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Man accused of killing abortion doc says he's being 'treated like a criminal'

If you say you don't like someone, list all the reasons, and proclaim that this person is a demon, a murder and monster, yes that insinuates that you think this person ought be killed.

Frank Schaeffer: How I (and Other "Pro-Life" Leaders) Contributed to Dr. Tiller's Murder
Doctor Was Target of O’Reilly’s Rhetoric - The Lede Blog - NYTimes.com

Well jfuh, as many times as I have openly made my case for why I think you are a despicable person, I would still be outraged if someone came along and murdered you. Stating you don't like someone and the reasons why does not translate in any way to "you should go kill them".
 
Of course he was a last resort. That's certainly nothing to be proud of...that he would murder any baby no matter what.

"Tiller's Abortion Clinic...No Fetus Can Beat us!!!!"

Yeah...it would be nice to verify that she had no other choice, but you know...there's that corrupt government protection issue again. Damn, funny how that works out.
For someone that claims to be feverishly pro-choice, I'm not getting much of that from you. Seems your hatred for me trumps any position you hold.
But anyway, yes, let's forget about doctor patient confidentiality because you have issue with it for the purpose of sensationalism.
Let me know when you're done ranting and are capable of a serious argument.
 
I have no evidence nor claim of that.
My only judgement was based on the fact of what I have seen of Tiller's clinic, it's not exactly state of the art in contrast to the clinics of various other physicians who do make it by very well.
What evidence do you have that he "rolled in dough"?

Well he was a multimillionaire and his service was 5000-6000 USD a pop. He performed over 60,000 of them in his career, not to mention the other services he provided. As you said, his clinic wasn't exactly state of the art so he wasn't dumping the money back into it. Of course, it doesn't really take a lot of high tech equipment to crush a baby skull, squirt it with drano, and rip the body out piece by piece so I can see why he didn't waste money on modern equipment. :shrug:
 
For someone that claims to be feverishly pro-choice, I'm not getting much of that from you. Seems your hatred for me trumps any position you hold.
But anyway, yes, let's forget about doctor patient confidentiality because you have issue with it for the purpose of sensationalism.
Let me know when you're done ranting and are capable of a serious argument.

Um, I was having a reasonable argument. And we already covered how doctor patient confidentiality isn't even at stake here. Redacted medical records are released all the time for statistical purposes. I see no reason why specific medical reasons for the abortions could not be listed along with doctor signatures.

And you know full well I am prochoice. I have stated many many times that I am against partial birth abortions, like many many prochoicers. This is basically another attempt by jfuh to obfuscate the issues by reframing the debate around your opponent rather than the issues being raised. Of your entire post, only one phrase was about the topic and the rest spoke only to vilifying and lying about me.

Why is that jfuh? Why can't you make the entire post about the topic and not about your opponent?
 
Well jfuh, as many times as I have openly made my case for why I think you are a despicable person, I would still be outraged if someone came along and murdered you. Stating you don't like someone and the reasons why does not translate in any way to "you should go kill them".
I didn't say the two were equal or translatable, I said it contributes to the legitimization of the act. Particularily when it's not just you alone but a mob of individuals all demonizing/vilifying the same person. Equating them with mass murders like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Po Pot and co.
I've no issue with killing the likes of those because they are demons.
Dr. Tiller was no one of the sort, he did not commit any such attrocities, by no means a murder and by no means a psycopath that got his kicks out of a neccessary evil.
For if you are to demonize Dr. Tiller in this fashion, what then of the physicians that administer lethal injections for the death penalty? By that very same standard they too are murder's. Where is the outcry, where is the demonization and vilification? Why the double standard?
 
I didn't say the two were equal or translatable, I said it contributes to the legitimization of the act. Particularily when it's not just you alone but a mob of individuals all demonizing/vilifying the same person. Equating them with mass murders like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Po Pot and co.
I've no issue with killing the likes of those because they are demons.
Dr. Tiller was no one of the sort, he did not commit any such attrocities, by no means a murder and by no means a psycopath that got his kicks out of a neccessary evil.
For if you are to demonize Dr. Tiller in this fashion, what then of the physicians that administer lethal injections for the death penalty? By that very same standard they too are murder's. Where is the outcry, where is the demonization and vilification? Why the double standard?

What double standard? Ohhhh, you mean why don't I hold lethal injections of murderers against the doctors who perform them as instruments of the state but show outrage over a physician who kills little babies in the womb to turn a profit? Do I really have to explain the difference?
 
Well he was a multimillionaire and his service was 5000-6000 USD a pop. He performed over 60,000 of them in his career, not to mention the other services he provided. As you said, his clinic wasn't exactly state of the art so he wasn't dumping the money back into it. Of course, it doesn't really take a lot of high tech equipment to crush a baby skull, squirt it with drano, and rip the body out piece by piece so I can see why he didn't waste money on modern equipment. :shrug:
Other than you saying so, do you have factual evidence to support your claim?
60,000 over 30+ years, let's just say 60,000 over 30 that's 2000 per year which is ~ 6per day were he open every day of the year which translates into $30,000 per month and an annual income of no more than $360,000. Not exactly rolling in dough if it were his sole salary.
That is if he charged for every single one of his patients (which we know he did not).

By what you are going by alone, it would suggest he didn't pay utilities, he didn't pay wages, he didn't pay registration fees, sterilization fees or any form of maintainance fees. Sounds like a good bargain, how can I start a business that doesn't need to pay any of those fees?
I wouldn't exactly call a business that makes just $30,000 a year a large profitable operation.
 
What double standard? Ohhhh, you mean why don't I hold lethal injections of murderers against the doctors who perform them as instruments of the state but show outrage over a physician who kills little babies in the womb to turn a profit? Do I really have to explain the difference?
Killing is killing - be it by crushing one's skull, shooting a bullet through the skull, lethal injection or decapitation the result is all the same. The only variance is you can feel better about yourself when the day is done because of being less grotesque.
Do not the physicians who perform the lethal injections for the state turn a profit or just for free?
 
Other than you saying so, do you have factual evidence to support your claim?
60,000 over 30+ years, let's just say 60,000 over 30 that's 2000 per year which is ~ 6per day were he open every day of the year which translates into $30,000 per month and an annual income of no more than $360,000. Not exactly rolling in dough if it were his sole salary.
That is if he charged for every single one of his patients (which we know he did not).

By what you are going by alone, it would suggest he didn't pay utilities, he didn't pay wages, he didn't pay registration fees, sterilization fees or any form of maintainance fees. Sounds like a good bargain, how can I start a business that doesn't need to pay any of those fees?
I wouldn't exactly call a business that makes just $30,000 a year a large profitable operation.

There's been no refutation that Tiller's clinic was profitable and that he made a very nice chunk of change performing abortions.

60,000 was the number of partial birth abortions that has been reported all over the news. I specifically said "in addition to other services". I notice how you gloss over pretty much everything said in an effort to use some very creative accounting to obfuscate the debate again with deception and lies. I also notice how you attempted to send me on a quote mining expedition in order to avoid the point of the argument. It's not going to work jfuh. Speak to the issues raised or don't. But do not keep attempting to make this about me or to cloud the issues with your fuzzy math.
 
Killing is killing - be it by crushing one's skull, shooting a bullet through the skull, lethal injection or decapitation the result is all the same. The only variance is you can feel better about yourself when the day is done because of being less grotesque.
Do not the physicians who perform the lethal injections for the state turn a profit or just for free?

No, all killing is not equal. You refuted the argument that all killing is equal when you argued that Tiller was innocent because the law said he was. Are you gonna backpedal now?
 
There's been no refutation that Tiller's clinic was profitable and that he made a very nice chunk of change performing abortions.
No one has denied he was profitable, what I'm asking is for you to support your claim that he was "rolling in dough", specifically rolling in dough because of the abortion service he provided.

jallman said:
60,000 was the number of partial birth abortions that has been reported all over the news. I specifically said "in addition to other services". I notice how you gloss over pretty much everything said in an effort to use some very creative accounting to obfuscate the debate again with deception and lies. I also notice how you attempted to send me on a quote mining expedition in order to avoid the point of the argument. It's not going to work jfuh. Speak to the issues raised or don't. But do not keep attempting to make this about me or to cloud the issues with your fuzzy math.
Other services that are not abortion related are irrelevant to the argument at hand.
You guys who are demonizing simply say he's rolling in dough, you've continually asserted unapologetically that he murders baby's for profit emphasizing on the $5000 per. Well to give any form of honest rationale argument without the sensational **** you attitude that what you say is indeed truthful.
So far all you have is sensationalist responses mixed in with your bigotry towards me.
 
Killing is killing

Yes, killing is killing; this a quite the profound statement, but what it fails to consider is that all important thing called "context". The method one utilizes in order to kill is barely relevant to its moral legitimacy; the victim and the justification for the killing are what truly matters.

In this case, we have a monstrous butcher who was killed by a whacko. Was it justified? No. Is it a tragedy...:rofl...no. You drew a false parallel between state-sanctioned capital punishment and vigilantism in order to twist the issue.

Good riddance, Tiller! See you in hell!
 
No, all killing is not equal. You refuted the argument that all killing is equal when you argued that Tiller was innocent because the law said he was. Are you gonna backpedal now?
I know you love to vilify and argue just for the sake of argument alone and vilifying me because of your vile hatred of. So let me make this as simple as possible for you.
Tiller is innocent as far as legalities go. He is not innocent on the grounds of killing.
Killing is killing is killing, be it you drop a bomb from 5000 ft, or gutting a man with a knife. The value of pushing a button vs actually cutting with your own hands and in turn perception of may be different. But the results are no less identical.
 
Damn, foiled again. I just let him reframe the debate around me by even bothering to acknowledge the bigotry response. Which is exactly what he went for.
 
What? Where have I shown any bigotry toward you in this debate? :confused:
:rofl Let's not kid ourselves around here jall, you're distaste of me is quite notoriouslly well known on this forum. You made your bigotry quite evident the moment I posted in this thread.
 
I know you love to vilify and argue just for the sake of argument alone and vilifying me because of your vile hatred of. So let me make this as simple as possible for you.
Tiller is innocent as far as legalities go. He is not innocent on the grounds of killing.
Killing is killing is killing, be it you drop a bomb from 5000 ft, or gutting a man with a knife. The value of pushing a button vs actually cutting with your own hands and in turn perception of may be different. But the results are no less identical.

So then killing a baby with a vacuum hose and blender is the same as giving a lethal injection to a criminal? That's what you are saying?
 
Damn, foiled again. I just let him reframe the debate around me by even bothering to acknowledge the bigotry response. Which is exactly what he went for.
Ah yes, because of course, you're all important and need to have all the attention, the moment you make an edit or make a post we must hail and respond immediately and accordingly.
Heil jall
 
:rofl Let's not kid ourselves around here jall, you're distaste of me is quite notoriouslly well known on this forum. You made your bigotry quite evident the moment I posted in this thread.

So, then, you don't really want to discuss the topic, as I have been trying to do, and you would rather discuss this imagined persecution of you by me and some supposed bigotry I have toward you?

Understood. I will just chalk this up to a cut and run on your part from here on. Unless you can get back on topic, that is.
 
So then killing a baby with a vacuum hose and blender is the same as giving a lethal injection to a criminal? That's what you are saying?
No, performing an abortion that results in the killing of a baby be it with a vacuum hose or blender (which no one does but jall is always right so be it) is the same thing as killing via lethal injection to a criminal.
 
No, performing an abortion that results in the killing of a baby be it with a vacuum hose or blender (which no one does but jall is always right so be it) is the same thing as killing via lethal injection to a criminal.

That's exactly what I just said...
 
So, then, you don't really want to discuss the topic, as I have been trying to do, and you would rather discuss this imagined persecution of you by me and some supposed bigotry I have toward you?

Understood. I will just chalk this up to a cut and run on your part from here on. Unless you can get back on topic, that is.
:rofl imagine bigotry? Is that why you continue with the racist posts in the basement of me? Is that why the first response you shoot towards me in this thread was to call me a liar? Jall, at least be man enough to admit your own doings.
 
:rofl imagine bigotry? Is that why you continue with the racist posts in the basement of me? Is that why the first response you shoot towards me in this thread was to call me a liar? Jall, at least be man enough to admit your own doings.

alright, I see the meltdown is complete. There is no point in even trying to continue this.
 
Yes, killing is killing; this a quite the profound statement, but what it fails to consider is that all important thing called "context". The method one utilizes in order to kill is barely relevant to its moral legitimacy; the victim and the justification for the killing are what truly matters.
That is for the moral justification and legitimacy, not for the act itself.

Ethereal said:
In this case, we have a monstrous butcher who was killed by a whacko. Was it justified? No. Is it a tragedy...:rofl...no. You drew a false parallel between state-sanctioned capital punishment and vigilantism in order to twist the issue.
Monstrous butcher would only be applicable were it that Tiller enjoyed the act or actively sought to perform the act for the sake of nothing more than the enjoyment of killing. As that is not what transpired by any lengths this demonization and terrorist sympathization of is a direct contributing factor to the murderous act.
 
That's exactly what I just said...
No it is not exactly what you just said.
Killing a baby with vaccum hose or blender is an illegal act.
The killing of the fetus that results from an abortion is a legally protected right.
For someone whom claims to be feverishly pro-choice I thought you'd understand the difference.
Be it intentionally or unintentionally I was not going to let you putting words into my mouth for the advocacy of killing babies just for kicks.
 
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