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Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting violence

Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

Radio host Hal Turner has been taken into custody and arrested for inciting violence after he blogged that Connecticut Catholics need to take up arms against 2 lawmakers and a state ethics official. Here is what Turner posted in his blog:

My question to everyone is the following: Where does free speech end and hate speech begin?

In this country we do not have hate speech laws. You who claims to be a conservative shouldn't support such laws.

Hate speech - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The United States federal government and state governments are broadly forbidden by the First Amendment of the Constitution from restricting speech. See, e.g., Gitlow v. New York (1925), incorporating the free speech clause. Generally speaking, the First Amendment prohibits governments from regulating the content of speech, subject to a few recognized exceptions such as defamation[37] and incitement to riot.[38] Even in cases where speech encourages illegal violence, instances of incitement qualify as criminal only if the threat of violence is imminent.[39] This strict standard prevents prosecution of many cases of incitement, including prosecution of those advocating violent opposition to the government, and those exhorting violence against racial, ethnic, or gender minorities. See, e.g., Yates v. United States (1957), Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969).
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

Uhm, what does hannity have to do with this?

Nothing. But it's fun connecting Republicans/Conservatives who espouse fear and hatred with one of their own even if he/she doesn't speak as loud and venomously as his/her contemporaries. :lol:
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

In this country we do not have hate speech laws. You who claims to be a conservative shouldn't support such laws.

Hate speech - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The United States federal government and state governments are broadly forbidden by the First Amendment of the Constitution from restricting speech. See, e.g., Gitlow v. New York (1925), incorporating the free speech clause. Generally speaking, the First Amendment prohibits governments from regulating the content of speech, subject to a few recognized exceptions such as defamation[37] and incitement to riot.[38] Even in cases where speech encourages illegal violence, instances of incitement qualify as criminal only if the threat of violence is imminent.[39] This strict standard prevents prosecution of many cases of incitement, including prosecution of those advocating violent opposition to the government, and those exhorting violence against racial, ethnic, or gender minorities. See, e.g., Yates v. United States (1957), Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969).

If violence is being incited by a source, then that source must be detained. In this case, it was a man telling people to attack three specific people. The safety of those people overrides free speech, sorry.

If someone got on the radio and started demanding that their audience bomb another building in NYC, that person would be dragged away in an instant.

Freedom if speech has limits when it comes to public safety. It's why you can't yell fire in a theatre and cite the 1st Amendment when you get arrested.
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

Radio host Hal Turner has been taken into custody and arrested for inciting violence after he blogged that Connecticut Catholics need to take up arms against 2 lawmakers and a state ethics official. Here is what Turner posted in his blog:

My question to everyone is the following: Where does free speech end and hate speech begin? The First Amendment is fine and dandy, but when you advocate killing, you have gone over the line, and your rights to free speech end right there.

Article is here.

He may have felt oppressed. Killing your oppressors has a long and storied history.

There is no such thing as a hate crime. It is either a crime or it is not.

Inciting violence is cheap.
 
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Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

If violence is being incited by a source, then that source must be detained. In this case, it was a man telling people to attack three specific people. The safety of those people overrides free speech, sorry.

If someone got on the radio and started demanding that their audience bomb another building in NYC, that person would be dragged away in an instant.

Inciting violence is not hate speech.
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

Inciting violence is not hate speech.

Well given the laws we have it depends on what group the "inciting violence" upon is.

If a group of KKK members tell their people to go out and kill blacks, indeed it is hate speech.
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

Inciting violence is not hate speech.

"Radio host Hal Turner has been taken into custody and arrested for inciting violence after he blogged that Connecticut Catholics need to take up arms against 2 lawmakers and a state ethics official."

He wasn't arrested for hate speech, but inciting violence.
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

Well given the laws we have it depends on what group the "inciting violence" upon is.

If a group of KKK members tell their people to go out and kill blacks, indeed it is hate speech.

I would hope not. I would hope laws against inciting violence would be strict enough when it happens to anyone that special designations wouldn't be necessary for each little group.
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

"Radio host Hal Turner has been taken into custody and arrested for inciting violence after he blogged that Connecticut Catholics need to take up arms against 2 lawmakers and a state ethics official."

He wasn't arrested for hate speech, but inciting violence.
[/QUOTE]

How does that no support my assertion that hate speech is not legal in the US?
 
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Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

Well given the laws we have it depends on what group the "inciting violence" upon is.

If a group of KKK members tell their people to go out and kill blacks, indeed it is hate speech.

They wouldn't be arrested for hate speech, if they were arrested it would be for inciting violence. I could be wrong but there is no case were terrorist wearing sheets were arrested for saying " We must killz us some of them niggers" Or Iz wants yous alls to goes out and murders some niggers".
 
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Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

Rallying people to protest is one thing. Rallying people to kill others simply because you don't agree with their politics or whatever is another. This guy is an extremist idiot and deserves to be locked up. When you advocate violence and even death against others you go outside the realms of free speech.

Turner is scum nothing more, him and his thugs were in my area a few years back when a fight broke out in one of the high schools between a black kid and a white kid. The black kid won and both students were suspended but the white kids mother had a contact with a local neo-nazi group who had contacts with Turner.
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

Well given the laws we have it depends on what group the "inciting violence" upon is.

If a group of KKK members tell their people to go out and kill blacks, indeed it is hate speech.

Meh. Its just speech. The keyword is kill which is a crime period. There is no need for it to have a special type of distinction. Murder is murder regardless of the motivation behind it. To label it a hate crime speaks to the thinking behind it and we dont have mindreaders yet.
images




All we have to go on is actions.
 
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Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

Meh. Its just speech. The keyword is kill which is a crime period. There is no need for it to have a special type of distinction. Murder is murder regardless of the motivation behind it. To label it a hate crime speaks to the thinking behind it and we dont have mindreaders yet.
images




All we have to go on is actions.
I agree, hate speech laws are illegal in the US and should remain that way. Hate crime laws should be illegal too because it just turns a group of people into a protected class. I don't think there should be any incitement laws either. Incitement and hate speech laws would mean the man who drew those Mohamed cartoons would be arrested for hate speech and inciting muslims to act like animals.
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole


How does that no support my assertion that hate speech is not legal in the US?[/QUOTE]

That should have been "How does that no support my assertion that hate speech laws is not legal in the US?"
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

It's illegal to incite violence, which is exactly what he did. And yes, encouraging people to perpetrate acts of violence against others is inciting violence. Free speech has nothing to do with it. You are the only person here who is arguing that he didn't incite violence.
The question was, Where does free speech end and hate speech begin?
Free speech does not end. Ever!
You can put the man in jail, but he is still entitled to his opinion and freedom to speak it.

There's a fine line between his words and actually inciting violence. ie; providing information or resources for someone to carry out his ideas. You cannot have me arrested for threatening to beat you up or even asking my big brother to do so. (inciting violence?) The act has to be committed.
The man was talking hateful trash, but they arrested him without committing a crime. The man did not say go commit the crime, he spoke in general terms, as if it could be committed. Just like everyone of us have heard at some point in our lives You're dead, I'm going kill you, him or whomever.
I do not agree or support this man or what he said my arguement is Free speech should
never be taken away from anyone.
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

The question was, Where does free speech end and hate speech begin?
Free speech does not end. Ever!

Except where that speech begins conspiring to commit crime. Incitement of violence is not free speech.

You can put the man in jail, but he is still entitled to his opinion and freedom to speak it.

This was not an opinion. It was a call to arms against specific people.

There's a fine line between his words and actually inciting violence. ie; providing information or resources for someone to carry out his ideas.

He offered the bullets and named names.

You cannot have me arrested for threatening to beat you up or even asking my big brother to do so. (inciting violence?)

I call bull****. There are charges of uttering threats, verbal assault, issuing written threats, etc. Yes, I can have a you arrested for threatening to beat me up and I can have you arrested for asking your big brother to do so, also. It's called conspiracy.

The act has to be committed.

No, it does not.

The man was talking hateful trash, but they arrested him without committing a crime. The man did not say go commit the crime, he spoke in general terms, as if it could be committed. Just like everyone of us have heard at some point in our lives You're dead, I'm going kill you, him or whomever.
I do not agree or support this man or what he said my arguement is Free speech should
never be taken away from anyone.

Uttering threats is not free speech. Period.
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

Apparently you did not read the article.
It was not incitement, he did not "tell" people to do it.
He did not "call" people to arms, he expressed his opinion.
He did not "offer" bullets, but he did mention names.
It's not conspiracy, it was one (1) mans opinion.
The last two you mention is just your opinion.
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

Apparently you did not read the article.

Apparently, you think this qualifies as debate but it doesn't.

The article says the same thing for me that it does for you. The facts are the same for me, you, and the judicial system that issued the warrant.

You simply don't understand the law. Uttering threats and communicating threats through written word are both crimes. Get over it or write your congressman about it.
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

Well, Hannity isn't the Good Reverend, so already he's at a disadvantage. :lol:



That should be your sig quote!


I thanked your quote for the tribute that was paid to the Good Reverend's Greatness! :thumbs: :mrgreen:


I disagree. I think that people can be friends and not necessarily agree on everything.


Of course they can. This to me however goes a bit further than that.



I don't agree with his pick either, but I still don't think that makes him a bad person.


What's this I am hearing, she is pro-life? :lol:



We shall see. I'm reserving my judgment.


one, two, three, four, how many examples do you need to judge?



Yes, I do live in Montana. And I'm not saying that black people dwell on it. Like I said, people shouldn't bury their heads in the sand and completely pretend it didn't happen. It was horrible, but it's too important to forget or erase.



I held no slaves. I know no slaves. And the black folk I know and am friends with, weren't slaves either. Hell, I really didn't even think of them as "black people", people are people to me....

to your position. They have no standing to be mad at me any more than I have standing to be mad at the British, for An Gorta Mór. Should I hold the brits for "40 acres and a mule" because my family escaped An Gorta Mór because they prohibited irish from land ownership during An Drochshaol? (that's the potato famine, if you don't speak Gaelic.)


I don't think so. it makes little sense to me.




I don't consider being mindful of the past and never forgetting slavery to be a victim. Maybe that's just me though.



Two different things. Remembering the past, sure, absolutley. using it as a crutch? fomenting hatred.
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

Nothing. But it's fun connecting Republicans/Conservatives who espouse fear and hatred with one of their own even if he/she doesn't speak as loud and venomously as his/her contemporaries. :lol:





Are you auditioning for one of dclxvinoise's noise projects? :lol:


I.e. huh? :rofl
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

Apparently, you think this qualifies as debate but it doesn't.

The article says the same thing for me that it does for you. The facts are the same for me, you, and the judicial system that issued the warrant.

You simply don't understand the law. Uttering threats and communicating threats through written word are both crimes. Get over it or write your congressman about it.
You picked at my post line by line to create a debate. I simply said and continue to say, free speech is free speech. That is my point!
I don't care how you feel you want to respond. Quit your whining and crying, because you don't agree with me!
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

You picked at my post line by line to create a debate. I simply said and continue to say, free speech is free speech. That is my point!
I don't care how you feel you want to respond. Quit your whining and crying, because you don't agree with me!

Uh...you do know this is a debate site right. You know, the point being to argue your points. No one is whining here and it is kind of expected we'll disagree.

You don't know the difference between free speech and criminal utterance of threats. That's ok. You'll learn or you won't. Either way, you need to thicken your skin or take your little emo act elsewhere. We argue here. It's what we're here for, missy.
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

Well it's in the article title which is a BN requirement.

And it shows Hannity pals around with terrorists.

That will come back to haunt him if he ever has Sara Palin on the show.

Better watch out Sean, she's very good at pointing that out.
 
Re: Conservative radio host popular onetime Hannity guest charged with inciting viole

There's a world of difference between free speech and inciting violence against others. The moment you advocate violence or killing of others, your free speech rights end. Turner should have been smart enough to know that. The man is a buffoon.

If there was no violence committed as a result of his words, how can he be arrested for inciting violence? Nothing was incited. I don't think what he said was over the top at all, not even a big deal worth talking about.
 
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