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UK and Netherlands vote in EU election

Tarnish? So you are saying that the United Kingdom Independence Party are not a nationalist group? Could have fooled me that is for sure. They claim to be a libertarian political party, in other words they cant or wont call themselves conservatives but in essence they are right wing. They call themselves "non-racist" to distinguish themselves from BNP, but we all know that in Europe the racist parties are almost universal right wing parties, and many of them are hiding behind a legitimacy of calling themselves "non racist". Le Pen's party calls it self as non racist.. and do you seriously believe they are?
Pathetic. Not all right-wing parties are racist, and neither all racists parties are left wing. The Nazi party in Germany itself is for health care, liberal foreign policy, and public ownership of private property. Hardly conservative.

Again, pathetic, as usual.
 
I'm saying they're not a far-right nationalist group, which was your original unsupported assertion. The term nationalist is vague.

The hell it is vague. Nationalist is someone who prefers his or her nation, national identity, customs and so on, over anyone's else and will do anything to keep the area he or she is in as "pure" as possible and free from outside influence.

So? The Tories are supposedly as well. Only to the hyperpartisan is rightwing the same as the far-right like the BNP.

The Tories are conservatives. You can not just make up a new name for the same people, because some or part of the political sphere are suddenly unpopular. I know the US conservatives have done so with their libertarian bs, but this party is a conservative party. Their problem is they cant call themselves "conservative" since they would not be seen as "different" or an alternative to the Conservative party. And yet with the "libertarian" sticker they still dont get any support outside these elections because no one knows what the hell they stand for. And by the way almost every country has such a party, some more successful than others. National Front in France (Le Pen) is the French version. Does not change the fact that it is a conservative party with highly xenophobic borderline racist policies on many issues.

Is this supposed to prove your previous hyperpartisan slur? It doesn't even attempt to deal with it.

If one looks at UKIP they are not far-right at all. They are simply very similar to quite mainstream conservative or libertarian-conservative currents in England with an extra appeal to anyone Eurosceptic. To attempt tarnish them by linking them with the far-right and BNP, particularly when there is no attempt to even back it up, is simply hyperpartisan hackery.

Give me a break. UKIP is a nationalist party, there is no doubt about that. Just look at what they call themselves. And you can not be a nationalist party without having certain "racist" and xenophobic aspects. And you can not deny that UKIP is not xenophobic.. they want to ban all immigration
for 5 years for god sake!

You have 2 types of nationalist parties.

You have the xenophobic nationalist parties. These parties are the PC versions of the out right racist parties. The difference is in how they promote their views but in principle there aint that big a difference. These parties advocate the national identity over everything. They dont want anyone telling them what to do, and are sceptical of almost every single international agreement that puts some sort of "burden" on the nation.. real or not. In principle they could be against things like the Postal treaties or telecommunications treaties that give out country codes.. why dont we have the country code 1? These parties also advocate next to none or zero immigration, especially from "certain countries". These certain countries change over time. During the 50s and 60s it was the Spanish and Portuguese, now it is the Polish and people outside Europe. But it is always targeted against people with different traditions, who look different and speak different languages. These parties are often also highly fascist.

Finally you have the out right racist parties like the BNP. They dont care how they are viewed and use inflammatory rhetoric to spread their views. Out with Muslims and so on. These are the neo nazi parties across Europe.

Now members of both groups often overlap, and have so between the BNP and UKIP.

No matter how you look at it, the similarities between the BNP and UKIP are striking. Both are xenophobic, blame foreigners for all the problems, and want to get rid of "non British" people.
 
The hell it is vague. Nationalist is someone who prefers his or her nation, national identity, customs and so on, over anyone's else and will do anything to keep the area he or she is in as "pure" as possible and free from outside influence.
The first part is simply someone who believes in national sovereignty. The latter is you meaningless bias.

The Tories are conservatives. You can not just make up a new name for the same people, because some or part of the political sphere are suddenly unpopular. I know the US conservatives have done so with their libertarian bs, but this party is a conservative party. Their problem is they cant call themselves "conservative" since they would not be seen as "different" or an alternative to the Conservative party. And yet with the "libertarian" sticker they still dont get any support outside these elections because no one knows what the hell they stand for.
Conservative is an ideology as well as a party. UKIP simply embodies certain ideals that fall well within the mainstream of both this ideology and party and yet don't get enough support by the party bosses in some people's eyes.

And by the way almost every country has such a party, some more successful than others. National Front in France (Le Pen) is the French version.
Rubbish, UKIP are not a far-right party and you have provided nothing to show they are.

Does not change the fact that it is a conservative party with highly xenophobic borderline racist policies on many issues.
This is an assertion not proof from someone who is extremely universalist, seemingly an enemy of national sovereignty and is out to tarnish anyone who does not believe in a federal EU.



Give me a break. UKIP is a nationalist party, there is no doubt about that.
So? Nationalist is a vague term, it includes those on the left and right and many different viewppints.
And you can not be a nationalist party without having certain "racist" and xenophobic aspects.
Rubbish, they are only racist and xenophobic to rabidly PC and universalist liberals.

And you can not deny that UKIP is not xenophobic.. they want to ban all immigration
for 5 years for god sake!
They want reduced immigration, so do most Brits. That does not make them far-right or the same as the BNP. You are simply engaging in hyperpartisan labeling of your opponents in a pathetic attempt to discredit them.

You have 2 types of nationalist parties.

You have the xenophobic nationalist parties. These parties are the PC versions of the out right racist parties. The difference is in how they promote their views but in principle there aint that big a difference. These parties advocate the national identity over everything. They dont want anyone telling them what to do, and are sceptical of almost every single international agreement that puts some sort of "burden" on the nation.. real or not. In principle they could be against things like the Postal treaties or telecommunications treaties that give out country codes.. why dont we have the country code 1? These parties also advocate next to none or zero immigration, especially from "certain countries". These certain countries change over time. During the 50s and 60s it was the Spanish and Portuguese, now it is the Polish and people outside Europe. But it is always targeted against people with different traditions, who look different and speak different languages. These parties are often also highly fascist.

Finally you have the out right racist parties like the BNP. They dont care how they are viewed and use inflammatory rhetoric to spread their views. Out with Muslims and so on. These are the neo nazi parties across Europe.

Now members of both groups often overlap, and have so between the BNP and UKIP.

No matter how you look at it, the similarities between the BNP and UKIP are striking. Both are xenophobic, blame foreigners for all the problems, and want to get rid of "non British" people.
Is this supposed to be some kind of argument? It looks like a barely coherent rant, yet another absurd attempt at guilt by associations where the association doesn't really exist and massively PC inaccuracy and hyperbole based on left-liberal, universalist and EUrophile politics.

What you are saying is conservative politics, an opposition to mass immigration and a respect for national sovereignty and identity are xenophobic and racist and in any measure simply a water-down version of fascism without showing any proof for these outrageous assertions. That these are common and common sense positions you do not take into account, that those who profess them can be very different and hostile to the far-right you do not even consider. It is just a case of massive hyperpartisan hackery.

You have given zero amount of evidence or serious arguments to show that UKIP is a far-right nationalist group or linked the BNP. Pathetic.
 
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Pathetic. Not all right-wing parties are racist, and neither all racists parties are left wing. The Nazi party in Germany itself is for health care, liberal foreign policy, and public ownership of private property. Hardly conservative.

Again, pathetic, as usual.
Obviously not wanting mass immigration and having a respect for national sovereignty and identity is xenophobic and racist these days. In fact surely anyone who doesn't believe in world gov't and open borders is such, aren't they?
 
No matter how you look at it, the similarities between the BNP and UKIP are striking. Both are xenophobic, blame foreigners for all the problems, and want to get rid of "non British" people.

If i believed UKIP wanted to remove all 'non british' people, i'd be one of those arguing against them [for obvious reasons] but i have seen little proof for this. They want to restore Parliament's soverignty and start regulating immigration ... i agree with both of those.
BNP has explicitly said they don't view non whites as british and wish to remove them
 
If i believed UKIP wanted to remove all 'non british' people, i'd be one of those arguing against them [for obvious reasons] but i have seen little proof for this. They want to restore Parliament's soverignty and start regulating immigration ... i agree with both of those.
BNP has explicitly said they don't view non whites as british and wish to remove them

Are you serious?

Have they really said that openly?
 
Indeed, if they won. Boy, am i in trouble :p

BBC NEWS | Politics | BNP leader defends policy on race

Only white people can be british according to Griffin.
And they all talk about 'repatriation'

That is nuts. Does anyone actually vote for them?

I can't believe people call the south racist and bigoted after seeing that.

I tell yea what Laila, if they succeed you can come live here. We don't care what color or background you come from as long as you like the food.

:cheers:
 
If i believed UKIP wanted to remove all 'non british' people, i'd be one of those arguing against them [for obvious reasons] but i have seen little proof for this. They want to restore Parliament's soverignty and start regulating immigration ... i agree with both of those.
BNP has explicitly said they don't view non whites as british and wish to remove them
are you mixing up legal and illegal immigration.

As a British Subject, I married a Croatian national, do you think that that marriage gave her automatic residency?
 
That is nuts. Does anyone actually vote for them?

I can't believe people call the south racist and bigoted after seeing that.

I tell yea what Laila, if they succeed you can come live here. We don't care what color or background you come from as long as you like the food.

:cheers:

The North are predominentley beginning to vote for them. Disgruntled and pissed off Labour voters are voting for BNP either in protest or they actually believe what they say. That somehow the majority white of this country have become the victims and are oppressed because of multi culturalism.
They have won a council seat and are now apparently some say, going to gain in European.

I know, the south doesn't sound too bad. I'd say it would be less racist than the north because there is such a large concentration of ethnic minorities.

Definitely, US or Canada would be my first choices personally :)
The extreme right is gaining in Europe so it's not just a UK thing ... but look on the bright side Harry, it could be worse. National Front could be winning :shock:
 
That is nuts. Does anyone actually vote for them?

I can't believe people call the south racist and bigoted after seeing that.

I tell yea what Laila, if they succeed you can come live here. We don't care what color or background you come from as long as you like the food.

:cheers:
Yes they do mate, years ago a KKK senior member moved from America to south Wales, he stated that the people there represented his ideals with more conviction than people in the South of your country
 
are you mixing up legal and illegal immigration.

As a British Subject, I married a Croatian national, do you think that that marriage gave her automatic residency?

They don't want no non whites in UK. They hide it behind their suits but they want repatriation of all legal citizens who are non white as much as illegal immigrants.

I'd assume so, but i have never gone through such a process. You tell me.
 
Yes they do mate, years ago a KKK senior member moved from America to south Wales, he stated that the people there represented his ideals with more conviction than people in the South of your country

I loved Wales, but heck we even have 'White Nationalists' - Europe headed by some damn ex KKK member.
 
The North are predominentley beginning to vote for them. Disgruntled and pissed off Labour voters are voting for BNP either in protest or they actually believe what they say. That somehow the majority white of this country have become the victims and are oppressed because of multi culturalism.
They have won a council seat and are now apparently some say, going to gain in European.

If I'm not mistaken Labor screwed up really bad, right?

I do try to follow U.K. politics but it gets confusing at times.

I know, the south doesn't sound too bad. I'd say it would be less racist than the north because there is such a large concentration of ethnic minorities.

Its usually pretty nice here.

There are people from all walks of life and places in the world that live in my rural area. We are overall a majority white but it really doesn't make a difference. Everyone gets along quite well.

Definitely, US or Canada would be my first choices personally :)
The extreme right is gaining in Europe so it's not just a UK thing ... but look on the bright side Harry, it could be worse. National Front could be winning :shock:

National Front?

That sounds like a Nazi type group. :no:
 
South Wales is one of the most racist area's I have ever canvassed,

I would be greeted on the doorstep with the mantra of the bigot, "Vote Labour and get a Nxxxxr for a neighbor"
 
South Wales is one of the most racist area's I have ever canvassed,

I would be greeted on the doorstep with the mantra of the bigot, "Vote Labour and get a Nxxxxr for a neighbor"

Holy crap. Who is that N supposed to be? Brown?
Are they not aware our cabinet is all white =D

South hm?
*Makes note to never visit*
Okay, Any other places overly racist?
 
Yes they do mate, years ago a KKK senior member moved from America to south Wales, he stated that the people there represented his ideals with more conviction than people in the South of your country

The Klan is dead here.

I haven't seen anything to do with them here my whole life.
We do have our slack jawed idiots but they are harmless and are dieing off quickly enough.
 
If I'm not mistaken Labor screwed up really bad, right?

I do try to follow U.K. politics but it gets confusing at times.

Govt. is collapsing basically.
Brown reshuffled and clung onto power and managed to save himself from a political coup ... sadly.

National Front?

That sounds like a Nazi type group. :no:

Indeed ... filled with thugs alot of the time.
 
Govt. is collapsing basically.
Brown reshuffled and clung onto power and managed to save himself from a political coup ... sadly.

When it collapses, I'm assuming its just the Parliament right?
All other functions continue on.


Indeed ... filled with thugs alot of the time.

The U.K. is a little smaller than Oregon how do you avoid all the idiots?
 
When it collapses, I'm assuming its just the Parliament right?
All other functions continue on

The U.K. is a little smaller than Oregon how do you avoid all the idiots?

Then the Queen will dissolve Parliament or a new leader would be chosen by the MP's to lead Labour. Consitutionally, they do not have to hold a election for about another year.

I have no idea, racism isn't that big here in London. I have never encountered racism in London. Its always when you leave London to some other parts of UK that it occurs.
 
They don't want no non whites in UK. They hide it behind their suits but they want repatriation of all legal citizens who are non white as much as illegal immigrants.

I'd assume so, but i have never gone through such a process. You tell me.
I was responding to your support for UKIPs regulation statement.

You assume wrongly, We married in the UK, I then started the process 10 yrs ago, they informed my that my wife should leave the country and we should re apply from her home country, it took 4 hard yrs the, help of my friend Dr Brian Iddon Mp to win the fight. That was normal then and it is worse now.
I repeat I was born in this country.

I dont know why you directed your comments about the BNP at the top of your post to me, I probably have more knowledge of them than you admit you have about immigration.


It also gave me grate pleasure to assist in the selection of a very fine female Muslim Candidate to replace Dr Iddon when he retires at the next election.

I also represented him at a Home Office Immigration "road show" 6 yrs ago.
 
Nationalism is not automatically race based or whatnot but it tends to be no matter the ideology..Nazi to Commie.
"Germany for Germans"... "China for China Russia for Russians"... "Americans for USA."
Is not inherently racist or even ethnic based.

Anyway Yes there has been a general push in most European nations especially the east in favor of anti-immigrant cultural superiority based parties.From West to East. Its deeper and more in power polically.
Russia is xenophobic nationalistic and persoanlity based fascism..with a vote occassionally.
Shades in between on the continent.
Ireland/Iceland democratic elected republics.

We live after the great dictators so we shall see if they influence today more then they already have. BUT the Europeans look to be going that way again.

Hitler Among the Cars, 1939 - Adolf Hitler: Up Close - LIFE
Pretty amazing high definition color photos from his photographer they found just recently at LIFE.
 
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Nationalism is not automatically race based or whatnot but it tends to be no matter the ideology..Nazi to Commie.
"Germany for Germans"... "China for China Russia for Russians"... "Americans for USA."
Is not inherently racist or even ethnic based.

Anyway Yes there has been a general push in most European nations especially the east in favor of anti-immigrant cultural superiority based parties.From West to East. Its deeper and more in power polically.
Russia is xenophobic nationalistic and persoanlity based fascism..with a vote occassionally.
Shades in between on the continent.
Ireland/Iceland democratic elected republics.

We live after the great dictators so we shall see if they influence today more then they already have. BUT the Europeans look to be going that way again.

Hitler Among the Cars, 1939 - Adolf Hitler: Up Close - LIFE
Pretty amazing high definition color photos from his photographer they found just recently at LIFE.

I'm personally always skeptical of nationalistic anything, although I can understand why U.K. residents may favor them over the EU supporting parties.

If they leave race out of it, it wouldn't be a big deal.
 
I was responding to your support for UKIPs regulation statement.

You assume wrongly, We married in the UK, I then started the process 10 yrs ago, they informed my that my wife should leave the country and we should re apply from her home country, it took 4 hard yrs the, help of my friend Dr Brian Iddon Mp to win the fight. That was normal then and it is worse now.
I repeat I was born in this country.

I said i agree with Parliament's soverignty and immigration limits. I didn't say i support them by voting for them. I agree with many of the Green's policies, doesn't mean i'd support them.

Under a Labour Government
Why is your dislike not directed at them then?
 
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