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Operation Rescue adviser helped Tiller suspect track doctor's court dates

hazlnut

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I don't want to unfairly associate Scott Roeder with any pro-life group or organization, but this story definitely raises some eyebrows about Operation Rescue-- or, at the very least, this one particular advisor.

Operation Rescue adviser helped Tiller suspect track doctor's court dates

At the time of Roeder’s arrest Sunday afternoon along Interstate 35 in Johnson County, a television station captured the vehicle on video. There on the dashboard was a note that read “Cheryl” and “Op Rescue” with a phone number.

Cheryl Sullenger, senior policy adviser for Operation Rescue out of Wichita, said Tuesday that she has spoken to Roeder in the past, but she said he would initiate the contact. She said she hasn’t had any recent contact with him.

Sullenger served about two years in prison after pleading guilty to conspiring to bomb an abortion clinic in California in 1988. She has since renounced violent action.

I certainly hope the police are questioning this woman, checking her phone and computer records etc.
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

I don't want to unfairly associate Scott Roeder with any pro-life group or organization, but this story definitely raises some eyebrows about Operation Rescue-- or, at the very least, this one particular advisor.

Operation Rescue adviser helped Tiller suspect track doctor's court dates



I certainly hope the police are questioning this woman, checking her phone and computer records etc.

With the proper warrants, I must emphasize. It applies to this administration as well as to Bush's.
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

Prohibitionists are a dangerous cult.

Especially after they get their way.

Rational people must unite against all their flavors, no matter what they're trying to prohibit - alcohol, sex, drugs, rock'n'roll, mere copying of kiddy porn, drunk driving (as opposed to dangerous driving), dog fighting, individual health choices like abortion, or anything else they might come up with. By allowing them to prohibit one, you make it easier for them to prohibit an other.

No victim, no crime!
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

Rational people must unite against all their flavors, no matter what they're trying to prohibit - alcohol, sex, drugs, rock'n'roll, mere copying of kiddy porn, drunk driving (as opposed to dangerous driving), dog fighting, individual health choices like abortion, or anything else they might come up with. By allowing them to prohibit one, you make it easier for them to prohibit an other.

No victim, no crime!

Um... So, kiddie porn, drunk driving, and dog fighting are victimless crimes??



You wanna explain that?
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

Prohibitionists are a dangerous cult.

Especially after they get their way.

Rational people must unite against all their flavors, no matter what they're trying to prohibit - alcohol, sex, drugs, rock'n'roll, mere copying of kiddy porn, drunk driving (as opposed to dangerous driving), dog fighting, individual health choices like abortion, or anything else they might come up with. By allowing them to prohibit one, you make it easier for them to prohibit an other.

No victim, no crime!
Giving libertarianism a good name I see. :roll:
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

Kiddie porn is at most a picture of a crime, not the crime itself.

Causing an accident is a crime, in the sense that you are responsible for damages. Whether that accident was caused because you were drunk, old, young, sleepy, stupid, stressed out about the kids in the back, momentarily destructed by a billboard, or whatever else is your problem. In a free society all roads would be privately owned, and the road owners would make whatever rules they see fit to restrict access to those roads, but there's no reason for the law to be involved preemptively.

And dogs don't have rights.


Giving libertarianism a good name I see. :roll:

My allegiance is to the pursuit of objective truth, not popularity.
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

Kiddie porn is at most a picture of a crime, not the crime itself.

Causing an accident is a crime, in the sense that you are responsible for damages. Whether that accident was caused because you were drunk, old, young, sleepy, stupid, stressed out about the kids in the back, momentarily destructed by a billboard, or whatever else is your problem. In a free society all roads would be privately owned, and the road owners would make whatever rules they see fit to restrict access to those roads, but there's no reason for the law to be involved preemptively.

And dogs don't have rights.




My allegiance is to the pursuit of objective truth, not popularity.
So libertarianism does not seek truth?
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

Kiddie porn is at most a picture of a crime, not the crime itself.

Causing an accident is a crime, in the sense that you are responsible for damages. Whether that accident was caused because you were drunk, old, young, sleepy, stupid, stressed out about the kids in the back, momentarily destructed by a billboard, or whatever else is your problem. In a free society all roads would be privately owned, and the road owners would make whatever rules they see fit to restrict access to those roads, but there's no reason for the law to be involved preemptively.

And dogs don't have rights.




My allegiance is to the pursuit of objective truth, not popularity.

Kiddie porn is not a victimless crime, as it would not exist if there was not a market for it. IMHO, those who download kiddie porn are just as guilty as those who took the pictures, since they helped contribute to the abuse of the child in the photo by providing the market for it.
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

IT's this flavor fo Libertarianism that makes me not embrace them.

Don't pay attention to him. Most of us are not living in a fantasy land like Alex. All political groups have their extreme kooks.
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

Don't pay attention to him. Most of us are not living in a fantasy land like Alex. All political groups have their extreme kooks.

True, but there are other reasons... I'm not a down with a few things they push.. and until the Libertarian party gets serious about winning elections not just making noise, I just cannot support them.
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

True, but there are other reasons... I'm not a down with a few things they push.. and until the Libertarian party gets serious about winning elections not just making noise, I just cannot support them.

I can't believe that I agree with both you and American on the same f'n day. This is some bull****.
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

I can't believe that I agree with both you and American on the same f'n day. This is some bull****.

Hell must have frozen over cause I agree with them too.
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

Kiddie porn is at most a picture of a crime, not the crime itself.

That is completely untrue. Creating, possessing, and sharing child pornography are all crimes. Raping children is a crime as well, but it is completely and utterly untrue to say that the three former acts are not crimes

Causing an accident is a crime, in the sense that you are responsible for damages. Whether that accident was caused because you were drunk, old, young, sleepy, stupid, stressed out about the kids in the back, momentarily destructed by a billboard, or whatever else is your problem.

Again, completely untrue. Causing an accident because you are old....etc is a crime. Causing an accident through driving drunk is a different, more serious crime.

In a free society all roads would be privately owned, and the road owners would make whatever rules they see fit to restrict access to those roads, but there's no reason for the law to be involved preemptively.

Well, here on earth things work a bit differently

And dogs don't have rights.

Cruelty to animals is still a crime

How old are you? You seem to have zero grasp of how the criminal justice system works
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

I have to admit the only reason I am a member of the Constitution party over the Libertarian party is they have some unrealistic expectations about to many issues, as stated above by other posters.
 
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Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

This thread has done the impossible. Liberal or conservative, democrat or republican, we all agree on something. Child porn is illegal and bad and any one caught with it should be prosecuted. Hurray for unity.
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

Kiddie porn is at most a picture of a crime, not the crime itself.

How exactly is kiddie porn a victimless crime? Do you not think that the person taking the picture in the first place is committing a crime? Do you not think that taking the picture could obviously be quite traumatizing for the child or children involved?
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

True, but there are other reasons... I'm not a down with a few things they push.. and until the Libertarian party gets serious about winning elections not just making noise, I just cannot support them.

Many libertarians are quite serious about winning. The system is purposefully set up against third parties, however, so it's tough to gain the national presence necessary to really get a message out. But I think it's selling the LP short to say they aren't interested in winning, they happen to have strong principles which can also be a handicap when facing off against a corrupted main party hell bent on maintaining power through exclusion and other underhanded techniques.
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

I have to admit the only reason I am a member of the Constitution party over the Libertarian party is they have some unrealistic expectations about to many issues, as stated above by other posters.
I would have to qualify that by saying that I believe a lot of libertarians want a smaller government than the Founders even envisioned, while I believe constitutionalist are more pure about adhering to the Constitution and the Founder intent.
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

Many libertarians are quite serious about winning. The system is purposefully set up against third parties, however, so it's tough to gain the national presence necessary to really get a message out. But I think it's selling the LP short to say they aren't interested in winning, they happen to have strong principles which can also be a handicap when facing off against a corrupted main party hell bent on maintaining power through exclusion and other underhanded techniques.

It's not not just the way you're selling your product. At the end of the day what you're selling is just as important and it seems to me that when anybody dares to suggest that maybe pulling out of the U.N. isn't that great of an idea in a 21st century world, Libertarians get all self righteous and start talking about liberty and freedom like they're selling the best thing since toilet rolls. Libertarians are basically the group that both Liberals and Conservatives stay away from because there are just so many things that they seem to deal with from the perspective of a 5 year old. Don't like the UN? Well then obviously the solution is to leave. Don't like the IRS? Obviously the solution is to get rid of it. Drugs? Legalize them all because, well, all drugs are the same. Roads? Privatize them and let companies run because obviously they have the concerns of poor people who travel in mind. These are just some of the few things I've seen Libertarians advocate on more then one occasion and I've found that if Liberals and Conservatives agree on anything definitively is that Libertarians embody the radicalism of both groups without burning flags or waving them non stop. You guys are like that cousin we can't stand but have to say hi to anyways.
 
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Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

libertarianism bases itself on the restriction of government. The reason I think that some "conservatives" and "liberals" stay away from libertarians is because the libertarian will call for abuses to be done away with which is supported by one of the sides. But in the end, libertarians tend to stick to their guns and ideology; which can't necessarily be said of the main parties. While there is certainly an amount of extremism, I think the overall belief in limited government which is not echoed by either "conservatives" or "liberals" is well worth the investment of time and effort to promote. Reasonable, limited, and constrained government is not outlandish and only the libertarians call for it. There is a wide breadth of specific ideology out there in the libertarian party, but the fundamental we all agree on is that government needs to be constrained, that the People are in charge and must be recognized as the sovereigns. I don't think it's such the bad thing you're trying to make it out to be.
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

libertarianism bases itself on the restriction of government. The reason I think that some "conservatives" and "liberals" stay away from libertarians is because the libertarian will call for abuses to be done away with which is supported by one of the sides. But in the end, libertarians tend to stick to their guns and ideology; which can't necessarily be said of the main parties. While there is certainly an amount of extremism, I think the overall belief in limited government which is not echoed by either "conservatives" or "liberals" is well worth the investment of time and effort to promote. Reasonable, limited, and constrained government is not outlandish and only the libertarians call for it. There is a wide breadth of specific ideology out there in the libertarian party, but the fundamental we all agree on is that government needs to be constrained, that the People are in charge and must be recognized as the sovereigns. I don't think it's such the bad thing you're trying to make it out to be.

No, the reason people stay away from Libertarians is this

Whether that accident was caused because you were drunk, old, young, sleepy, stupid, stressed out about the kids in the back, momentarily destructed by a billboard, or whatever else is your problem. In a free society all roads would be privately owned, and the road owners would make whatever rules they see fit to restrict access to those roads, but there's no reason for the law to be involved preemptively.

That's just plain naive and unworkable. Drunk driving should be a crime. Libertarians tend to be just as naive and idealistic as communists, with similarly Utopian views. And, just like communism, the systems that most of the libertarians I've ever talked to support are completely unrealistic
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

No, the reason people stay away from Libertarians is this

That's just plain naive and unworkable. Drunk driving should be a crime. Libertarians tend to be just as naive and idealistic as communists, with similarly Utopian views. And, just like communism, the systems that most of the libertarians I've ever talked to support are completely unrealistic

Well they don't all advocate that. More libertarians advocate legalizing all drugs saying that it will by way of miracle reduce addiction and then drug cartels will be taxed and...... That to me seems 10x as idealistic and ridiculous. It's basically a statement by people who know nothing about the way the drug market works and how it's related to 10 million other factors.
 
Re: Operation Rescue helped Scott Roeder

I would have to qualify that by saying that I believe a lot of libertarians want a smaller government than the Founders even envisioned, while I believe constitutionalist are more pure about adhering to the Constitution and the Founder intent.

Pretty much sums it up for me as well.

Thanks :cool:
 
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