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Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder

Redress said:
Now you know you would call me on anecdotal evidence. Overall, college campuses are very safe, calling for guns on campuses to prevent a madman who 99.9999999999 % or so of college students will never encounter is silly.
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anecdotal yes. however, i think your statistics are irrelevant to my "empirical data" and potentially being that one.

I have shown statistically, that it hurts no one to have guns around by law abiding citizens, Therefore, if one chose to carry, to prevent from being that .000000000009%, what is your argument against CCW on campus?


I am not convinced your statistic is correct either.
 
Caine said:
Yeah, bad in the hands of douchebags.

Fortunately my own made up statistics say that 98% of people who have the balls to own guns are not douchebags when it comes to guns.

I guess Im glad there are douchebags that don't have the balls to own guns.
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I say that 97 % of the statistics I make up are credible though!
 
Redress said:
Now you know you would call me on anecdotal evidence. Overall, college campuses are very safe, calling for guns on campuses to prevent a madman who 99.9999999999 % or so of college students will never encounter is silly.
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And the probability of this actually occurring is rising by the second.

People are targeting Schools more often than Malls. Im having a hard time figuring out why this is occurring than for no other reason that the crazies that want to kill people are picking what I would consider a "soft target".
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
anecdotal yes. however, i think your statistics are irrelevant to my "empirical data" and potentially being that one.

I have shown statistically, that it hurts no one to have guns around by law abiding citizens, Therefore, if one chose to carry, to prevent from being that .000000000009%, what is your argument against CCW on campus?


I am not convinced your statistic is correct either.
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The only statistic that matters right now if that the Wings are up two games to none!

I am not really arguing against guns much here. I do think guns on campuses and churches and courthouses are bad, but that is about it. I am arguing against the idea that people should worry or change what they do in reaction to an occasional lunatic.
 
Caine said:
And the probability of this actually occurring is rising by the second.

People are targeting Schools more often than Malls. Im having a hard time figuring out why this is occurring than for no other reason that the crazies that want to kill people are picking what I would consider a "soft target".
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You got some reliable numbers on that? I had a hard time finding current numbers.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
anecdotal yes. however, i think your statistics are irrelevant to my "empirical data" and potentially being that one.

I have shown statistically, that it hurts no one to have guns around by law abiding citizens, Therefore, if one chose to carry, to prevent from being that .000000000009%, what is your argument against CCW on campus?


I am not convinced your statistic is correct either.
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Well my golly Reverand! You don't know!

Guns are evil and kids will go crazy if they can carry guns on school.

If they don't like their teacher, they will just blow his/her head off!

If they get dissed by another student, they will resort to taking shots at him!

Lord only knows what will happen!
 
Redress said:
The only statistic that matters right now if that the Wings are up two games to none!
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hear! Hear!

I hate the pens with a passion ever since they tanked seasons to get lemieux, then 20 years later to get crosby and malkin......

Besides Detroit has Rafalski.... this devils fan, appreciates Rafalski. ;)


[qupte]
I am not really arguing against guns much here. I do think guns on campuses and churches and courthouses are bad, but that is about it. I am arguing against the idea that people should worry or change what they do in reaction to an occasional lunatic.[/QUOTE]


Why though, why bad in the most innocent of places where the wolf would prey?


to me is there any place where a sheepdog needs to be armed than here?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
hear! Hear!

I hate the pens with a passion ever since they tanked seasons to get lemieux, then 20 years later to get crosby and malkin......

Besides Detroit has Rafalski.... this devils fan, appreciates Rafalski. ;)


I am not really arguing against guns much here. I do think guns on campuses and churches and courthouses are bad, but that is about it. I am arguing against the idea that people should worry or change what they do in reaction to an occasional lunatic.


Why though, why bad in the most innocent of places where the wolf would prey?


to me is there any place where a sheepdog needs to be armed than here?
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Good to hear you are sensible about hockey!

The wolf does not seem to be preying in these places though. Unless you can find some statistics to prove otherwise, it seems to be something that is not happening to hardly anyone. A couple of high profile cases, and nothing else that I can find.
 
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Redress said:
Good to hear you are sensible about hockey!

The wolf does not seem to be preying in these places though. Unless you can find some statistics to prove otherwise, it seems to be something that is not happening to hardly anyone. A couple of high profile cases, and nothing else that I can find.
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An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of DO ABSOLUTELY JACK **** NOTHING.
 
Redress said:
Good to hear you are sensible about hockey!
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I had a stick put in my face by a goofball in a full cage.... I wasn't much "sensible" after that. :mrgreen:

The wolf does not seem to be preying in these places though. Unless you can find some statistics to prove otherwise, it seems to be something that is not happening to hardly anyone. A couple of high profile cases, and nothing else that I can find.
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I can happen anywhere. if the mere possession that I have proven has not had any ill effects whats the harm? especially what is the harm, that .00000001% when it does?
 
Caine said:
An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of DO ABSOLUTELY JACK **** NOTHING.
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Why? Do nothing is working pretty dam well. Along with campus security that is.
 
Redress said:
Why? Do nothing is working pretty dam well. Along with campus security that is.
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Tell that to those that have died.

Something is always better than nothing........
 
Caine said:
Tell that to those that have died.

Something is always better than nothing........
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It is impossible to create total security. There is always some risk. On college campuses, that risk is almost nil.
 
Redress said:
It is impossible to create total security. There is always some risk. On college campuses, that risk is almost nil.
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Lets add Suburban Shopping Mall, or anywhere else in the world for that matter to the list.

Mass Murders outside of HUGE terrorist attacks have occurred more at Educational Facilities in the last Decade than anywhere else.
 
Caine said:
Lets add Suburban Shopping Mall, or anywhere else in the world for that matter to the list.

Mass Murders outside of HUGE terrorist attacks have occurred more at Educational Facilities in the last Decade than anywhere else.
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Source?

.....
 
Redress said:
Now you know you would call me on anecdotal evidence. Overall, college campuses are very safe, calling for guns on campuses to prevent a madman who 99.9999999999 % or so of college students will never encounter is silly.
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Source?
...
 
Caine said:
Source?
...
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I made it up. I am the only one who has sourced murder rates on college campuses in this thread tho.

Sorry if it was misleading, I thought it was outrageous enough to be obviously exaggerated.
 
Redress said:
I made it up. I am the only one who has sourced murder rates on college campuses in this thread tho.

Sorry if it was misleading, I thought it was outrageous enough to be obviously exaggerated.
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Now do you see how demanding source every time you disagree with someone is such a cop out?
 
Caine said:
Now do you see how demanding source every time you disagree with someone is such a cop out?
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Ummm, I did not do that. I demand a source when some one makes a claim I find suspect. I expect people to do the same to me. Or are you saying you made up your claim that "Mass Murders outside of HUGE terrorist attacks have occurred more at Educational Facilities in the last Decade than anywhere else"?
 
Redress said:
Ummm, I did not do that. I demand a source when some one makes a claim I find suspect. I expect people to do the same to me. Or are you saying you made up your claim that "Mass Murders outside of HUGE terrorist attacks have occurred more at Educational Facilities in the last Decade than anywhere else"?
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Im basing that statement off of the many school shootings we have experienced in the last decade that have made national news.

No other individually identifiable classification of area had made such an impact in the national spotlight.
 
Caine said:
Im basing that statement off of the many school shootings we have experienced in the last decade that have made national news.

No other individually identifiable classification of area had made such an impact in the national spotlight.
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I am interested in stats. How many die per year? What is the overall death rate? Without things like that, we are just making guesses. The most recent year I found numbers on, there was a total of zero murders on campuses.
 
Redress said:
The only statistic that matters right now if that the Wings are up two games to none!

I am not really arguing against guns much here. I do think guns on campuses and churches and courthouses are bad, but that is about it. I am arguing against the idea that people should worry or change what they do in reaction to an occasional lunatic.
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I agree with this to a point, but on both sides.

I remember when you had recent killings involving a bunch of guns people started coming out of the woodwork saying we needed more gun laws.

It'd be like looking at this and going...

"We need to ban knives! Knives kill people! This guy probably walked int oa Bed Bath and Beyond and got his killing tool. Knives are made to stab things, which kills things, so they must be banned cause this person used one".
 
You got maybe a cafeteria full of students. What situation would be easier to shoot somebody who is shooting people? Odds are he's not even looking your way. You just shoot him.

He could kill 50 people before police arrive. Either he's going to run out of bullets or somebody has to shoot him.
 
stevenb said:
Horrifying Details Emerge in Hearing on Virginia Tech Murder - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com


I'm so very glad that they highlight the fact that this guy called 911...

So awesome that everyone ran or stood around while he cut her head off.

If I didn't have my gun (fat chance)... I would have beat this guy to death with a ****ing chair, or some other blunt object.. but I SURE as hell wouldn't have stood around and watched him cut her head off.


I wonder when the first lawsuit will pop up... because the school that won't let students protect themselves cannot provide adequate protections for those who are attacked will be.

I hope this little Asian girl's family sues the **** out of VT for making her another defenseless little sheep... and letting her get slaughtered.
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I'm all for carrying guns, concealed or open it doesn't matter I think people should be free to do both without having to get permits from the government. However, I also do not think this can be VT's fault at all, they didn't control this bastard. The only person at fault is the one who committed the crime. Maybe if you allowed guns someone with a gun maybe would have been at the right place at the right time and maybe would have done something about it. Allowing guns doesn't gaurantee that people will carry and fight back. Look at what happened in the cafeteria. You wouldn't even need guns to have stopped that, or even if you couldn't stop the murder stopping the murderer would have been easily accomplished with just a few of the people who ran out screaming for their own life.

I will argue that college students should be allowed to carry on campus. I will say that it's best always to have the option to fight back, and that it's usually the right course to take as well. But I won't say that VT shares any guilt for the sins committed by this crazy bastard. Nor do I think there can be any proper lawsuit which comes from it. It's a sad and unfortunate event; and that's that.
 
Ikari said:
I'm all for carrying guns, concealed or open it doesn't matter I think people should be free to do both without having to get permits from the government. However, I also do not think this can be VT's fault at all, they didn't control this bastard. The only person at fault is the one who committed the crime. Maybe if you allowed guns someone with a gun maybe would have been at the right place at the right time and maybe would have done something about it. Allowing guns doesn't gaurantee that people will carry and fight back. Look at what happened in the cafeteria. You wouldn't even need guns to have stopped that, or even if you couldn't stop the murder stopping the murderer would have been easily accomplished with just a few of the people who ran out screaming for their own life.

I will argue that college students should be allowed to carry on campus. I will say that it's best always to have the option to fight back, and that it's usually the right course to take as well. But I won't say that VT shares any guilt for the sins committed by this crazy bastard. Nor do I think there can be any proper lawsuit which comes from it. It's a sad and unfortunate event; and that's that.
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if I'm actively denied the right to protect myself.. those that are denying that right are responsible for my safety. As they're the ones that put me in to that situation.
 
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