the late 1890's or the heavy equipment operators of today (include the labor required to produce machinery and skills)? What produced greater economic gain?

I think I misspoke in my quote. Cheaper labor means we spend less and that we can save more.
 
REALLY important programs that NO ONE can disagree with if they want high economic growth include regulations for transparency, basic internal improvements (roads and sidewalks) and some system of education for the poor (it can be vouchers). All of those programs can also be at the state or local level too.
Those things either require higher taxes or more regulations which does interfere with businesses.

:2wave: I disagree.

1. Transparency means no fraud. This is a role of the state since it is supposed to uphold contracts. This is not intervention.

2. We don't need government for internal improvements. The idea of private roads really isn't as crazy as you might think.
A Future of Private Roads and Highways - Walter Block - Mises Institute
The Free Market: Private Roads

3. Experience shows that government involvement in education has been a failure. There is no competition and so no drive for efficiency. Private schools would be much cheaper without the existence of public schools.
 
:2wave: I disagree.

1. Transparency means no fraud. This is a role of the state since it is supposed to uphold contracts. This is not intervention.

Look at what I said. I didn't write that transparency with government intervention isn't need, but simply that it is ideal for economic growth. Therefore, there is no reason why the government shouldn't asisst in that operation.
I get the feeling that the only reason people use is their inherent fear of "socialism" when government action to create more transparency is nothing of the sort, and it also doesn't have any harmful restrictions to a free market.


Also, there needs to at least be the state to enforce fraud, but that is just under the catagory of protecting people's private property.

2. We don't need government for internal improvements. The idea of private roads really isn't as crazy as you might think.
A Future of Private Roads and Highways - Walter Block - Mises Institute
The Free Market: Private Roads

What do you propose? We need to pay to use the street and roads to go across the street???

Both of your links fail to address that problem. If ALL roads were private, then there would need to be a very inneficent and expensive police force to make sure that when someone left their driveway... they had paid to go on that private property.
It is much more efficent to have that government run, odviously. I wouldn't say that for many industries... but for local roads the town government needs to run it.


A truely "limited government" is fine but its this complete privitization of EVERYTHING (almost) that is dangerous.

What is the problem with a local government collecting sales taxes for roads and sidewalks? that isn't rytorical.

3. Experience shows that government involvement in education has been a failure. There is no competition and so no drive for efficiency. Private schools would be much cheaper without the existence of public schools.

You are not addressing what I said. Even if public schools can have poor quality government VOUCHERS can theoretically alleviate that. Are you against vouchers as well?

How would poorer children get the skills to be productive citizens then? Even Singapore and Hong Kong have government assisted schooling.

Once again, there is no reason to not have the government supply schooling one way or another. If someone has a reason to say otherwise, I would love to hear it.
 
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These damn welfare people are going to take all of the Mexican's jobs !!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brj2UkUPjCI]YouTube - they took our jobs[/ame]
 
Look at what I said. I didn't write that transparency with government intervention isn't need, but simply that it is ideal for economic growth. Therefore, there is no reason why the government shouldn't asisst in that operation.
I get the feeling that the only reason people use is their inherent fear of "socialism" when government action to create more transparency is nothing of the sort, and it also doesn't have any harmful restrictions to a free market.

Also, there needs to at least be the state to enforce fraud, but that is just under the catagory of protecting people's private property.

The only reason you would need transparency is if the company is trying to commit fraud. If they try to sell you being a good, solid company that can weather the storm and they're about to go under, then you should sue them to get whatever you deserve that's left.

What do you propose? We need to pay to use the street and roads to go across the street???

These things do cost money to maintain and it would be better that we see the cost of those things.

Both of your links fail to address that problem. If ALL roads were private, then there would need to be a very inneficent and expensive police force to make sure that when someone left their driveway... they had paid to go on that private property.

No, the private companies would ensure that only those who paid used the roads. Liquor stores have cameras and book stores have those scanners. Of course they use the police, but they're not totally inept at handling theft.

It is much more efficent to have that government run, odviously. I wouldn't say that for many industries... but for local roads the town government needs to run it.

I still haven't heard a compelling argument. Government roads have given us potholes, suburbia, and bridges to nowhere. Plus the gas tax is far too low and does not pay for all of our roads. A price system would give us more efficiency.

A truely "limited government" is fine but its this complete privitization of EVERYTHING (almost) that is dangerous.

Well I'm not an anarchist. I want the state to be in charge of the police, military, and judicial system.

What is the problem with a local government collecting sales taxes for roads and sidewalks? that isn't rytorical.

The problem is that it excludes a price system. Anything without a price system is going to be inefficient.

You are not addressing what I said. Even if public schools can have poor quality government VOUCHERS can theoretically alleviate that. Are you against vouchers as well?

Vouchers are better than what we have now because it introduces some competition into the system. However, it is not the role of the state to be a charity.

How would poorer children get the skills to be productive citizens then? Even Singapore and Hong Kong have government assisted schooling.

Charity.

Once again, there is no reason to not have the government supply schooling one way or another. If someone has a reason to say otherwise, I would love to hear it.

The problem is that it is inefficient and it gains the capital it needs via intimidation.
 
The only reason you would need transparency is if the company is trying to commit fraud. If they try to sell you being a good, solid company that can weather the storm and they're about to go under, then you should sue them to get whatever you deserve that's left.



These things do cost money to maintain and it would be better that we see the cost of those things.

Yes, public money can fund it with low taxes and we should be able to see how specifically the money is spent.

No, the private companies would ensure that only those who paid used the roads. Liquor stores have cameras and book stores have those scanners. Of course they use the police, but they're not totally inept at handling theft.



I still haven't heard a compelling argument. Government roads have given us potholes, suburbia, and bridges to nowhere. Plus the gas tax is far too low and does not pay for all of our roads. A price system would give us more efficiency.



Well I'm not an anarchist. I want the state to be in charge of the police, military, and judicial system.



The problem is that it excludes a price system. Anything without a price system is going to be inefficient.



Vouchers are better than what we have now because it introduces some competition into the system. However, it is not the role of the state to be a charity.



Charity.



The problem is that it is inefficient and it gains the capital it needs via intimidation.

I have brought up my reasons for internal improvements before. If you think the government has a specific role that can't be altered by the consent of the people then I want to hear why.

Apparently, it isn't economic growth because besides public local roads and sidewalks being inpractical it also increases efficency compared to a private system.


Just because you claim that the government shouldn't give vouchers, I don't see why you think that way because it gives the poor A CHANCE to have a suscesful life, and it increased economic growth by making the BARE MININUM investment to our population.

And for transparency, why are you against the government allowing us to see how our economy is really working? Is this for principles, do you have a real reason. Once again, this simply increases economic growth and doesn't have any problems, so I am wondering why you don't support this.


You are still WAY to the right of Republicans, but there is no real reason why these basic programs are needed, and untill you explain why the government simply CAN'T help out, these programs aren't negotiable in any government that can afford them.


Even though you say you are not an anarchist, I get the feeling you are against government intervention simply for the sake of being against it. I would like to hear the real reasons for your views.
 
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Yes, public money can fund it with low taxes and we should be able to see how specifically the money is spent.

That's not what I mean. Funding it through a tax is subsidization. We don't see the price when we drive, only when we pay the tax. We'll drive whenever and wherever and be completely ignorant of how much that drive costs. Hence it's subsidized.

I have brought up my reasons for internal improvements before. If you think the government has a specific role that can't be altered by the consent of the people then I want to hear why.

Apparently, it isn't economic growth because besides public local roads and sidewalks being inpractical it also increases efficency compared to a private system.

Because they don't know what roads to build, they won't implement traffic reducing programs (such as congestion pricing), and money is regularly taken from the gas tax and taken to the general fund. Not to mention that paying for something through taxation is immoral since it requires intimidation.

Just because you claim that the government shouldn't give vouchers, I don't see why you think that way because it gives the poor A CHANCE to have a suscesful life, and it increased economic growth by making the BARE MININUM investment to our population.

Charity does that also and by having the government in charity we donate less. In the 1930's during Hoover's presidency the Red Cross actually campaigned against getting the government into social programs.

And for transparency, why are you against the government allowing us to see how our economy is really working? Is this for principles, do you have a real reason. Once again, this simply increases economic growth and doesn't have any problems, so I am wondering why you don't support this.

Because there doesn't need to be any. Companies hide information, that's ther perrogative. However, if they commit fraud by presenting themselves as something that they're not then you should have every right to sue. That should be the extent of transparency.

Do you want your friends and neighbors to know your income and what you spend your money on?

You are still WAY to the right of Republicans, but there is no real reason why these basic programs are needed, and untill you explain why the government simply CAN'T help out, these programs aren't negotiable in any government that can afford them.

Even though you say you are not an anarchist, I get the feeling you are against government intervention simply for the sake of being against it. I would like to hear the real reasons for your views.

I'm actually very leftist if you knew a real scale of politics. The reason is that government is inefficient and they get their funding through intimidation. Two bad things.
 
LOL you should stop listening to Forbes and his crew. Flat tax is a horrible idea and will only benefit the rich.. who funny enough are the ones proposing such idiotic policy. Do the math and you will understand how flat tax hurts the low wage earners much more than it does the multi millionaires proposing such policies.

I don't agree. I went from an average middle income to a higher income because I retired from a law enforcement job after 24 year, and rec'd a good paying IT job because I showed initiative and advance my education and rec'd a master's degree. My tax debt went through the roof!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not rich. Why should I pay more taxes because I advanced myself to support those that can work but don't? I don't mind supporting those that can't work because of age or disability?

A flat tax would make everyone pay the same, e.g. sales taxes, luxury taxes, vehicle registration, etc., and would probably collect more taxes than before. And, would give others an initiative to try to improve their lot and earn more without reprecussions (sic?) from the gov't. Many persons refuse to work and earn more because they know the gov't is going to take it, e.g., many person's will not work over-time because it goes to taxes, persons don't cash in vacation for cash because it goes to taxes.
 
That's not what I mean. Funding it through a tax is subsidization. We don't see the price when we drive, only when we pay the tax. We'll drive whenever and wherever and be completely ignorant of how much that drive costs. Hence it's subsidized.

The single largest tax payers of the roads and highways system are the commerical business that require them to move goods from distribution center to retail space. I speculate that the majority of road use is from business activity (trucking and employment travel). If you really want to get truthful, we have potholes and such because of trucks (who happen to pay hefty fuel taxes). In some instances private roads are great. But the idea of all privately owned roads is like wishing for flying cars.

Because they don't know what roads to build, they won't implement traffic reducing programs (such as congestion pricing), and money is regularly taken from the gas tax and taken to the general fund. Not to mention that paying for something through taxation is immoral since it requires intimidation.

Taxation is immoral:shock: Do you believe speed limits are immoral because intimidation is used to enforce them?

Charity does that also and by having the government in charity we donate less. In the 1930's during Hoover's presidency the Red Cross actually campaigned against getting the government into social programs.

I some what agree. Charity can play a vital role in increasing social welfare. The question is on how you tax such NGO's. Should they be taxed on profit, or an inverse of the level of social value produced?.?.

Because there doesn't need to be any. Companies hide information, that's ther perrogative. However, if they commit fraud by presenting themselves as something that they're not then you should have every right to sue. That should be the extent of transparency.

The business world is not as black and white as you perceive it to be. For instance, a private company does not have to follow the same accounting standards as a publicly traded firm. The reason is simple, when you model assets of that size, they pose a systemic risk in the instance of "changing events". So while the access to capital and liquidity might be an incentive to go public, the accounting standards via regulation are a counter.

Believing the US justice system can handle every case of fraud is inefficient. It makes better sense to have rules to the game. What you are calling for are "no speed limits or traffic rules" in the highways of the financial industry. Such idea's cause carnage. We need "speed limits and traffic rules" in financial systems.

Do you want your friends and neighbors to know your income and what you spend your money on?

Depends on whether i am investing in them. If i loan my neighbor $10,000, i probably want to know how much he makes a week, and how much he spends on living. You know, so the deal is transparent.



I'm actually very leftist if you knew a real scale of politics. The reason is that government is inefficient and they get their funding through intimidation. Two bad things.

The reason government is inefficient is through lack of information. In many instances, markets are better at sifting through good and bad information, and putting it to efficient use. However, you have to consider the goal. Is the goal a better overall national defense, or one that is saddled in profit mode? Is the goal to have a great system of transportation, or is to make the most cost efficient (profitable:mrgreen:)? The world is not black in white.
 
That's not what I mean. Funding it through a tax is subsidization. We don't see the price when we drive, only when we pay the tax. We'll drive whenever and wherever and be completely ignorant of how much that drive costs. Hence it's subsidized.

You are correct that this is a problem with government programs, people take advantage of them without actually understanding how it costs them in taxes.

However, as I said before, the alternative with private local roads would be much worse.

I do support more LARGE private roads because they seem to be more efficent, but my only point is that the government needs to interven in the economy in some areas to make it more efficent.

I wasn't so much going against the idea that the private sector is is more efficenct, but that there is many exceptions where we need the government for things to run as smoothly and efficenctly as they can.

Because they don't know what roads to build, they won't implement traffic reducing programs (such as congestion pricing), and money is regularly taken from the gas tax and taken to the general fund. Not to mention that paying for something through taxation is immoral since it requires intimidation.

This is better then the alternative.

Paying for something by taxes is immoral... so for the sake of your morals that you aren't explaining, you are willing for EVERYONE to suffer from the problems with private local roads and sidewalks.

lol, what is more moral, taxes so I can walk to my friend's house without a permit, or a toll when I leave my house. Lets be practical.

This is similalr to taxes for the mililitary. In theory, it is "immoral" to be persecuted as an individual to pay taxes, but then again without a military we would all be worse off. This is the same concept when the Mayor's office owns local roads. :p

Charity does that also and by having the government in charity we donate less. In the 1930's during Hoover's presidency the Red Cross actually campaigned against getting the government into social programs.

Americans donate the least amount of their GDP then most other developed nations abroad (even commy-Europe) so I don't think reduced charity isn't much of a problem.

Think of it this way, required charity will always get more money then when you have a choice. And it is very important that the poor have good schools to excell, and that they are properly funded. If there is structural problems in the schools (unlike in commy-europe) then that is another problem.

If you have a link, such that there is actually less spending on welfare programs and charity combined after the New Deal, I would like to see that. That is an interesting comment that the Red Cross made.

Because there doesn't need to be any. Companies hide information, that's ther perrogative. However, if they commit fraud by presenting themselves as something that they're not then you should have every right to sue. That should be the extent of transparency.

Do you want your friends and neighbors to know your income and what you spend your money on?

As I said, to maximize economic growth you need transparency programs. I am not talking about the morals of it. If you disagree with me, or say why it is morally wrong, then I would like to hear that.

And I am not proposing an extreme version of transparency, so that moral problem of a loss of privacy wouldn't happen.

I'm actually very leftist if you knew a real scale of politics. The reason is that government is inefficient and they get their funding through intimidation. Two bad things.

Of course there is more left vs right differences with other issues, and that whole spectrum really doesn't make much sense. It was just a quick comment I was making.

But when it comes to the government's role, if you are against publicily owned sidewalks then I can't see how you could support more "economic freedome."
 
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Americans donate the least amount of their GDP then most other developed nations abroad (even commy-Europe) so I don't think reduced charity isn't much of a problem.

Oh, bull****. How much of that koolaid do you swill? Americans aren't stupid, and they're perfectly aware of the abuses of their tax dollars in the areas of foreign aid, the IMF, and other scams. Also, Let's pretend your fact was correct.

They still donate more money.

That's what matters.

Think of it this way, required charity will always get more money then when you have a choice.

Think of it the right way, instead. If you don't have a choice, it's not charity, it's theft.
 
Overall, I can see the rationale for libertarians to believe in a laissez-faire economy, because of the incredible economic growth associated with the system overall. And if you want max of a certain type of freedome, then laissez-faire will supply that.

However, if you want to classify laissez-faire as having no business restraints then you will set yourself up for failure economically and just on a practical system.

REALLY important programs that NO ONE can disagree with if they want high economic growth include regulations for transparency, basic internal improvements (roads and sidewalks) and some system of education for the poor (it can be vouchers). All of those programs can also be at the state or local level too.
Those things either require higher taxes or more regulations which does interfere with businesses.

I consider the larger government, laissez-faire system to be what Adam Smith envisioned (minus his sugar taxes...) and that requires A FEW government involvements that truely do help EVERYONE, and don't persecute the individual.

I just think that libertarians should at least agree with a system like that, which does require some government influence over the private sector.

I could agree with that, but as it is no one is trying to do so.

They want more and more regulations when the old ones were skirted with the help of government officials.

Most of what you have said exists already but isn't enforced.
If anything we would be rolling back laws and bureaucracies.

When America was first founded it had public schools in most states and internal improvements, even if there wasn't as modern businesses that didn't need any transparency regulations.

That isn't exactly true.

I'm not trying to nitpick but public schooling started about 150 years ago.
 
I guess the people they serve will just have to try harder to take care of themselves like they should be in the first place. As for those that literally can't because of a true disability or condition, the Feds are still there to provide support and their families will have to step up their own support. California's astronomical debt is partly due to their overly generous spending on the welfare state in the first place.

Your opinion is ignorant and stupid. Hatred of the poor is the clarion of the right.
 
Oh, bull****. How much of that koolaid do you swill? Americans aren't stupid, and they're perfectly aware of the abuses of their tax dollars in the areas of foreign aid, the IMF, and other scams. Also, Let's pretend your fact was correct.

They still donate more money.

That's what matters.



Think of it the right way, instead. If you don't have a choice, it's not charity, it's theft.

lol u crack me up. you avoided my question. we still donate less of a percent of our GDP. thats what i was confronting

And it is irrelevant if the IMf is harfmul. There is still other types of helpful welfare.
 
lol u crack me up. you avoided my question. we still donate less of a percent of our GDP. thats what i was confronting

And it is irrelevant if the IMf is harfmul. There is still other types of helpful welfare.
but twisting the fact that we donate the most money into whatever ratio can be used to tear down the generosity of the American People is pathetic

want to complain, find a real issue. Americans donate the most money PERIOD. Or maybe Americans should take few days off from being charitable. See how those who bitch and moan feel than
 
lol u crack me up. you avoided my question. we still donate less of a percent of our GDP. thats what i was confronting

Yeah. I read that.

Since we donate more money, what ****ing difference does it make?

We're under no contract to submit x% of our GDP to parasites around the globe. Donate more if you care about them, or donate nothing, if you don't care about them, like me.

The Left is always complaining:

There's too many people in the world.
The United States is evil because it doesn't help all those people.

Well, there's too many people in the world and hence logically the thing to do is to minimize actions that increase the number of people who can't wipe their own asses.

I'm not a Lefty, I use logic.

And it is irrelevant if the IMf is harfmul. There is still other types of helpful welfare.

I don't care. It's not the job of the American taxpayer to feed international charities with his tax dollars, and it's not a requirement upon any citizen to donate money to any charity he doesn't want to.

What part of "free country" did you fail to understand when going to school?
 
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