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Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

I see, it is in the public's best interest to only commit murder where there are no witnesses. I get it.
I said it was less distressing. Do you argue that it is better for people to watch someone being murdered?
 
What is the big problem?

Yes what has happened is horrific in the sense that children got deprived of a father, a wife a husband, Grandfather and the way he was killed was undignified as well.
But the person behind it will face punishment for what he has done.
No matter how much you disagree with Abortion, reacting by killing the doctor is unacceptable and i'm pretty sure 99% of pro lifers agree.

Saying that, Tiller doesn't exactly seem like a lovely human being to me.
Dismembering babies at such a late stage is hardly human like, its almost murder imo. But fate seems to have a way of catching up.
 
You're going to have to realize that a lot of people, while condoning his murder, don't support Tiller's actions and never have.
Good for them, a lot of Taliban find that women learning is abosolutely deplorable an idea.
It really doesn't matter what they think of Tiller's actions, what Tiller did was legal. There was never any wrong doing not any evidence that what tiller did was improper.
The problem with the demonization and vilification of Tiller is that it leads to the belief by those such as the murderer that their vigilanty act was completely legitimate. It's precisely why he's crying corrupt government now. If it is the act that they have issue with what is the point of vilifying Tiller? Take it through the proper means, the constant picketing at abortion clinics and demonization of both employees at and patients who go is nothing short of terrorizing. Abortion, however heinus one thinks of it, is a legal right indifferent to voting and gun ownership.

dclxvinoise said:
Why would they start just because he was killed?
I'm not saying they should start, I'm saying they need to stop demonizing figureheads.

dclxvinoise said:
A lot of people share the belief that he was being protected by corruption in the government. Why should that bother you?
Alot of people also once thought that inter racial relationships and permission of by the government demonstrates a corrupt government. That forcing minorities to be in the same facility and section of the majority was representative of a corrupt goverment.
Unless there is evidence of corruption of the government it's nothing but a irrational belief.

dclxvinoise said:
If you are secure enough in your own beliefs about it, why should you care what other people think?
It's because people like me didn't care that resulted in such act taking place in the first place.
This was not the first case of violence against abortion clinics, and this won't be the last. As long as the practitioners and providers are vilified and demonized as people that enjoy the death of the innocent with the sensationalism and emotion rather than rationalization there will be more and more sufferage and violence.
That's why I need to care.
 
Whether the corruption is actually there or not is irrelevant to your blatant falsehood and attempt to paint talloulou as a terror sympathizer over her post. She did not sypathize with the terrorism; she simply affirmed her belief that there was corruption shielding Tiller.

But I do understand the need for the weak-minded to resort to boorish tactics like vilification when their arguments fall short on logic so I will overlook your attempt at such from here on.
If I got a penny for every time you come on here playing your I'm going to iggy you routine.
Nice to see how some people never change.
 
If I got a penny for every time you come on here playing your I'm going to iggy you routine.
Nice to see how some people never change.

Again, you lie. Where did I say I was going to "iggy" you? I simply stated that I would overlook your decietful attempts to reframe debates in false terms. I give you that leniency because I have learned that you simply cannot help yourself because you want to play with your intellectual superiors so badly you'll do anything to stay in the game. :shrug:
 
I agree a corrupt government in Kansas buffered Tiller from the law. I believe a corrupt governor in exchange for campaign funding vetoed a law that passed the Kansas state legislator. I also believe a corrupt DA fired a state prosecutor so he could replace him with someone who was more favorable to the agenda of continuing to let Tiller skirt the law.

I believe all that. So does the guy who killed Tiller. In that respect him and I are in agreement.

Would I have killed Dr. Tiller myself? No.

Would I have advocated that someone else should kill him? No.

Do I think killing him was the right thing to do? No.

Do I think the guy in jail should not be treated like a criminal? No.

Did I hum ding dong the witch is dead upon hearing of Tiller's death? Yep.

Do I think Tiller was a monster? Yep.

I won't apologize for that.

In my mind Tiller is no more worthy of my tears or concern than a serial killer.

I would have preferred the law deal with Tiller in a lawful manner but I can't say I'm upset some whacko took him out. If a guy is gonna grab a gun and kill someone - Tiller was a good choice.
Why would tiller be a good choice when Tiller did nothing wrong?
If it is the government that is corrupt that allowed such acts to take place how can the fault rest with someone that is following the law? If it is the DA and governor that are so corrupt than the one that should be taken out would be those two as well as state legislatures and government employees of the last 30+ years.
 
jfuh, do you not see my lolz in my original post? That is in reference to the guy being surprised he is being treated like a criminal.
It's difficult to see that it's laughing at him rather than with him when it's followed by "I agree with him". Clarification would've been helpful.
 
Why would tiller be a good choice when Tiller did nothing wrong?

Just because he did nothing "illegal" doesn't mean he didn't do anything "wrong". Killing babies for profit falls under "wrong".
 
I would have preferred the law deal with Tiller in a lawful manner but I can't say I'm upset some whacko took him out. If a guy is gonna grab a gun and kill someone - Tiller was a good choice.

That is the slipperiest of slopes...And what you're slipping on is dark red...

I mean who's next. I feel the same way about pedophiles. What about serial rapists? Wife beaters? Child abusers? White collar criminals like Madoff?

Remember, in our society, Dr. Tiller wasn't any of these. He wasn't even a criminal in the eyes of the law. In our society, He was an innocent victim persecuted by a fringe group and murdered by a rouge member.

This act will stall any positive changes in the late-term laws. Roeder did not save lives.
 
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Why would tiller be a good choice when Tiller did nothing wrong?
If it is the government that is corrupt that allowed such acts to take place how can the fault rest with someone that is following the law? If it is the DA and governor that are so corrupt than the one that should be taken out would be those two as well as state legislatures and government employees of the last 30+ years.

jfuh, I understand your indignation with my response. I understand it because I have the very same indignation towards folks who refuse to acknowledge the governor of Kansas essentially made the 22 week cut off on the books -moot. I have the same indignation every time I read an article memorializing Tiller for being a hero, a purveyor of womens rights.

Be disgusted with me, I don't mind. I get it. I have the same disgust and disdain for anyone daring to call that monster a hero.

Just don't put words in my mouth or attempt to assert I support terrorism.

If some whacko took out Kathleen Sebelius I wouldn't shed tears over that either. I view her more as a sell out and corrupt politician though vs Tiller - who I saw as a psychotic sadist.
 
Just because he did nothing "illegal" doesn't mean he didn't do anything "wrong". Killing babies for profit falls under "wrong".
Wrong is a matter of perspective.
He provided the service to women who needed the service. In the majority of cases the women wanted the pregnancy but due to medical complications had no other choice but to have the proceedure.
This is not neccessarily true with younger patients where it is a different story.
As for profits, Tiller very often provided his service free of charge to those who could not otherwise afford the proceedure. Also on profits, how then do you expect such a clinic to stay in business if it is not profitable? Any business requires profit to stay in business, much more to expand. Whatever Tiller's profits were, from what is visible, they were marginal and just enough to stay open.
 
That is the slipperiest of slopes...And what you're slipping on is dark red...

I mean who's next. I feel the same way about pedophiles. What about serial rapists? Wife beaters? Child abusers? White collar criminals like Madoff?

Remember, in our society, Dr. Tiller wasn't any of these. He wasn't even a criminal in the eyes of the law. In our society, He was an innocent victim persecuted by a fringe group and murdered by a rouge member.

This act will stall any positive changes in the late-term laws. Roeder did not save lives.

If a private citizen killed a serial killer, a rapist, etc nobody would be on hear bitching about folks laughing and refusing to cry. Nobody. In my mind Tiller is that type of scum.

If I said the killer did not deserve to be punished, did not deserve to be held accountable for killing Tiller then you'd have a point. I have no problem whatsoever with the law throwing the book at this guy.

But on certain points - crazy as this guy probably is - he was right about the corruption within the Kansas government.

I disagree with the bolded part. There were already only 3 drs willing to go to the lengths Tiller did. Now there's only two and I don't even know if those two skirt laws like Tiller did.
 
Wrong is a matter of perspective.

In some instances.

He provided the service to women who needed the service.

Yes, and the murder of babies in utero is a service that is wrong.

In the majority of cases the women wanted the pregnancy but due to medical complications had no other choice but to have the proceedure.
This is not neccessarily true with younger patients where it is a different story.

OK, so I overlook the majority of cases. Even one case of murdering a baby is enough to forever turn my opinion of a man...

As for profits, Tiller very often provided his service free of charge to those who could not otherwise afford the proceedure. Also on profits, how then do you expect such a clinic to stay in business if it is not profitable? Any business requires profit to stay in business, much more to expand. Whatever Tiller's profits were, from what is visible, they were marginal and just enough to stay open.

Please provide proof of these claims.
 
Wrong is a matter of perspective.
He provided the service to women who needed the service. In the majority of cases the women wanted the pregnancy but due to medical complications had no other choice but to have the proceedure.

This is unverifiable.

This is not neccessarily true with younger patients where it is a different story.
As for profits, Tiller very often provided his service free of charge to those who could not otherwise afford the proceedure. Also on profits, how then do you expect such a clinic to stay in business if it is not profitable? Any business requires profit to stay in business, much more to expand. Whatever Tiller's profits were, from what is visible, they were marginal and just enough to stay open.

Tiller was a millionaire because unlike other drs. he would not turn a woman away no matter how far along she was and he charged $5000 a pop.
 
It's difficult to see that it's laughing at him rather than with him when it's followed by "I agree with him". Clarification would've been helpful.

Clarification came immediately in the next sentence. How is it my fault you stopped reading after one line?
 
jfuh, I understand your indignation with my response. I understand it because I have the very same indignation towards folks who refuse to acknowledge the governor of Kansas essentially made the 22 week cut off on the books -moot. I have the same indignation every time I read an article memorializing Tiller for being a hero, a purveyor of womens rights.

Be disgusted with me, I don't mind. I get it. I have the same disgust and disdain for anyone daring to call that monster a hero.

Just don't put words in my mouth or attempt to assert I support terrorism.

If some whacko took out Kathleen Sebelius I wouldn't shed tears over that either. I view her more as a sell out and corrupt politician though vs Tiller - who I saw as a psychotic sadist.
What I'm saying is very simple. It is this sort of demonization and vilification that allows for this very sort of vigilantism.
You can be angry at the proceedure, you can be angry that the legal process is not in your favor. But when you vilify unjustly and without evidence other than your own bias or prejudice what it results in is the legitimization of heinus acts by just these sorts of terrorists.

For example, if you said, I understand why the 9/11 hijackers would dive bomb into the world trade towers and I agree that the government is corrupt and protective of oil companies and dictators of the ME. How is that different from what you are saying here?

On the other hand if your comment was, abortion is a heinus act that feeds frustration and anger for the killing of innocent which I would hope would be more of what you are trying to argue. That would be on par with I understand why people in the Islamic world have such hatred for America.

My indignation is not with your position towards abortion, but towards your vilification and demonization of Tiller and co.
 
What I'm saying is very simple. It is this sort of demonization and vilification that allows for this very sort of vigilantism.

Absolutely not. If I say I can't stand someone and list all my reasons why that person makes me sick and you agree and go kill that person that is ON YOU. Nobody else.
 
In some instances.
Yes, and the murder of babies in utero is a service that is wrong.
Even at the expense of the mother? The baby should be spared at the expense of the mother?

jallman said:
OK, so I overlook the majority of cases. Even one case of murdering a baby is enough to forever turn my opinion of a man...
No one has late term abortions just to get their murder kicks.

jallman said:
Please provide proof of these claims.
Dr. Tiller’s Important Job - Judith Warner Blog - NYTimes.com
“He took her for free,” she said. “He kept her three days. He checked her himself every few hours. She and her sister came back to me and said he couldn’t have been more wonderful. That’s just the way he was.”
 
This is unverifiable.
No one has a late term abortion just for kicks.

talloulou said:
Tiller was a millionaire because unlike other drs. he would not turn a woman away no matter how far along she was and he charged $5000 a pop.
Most physicians are quite wealthy but unless you are vilifying wealth as well now there is no argument just on the wealth itself.
As for "did not turn a woman away no matter how long" That's the entire point of a late term abortion. It's late term of course it's going to be far along. That it is far along is no grounds for turning away a woman.
Let's not forget the fact that women only went to Dr. Tiller as a last resort, they had no other choice.
 
Clarification came immediately in the next sentence. How is it my fault you stopped reading after one line?
The "clarification"reinforced the notion of letigimization of the killing - hence terror sympathy.
 
Let's not forget the fact that women only went to Dr. Tiller as a last resort, they had no other choice.

Of course he was a last resort. That's certainly nothing to be proud of...that he would murder any baby no matter what.


"Tiller's Abortion Clinic...No Fetus Can Beat us!!!!"

Yeah...it would be nice to verify that she had no other choice, but you know...there's that corrupt government protection issue again. Damn, funny how that works out.
 
If what Tiller was doing was so wrong, it was the job of authorities to change the law.

The Partial Birth Abortion ban in the U.S. tried to bypass Roe v. Wade by outlawing a specific procedure for late term abortion. Tiller bypassed this by performing a different form of late term abortion that had nothing to do with the Federal law. Kansas could have clarified the Partial Birth Abortion ban further by outlawing his particular procedure, but it didn't.

Fact is, Tiller was following the law. I know there is always the moral question of his actions, but it wasn't the job of some psycho to be judge, jury, and executioner.
 
Absolutely not. If I say I can't stand someone and list all my reasons why that person makes me sick and you agree and go kill that person that is ON YOU. Nobody else.
If you say you don't like someone, list all the reasons, and proclaim that this person is a demon, a murder and monster, yes that insinuates that you think this person ought be killed.

Frank Schaeffer: How I (and Other "Pro-Life" Leaders) Contributed to Dr. Tiller's Murder
Doctor Was Target of O’Reilly’s Rhetoric - The Lede Blog - NYTimes.com
 
I believe he killed a baby for free. That's not what I meant. I meant that I would like to see where Tiller was barely scraping by because by all other accounts, he was rolling in dough.
I have no evidence nor claim of that.
My only judgement was based on the fact of what I have seen of Tiller's clinic, it's not exactly state of the art in contrast to the clinics of various other physicians who do make it by very well.
What evidence do you have that he "rolled in dough"?
 
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